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Isn’t the fact that all these artists play all the time in NY kind of an argument FOR the genre’s popularity? If they’re really booking Black Madonna several times a year it’s because people keep turning up to see her.
Its NY man, you can basically go out and find a venue playing any genre you want on any given night. We still have places you can go see nu metal. I think Black Madonna and techno is more popular than that these days. But availability does not equal popularity.
Pretty sure all of these artists produce their own music ftr.
I would consider twice in five years an acceptable amount and would call anything less than $50 a cheap ticket. Why pay $400 for Cut Copy though? Because they were paired with Eminem and Gaslight Anthem? Confidence Man? 2 Chainz? It is nice to have different artists together in one place - even ones that take up residency in Brooklyn. It’s cool to have sure thing acts paired with ones they might not be pooled with elsewhere. No one really goes to beer festivals and complains about all of the beer from local breweries.
Pretty sure all of these artists produce their own music ftr.
I would consider twice in five years an acceptable amount and would call anything less than $50 a cheap ticket. Why pay $400 for Cut Copy though? Because they were paired with Eminem and Gaslight Anthem? Confidence Man? 2 Chainz? It is nice to have different artists together in one place - even ones that take up residency in Brooklyn. It’s cool to have sure thing acts paired with ones they might not be pooled with elsewhere. No one really goes to beer festivals and complains about all of the beer from local breweries.
Post by 3post1jack1 on Jun 15, 2018 9:40:01 GMT -5
as long as we are talking about The Black Madonna, this is a great mini-documentary on her rise in popularity. Filmed a couple years ago, it touches on a variety of themes, one of which is the frustration of being a female artist in the dance music world. In the short time since this doc was released it's been exciting to see that many of my favorite new DJs/selectors/producers happen to be female. I hope to see more of them start to hit the main stage in the years to come.
It's also a testament to how hard you have to work to raise your profile in this world. From a high level it just looks like your playing records, but it takes a lot of work to develop and maintain an understanding of what people want to hear on the dance floor, and even more work to find those unique songs that will make people go crazy. Not to mention you have to do this, and travel and perform at shitty clubs and in shitty timeslots while getting paid nothing for several years, and even then there is zero guarantee you will ever make a living at it, much less become popular.
one more video:
the first track here is a great example of the type of brilliant selection she is capable of. the way she starts out super chill then blasts in that vocal sample, before the buildup and dropping into that completely bananas acid beat. makes me insane.
Soooooo anyway....between Lil Wayne, St. Vincent and SZA, who do we think is pre headlining the main stage and who's closing the side stage?
Interesting! I feel like with Wayne's far to the left special position on the lineup, he's either one of those. My gut thinks he's going to be pre-headline, and SZA now closes Pavilion.
Post by Fozzie Bear on Jun 15, 2018 10:28:32 GMT -5
I'm digging The Black Madonna love here. I'll admit: it's hard for a lot of artists to catch my attention for an hour or even two hours. I've seen The Black Madonna many times, and each and every time she fills me with utter glee. She's amazing.
I think she also represents a reason why underground dance music is great right now: women and people of color have more accessible points of entry. The Black Madonna is one of the top women in the underground right now, and she doesn't look like a pin-up doll. Compare to the women of indie/alt rock or even pop: CHVRCHES, Bully, Tash Sultana, Dua Lipa, Bebe Rexha, Jorja Smith, Cardi B, etc. While the pool for women has grown more diverse, there's still an expectation for how you should look.
Compare to the women of the underground: The Black Madonna, Peggy Gou, K-Hand, UMFANG, Volvox, Shanti Celeste, Avalon Emerson, Jane Fritz, Josey Rebelle, etc. Women of all shapes and sizes. It doesn't matter how you look—to an extent—the music speaks for itself. And that's pretty cool.
Post by Whereispassionpit on Jun 15, 2018 11:53:43 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is arguing that the electronic artists at Panorama are a massive draw, but neither are the smaller name EDM artists at the other big festivals. Like I'm sure no one bought Panorama tix because of Yaeji, but she might appeal to the people that are going for The XX, in the same way that no one bought tix to Gov Ball for AURORA but she might appeal to people that are going for Halsey. Those niche electronic acts have a place at multi genre festivals if the lineups are well rounded.
What set times do y'all think The WAr On Drugs and Father John Misty will get on Fri? Was hoping to pop over after work to catch them (as much as one can "pop over" to Randalls Island). I assume they'll play back to back around 5-6.
