Panorama 2018 - July 27-29

What’s funny is that one can see the majority of the bands on festival lineups in most cities for a 20-30 dollar ticket nowadays. That isn’t exclusive to the electronic genre.

Also feel that a primary purpose for a festival is having all of this great music TOGETHER as opposed to 16 different club shows.

Techno/Electro is not that popular man. You don't have to take it as an insult. You can see it as your taste is superior and you are part of some super secret club if you want. Just facts.

I look at those Point acts and I get they are acclaimed in their genre and all that. But I really wonder what the point even is? These acts will be playing on basically the equivalent of Bonnaroos Kalliope side stage; and while I am sure some ppl will show up to specifically see them, the overwhelming majority of ppl who witness these sets are are going to be kids who have no idea what they are watching; and only there as either a breather or to waste time until Migos come on.

You know, NYC has a techno festival too right? Last year it was on Governors Island. It didn't crack 2k people from what I heard. Not a bad lineup though if you are into that kind of thing. And at least I am sure they played to an engaged crowd.

Agreed, it is more popular than just inforoo. It still is not popular.

You bring up Kolsch, like thats an ace in the hole. I had no idea who he was until a few weeks ago, and only found out from listening to a playlist of Osheaga's undercard.. I post on a music festival message board daily. If I didnt know who he was, do you really think the average attendee does? Do you think they are buying a ticket based on him being on a lineup? Nevermind the fact, he is on the bill for a fest in Montreal which is a totally different market than NY.

The Yuma proves me wrong? All that proves is Coachella is such a brand name they can literally book anyone they want and sell the thing out. Stone Roses and Phoenix headlined it once and sold it out. No other festival can get away with that in this country.

The point I was making is that these acts are not a draw. That is it. Somebody else said on the last page they thought the Sunday would sell out based on the headliners and the electronic acts; and I said the electronic acts are not a draw and you took offense or disagreed or whatever. You just said these shows will have a small crowd. Sweet. We are on the same page. Not sure what your gripe with what I said is.

I was surprised to find so many Yuma acts draw big crowds. Pachanga Boys, Peggy Gou, Talaboman, Avalon Emerson, Michael Mayer all had big crowds, and of course the big names like Jamie Jones and Chris Liebing.

Heck, they gave Black Coffee a Mojave set and be still packed it out.

Techno is great. It is not popular. People don't like super repetitive music. Festivals book it because it nicely rounds out lineups and offers an alternative kind of dance music to EDM.

Smartbar?

Launchpad McQuack I think if you went to Coachella then you would fully get why it’s so successful. As long as they continue to serve well rounded, quality lineups then I will continue to be interested. Like most others, I appreciate when festivals book music I’m into and sure, Southern California is nice in April.

Panorama tried. It didn’t work. That’s fine. Govball will continue to thrive because it books music kids can get lit to in the city. That’s fine too. Didn’t Cut Copy play their own cheap NYC show btw? I’d rather catch that instead of dealing with a crowd like Govball’s or the hassle of a festival day, but that’s just me. Maybe all the Mall Grab fans out there made a similar move? Maybe there’s not that many to begin with? Maybe they should have booked stronger top lines to lure in the traveling techno fan or music nerd? Dunno. I’m definitely not here for the economics of major corporations or festivals I do not attend though. I’m just here for the music. Panorama was an experience I greatly enjoyed, but there are more experiences to be had.

I’m sure the Yuma will be rad again next year and in a few weeks I’ll be at Melt with 20K others who ARE into these genres. Shit, they might not even hit 20K. Either way I have never thought about how much of a profit they’ll turn and do not plan to. As far as my feelings are concerned, I thought the whole purpose of all this was giving our opinion/saying how we feel about fests and things?

I don't think techno is popular at all man. I see no indication that it is poised to blow up; but agree to disagree.

Bringing up Gov Ball is a bit of a what aboutism. But I'll indulge it. Even though guitar indie rock is on a bit of a down swing, it is still vastly more popular than a niche like techno music. I think going forward Gov Ball has to be much more careful in which acts in that genre are placed where on the lineup. But it's not going to be scrapped entirely.

We aren't really talking about Gov Ball, so yeah like in the previous post thats one of those "well what abouts."  But I can explain the difference: Cut Copy played T5 last fall and they did an after show (that sold out immediately). They also were not really an act being pushed as the crux of the lineup or the major draw of the fest.