3post1jack1 I’d also respond to you that I think your comment about radio play misses the mark a little. Yes, stuff like Skee Mask isn’t going to pop up on the radio, but EDM never really did either, it took some evolution. You weren’t hearing Daft Punk on the radio, you were hearing Kanye sample Daft Punk on the radio. Eventually guys like SHM and Calvin Harris has radio hits, but they did so with a sound that had evolved significantly from what the genre was doing 5-10 years earlier.
Same was true of the first wave electro boom in the US. Stuff like Moby and Fatboy Slim that were mainstream successful represented a far edge of the total genre, but that mainstream success of a few made the other artists more popular and viable. And guys like OutKast sampling jungle beats played an important role as well.
But their music videos were everywhere same with Basement Jaxx.
3post1jack1 I’d also respond to you that I think your comment about radio play misses the mark a little. Yes, stuff like Skee Mask isn’t going to pop up on the radio, but EDM never really did either, it took some evolution. You weren’t hearing Daft Punk on the radio, you were hearing Kanye sample Daft Punk on the radio. Eventually guys like SHM and Calvin Harris has radio hits, but they did so with a sound that had evolved significantly from what the genre was doing 5-10 years earlier.
Same was true of the first wave electro boom in the US. Stuff like Moby and Fatboy Slim that were mainstream successful represented a far edge of the total genre, but that mainstream success of a few made the other artists more popular and viable. And guys like OutKast sampling jungle beats played an important role as well.
But their music videos were everywhere same with Basement Jaxx.
I don't think anyone is arguing that the electronic artists at Panorama are a massive draw, but neither are the smaller name EDM artists at the other big festivals. Like I'm sure no one bought Panorama tix because of Yaeji, but she might appeal to the people that are going for The XX, in the same way that no one bought tix to Gov Ball for AURORA but she might appeal to people that are going for Halsey. Those niche electronic acts have a place at multi genre festivals if the lineups are well rounded.
What I am saying is: a) these acts arent a draw at all b) they arent playing on an actual stage (its a Kalliope style open air side thing) c) the majority of people who show up to these shows will be disinterested kids passing through.
Therefore kind of a waste to even book them. Its not a good place to see them if you are a fan. Its probably not great if you are the artist.
I dont get the point other than checking off a genre diversity box.
Before I was saying I wish they had scrapped The Point and kept The Parlor; because at least then you would have had a decent sound system with no bleed and some kind of production for these acts.
Post by Launchpad McQuack on Jun 17, 2018 4:32:40 GMT -5
I think the resources spent could have been better used elsewhere.
Instead of booking critically acclaimed but not well known DJs, to play a novelty side show. They could have put that money into booking acts who would draw ppl in.
Maybe they could have given AM or Radiohead better offers to play NY literally a couple of days later than they already are.
Maybe they could have grabbed some buzz acts who are making the rounds like Janelle Monae, Miguel, Virtual Self, Car Seat Headrest, Testpilot, Jungle, Parquet Courts, Rezz, or an Anderson .Paak return set.
Phoenix are doing a run of shows in BK around Panorama. Maybe stick it to Gov Ball and book one of their 2017 headliners 7th or 8th down the card (which is happening at a bunch of other fests already).
Hell aren't My Bloody Valentine literally playing NYC like a week after Panorama too? That would have been a rare booking and their only northeast date.
I dont get the point and think its a waste of resources; especially when the fest is on its last legs due to lack of attendance. I also think that is a completely valid view. Its fine if you disagree with it though.
How about keep all the cool djs and don’t book lame shit like Porter Robinson’s Virtual Self? I would take these “novelty” resources over an Arctic Monkeys set during the TBHC run anyways. That show isn’t exactly sought after and did nothing for a career boost. They would then have to account for an entire STAGE of music somewhere else though. One new subheadliner wouldn’t make up for an entire weekend of excellent dance.
Some people WILL go simply for the inclusion of acts like these. It’s not a flyby stage for drunk high school kids. This isn’t Govball. It’s also not Kaliope and the more you say things like that, the more you seem to not have a clue. Again, I’m sure the bookers knew what they were getting into when they brought in these acts and hoped the top lines would make up for it. Just like the Yuma probably isn’t a primary source for sales, it’s a cool option for music fans and one that very much follows current trends. I can appreciate a festival that doesn’t just go heavy on bro trap and dubstep in 2018. It’s nice to have a designated dance spot that keeps going as opposed to waiting around for that singular hour with Flight Facilities mid-day or whatever.
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2018 8:47:04 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Several of these days are very strong even removing the DJ acts and it’s just not selling. I really think it’s a branding thing at this point. There’s no reason Friday and Sunday shouldn’t be sold out by now on a pure lineup basis but they aren’t.
How about keep all the cool djs and don’t book lame shit like Porter Robinson’s Virtual Self? I would take these “novelty” resources over an Arctic Monkeys set during the TBHC run anyways. That show isn’t exactly sought after and did nothing for a career boost. They would then have to account for an entire STAGE of music somewhere else though. One new subheadliner wouldn’t make up for an entire weekend of excellent dance.
Some people WILL go simply for the inclusion of acts like these. It’s not a flyby stage for drunk high school kids. This isn’t Govball. It’s also not Kaliope and the more you say things like that, the more you seem to not have a clue. Again, I’m sure the bookers knew what they were getting into when they brought in these acts and hoped the top lines would make up for it. Just like the Yuma probably isn’t a primary source for sales, but it is a cool option for music fans. I can appreciate a festival that doesn’t just go heavy on bro trap and dubstep in 2018.
Almost every festival including Coachella, Bonnaroo, Gov Ball, and this festival who tried right up until the last min before being forced to settle on The Killers sought after it.
Maybe not in your eyes. But it most likely would have increased attendance, and then maybe we wouldnt be talking about how this is probably the last year.
"Some people."... how many do you think? 1,500 people who attend those obscure clubs you mentioned? The under 2,000 who went to the techno fest at Gov Island in NY last year? Do you think those people are going to be disappointed when they get there and Floating Points and Yaeji arent playing on an actual stage with visuals, sound from the mainstage is bleeding in, and while most of the folks surrounding them are ppl waiting for their friends to finish in the bathroom?
I was there last year. I know you werent. Its the Kalliope. Most people just go there when nothing they want to see is playing anywhere else and they want to waste time. Barely anyone even has any idea who or what they are listening to.
I dont disagree that its cool to have. I don't think any fest having a side show option is bad because it gives people stuff to do. But its not selling tickets. Its not a great place to see them if you are a fan of these acts. There is not much of a point. They could have used the budget elsewhere.
It’s not the Kaliope. It’s not a toy box that blasts dubstep. Electronic stages all across the world are setup via dj booth + open air. No one’s out here arguing with these events that they are wrong for calling those venues stages but you. They wanted a stage of quality dance and they got it. Some people are going because of that decision. Many more will utilize/appreciate it.
Their other festival failed with MBV in LA and Arctic Monkeys might bring in 7K more tickets, but I’d rather take the risk of providing a stage like The Point and take my losses. Whether some people stand around on their phones at a music festival/don’t know how to interact with the genre is not of my concern. Though to be fair you are basically describing any social setting, but whatever. I’m sure the people who want to dance their ass off specifically to these acts at a festival on a summer day in nyc will get what they want.
Also, I can see why that techno event didn’t work out last year. I wouldn’t deal with the hassle of Randall’s Island for that lineup. This one is much more stacked.
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2018 9:24:54 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Imho the top lines just aren’t that interesting and don’t really do enough to separate themselves from all the other festivals and live events in 2018. At least the point offers a solid option.
Imho the top lines just aren’t that interesting and don’t really do enough to separate themselves from all the other festivals and live events in 2018. At least the point offers a solid option.
I disagree with this. If Friday of Panorama was Friday of Gov ball I think Founders would have sold it out
Imho the top lines just aren’t that interesting and don’t really do enough to separate themselves from all the other festivals and live events in 2018. At least the point offers a solid option.
I disagree with this. If Friday of Panorama was Friday of Gov ball I think Founders would have sold it out
Maybe the bottom lines are just too much of a departure from the stuff on the top? Govball would probably benefit from booking a more similar supporting cast. Plus, their brand goes a long way in the area and seems to dominate the young/first time festie market. I wouldn’t travel for this one though simply because the top lines (for my taste at least) wouldn’t weigh up to the cost. Now if I was in the area I’d be all over it, but they need that outside money with all the competition these days.
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2018 10:58:59 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Post by Fozzie Bear on Jun 17, 2018 13:39:20 GMT -5
On the post of obscure clubs, aren’t clubs like Output, Brooklyn Mirage, Nowadays, Good Room, etc. booking underground acts and doing well more often than not?