Gov Ball hung their hat this year on:
Yeah Yeah Yeahs (hometown act, first major NYC show in 5 years; besides a theater date last November that sold out in seconds; and you were lucky if you scored a ticket)
Jack White (first major NYC show in 4 years; other than an album release show at a small venue that sold out in seconds; and the few who got to go were lucky)
Eminem (first major NYC show in 7 years; other than an album release show at a small venue that sold out in seconds; and the few who got to go were lucky)
NERD (first NYC show period in 8 years)
and Travis Scott and Halsey who were there promoting new albums with new productions that hadn't been done anywhere before

Compare that to Panorama's highlights:
Janet Jackson (played 2 arena dates around NYC since just last November)
The Killers (4 arena shows in the area since last fall; and a few more at small venues)
The Weeknd (played 5 different arena shows in the area just in the last year)
Migos (5 arena dates with Drake coming up; also just played Meadows fest a couple months ago)
SZA (if she actually shows up Panorama will be her 7th show in New York since just last August)


Gov Ball had a bunch of major highlights on their lineup that people in the area have not had much of an opportunity to see in years. Compared with Panorama's big draws, who we have had numerous opportunities to see in large venues over the last year. That is the difference there.

I think bringing up Coachella isn't really relevant because they can get away with booking anything they want. Nobody else can. Even AEG's other fests can't; which is why this one is on its last legs and FYF is already done or being forced to rebrand or whatevers going on with that.

Have fun at Melt man. I don't see any problem with you liking whatever flavor of ice cream you want. My point is only that just because it is your favorite does not make it everyone elses too.

great dialogue between Launchpad McQuack and @jonesjupiter, you both make good points.

i'm likely biased since i've gotten into the genre over the past three years or so, but speaking strictly on the subject of techno and tech-house, i do think it is slowly gaining popularity in the United States. not sure about "poised to blow up", if by "blow up" we mean reach the level of popularity EDM did, since techno has pretty much zero popular radio appeal. but i could see it gaining a type of underground grassroots popularity in the US, kind of like the late 90s/early 00s jamband boom, when the top jambands would easily sell out arenas, and jamband festivals would regularly attract 60-80,000 attendees.

there is zero doubt that techno is big business internationally. The Awakenings festival attracts 80,000 fans, if the internet is to be believed, and crowds for big techno names like Carl Cox, Adam Beyer, and Nina Kraviz are huge at non-techno centric international electronic festivals. Techno radio shows are ubiquitous internationally and have been for decade(s).

But even in the US, Movement regularly attracts 35,000 fans, the Resistance stage at Ultra continues to get bigger and always appears well-attended by looking at videos, smaller (5-7,000 attendees) tech-house events like the Dirty Bird Campouts keep popping up, every big EDM festival (like EDC) now has a techno or tech-house centric stage, and we continue to see more accessible tech-house artists like Von Stroke popping up on multi-genre festivals like Bonnaroo. I admit these are small indicators, but they are just that, indicators that maybe this genre is on the rise in the US.

Regarding large multi-genre festivals and techno's place on their lineups, I'm still of the opinion that headliners (and certain big name second line acts) sell tickets, and that a unique and diverse undercard then sells more tickets to more musically discriminating people who are less likely to care as much about a headliner. So if a festival organizer sprinkles a bit of techno into the undercard, I don't think it necessarily hurts their bottom line to give that spot to a techno artist instead of say some small name EDM or pop act that has a ten thousand spotify plays, but it might help their brand to present the more unique and diverse offerings.

Regarding Coachella, they are in the unique position of being able to push the festival culture forward without having to worry about making a profit. They are going to sell out for all the reasons we've discussed ad nauseam, so it is less risky for them to curate a stage of interesting electronic artists, or taking a chance on an interesting headliner. The benefit to them is that if this music does continue to increase in popularity, then they have established themselves as a premiere destination for this type of music to fans, complete with high quality sound and production, and have developed a relationship with the artists over several years that will ensure the artists exposure and I'm assuming a decent paycheck for the artists and the artists' teams.

Other festivals, like Panorama, may try to do this and fail. They may fail for any number of reasons, but I appreciate them trying. It can't just be Coachella pushing the culture forward. Looking at the festival market from a high level, less established festivals have to provide these artists exposure to, even if doing so is risky in the short term. As a music fan I appreciate it when festivals take these risks, and I try to express that appreciation with my time and money when possible.

There’s a reason why labels like Brainfeeder are signing more straightforward dance acts like Ross From Friends. Those lo-fi guys are only a small spectrum of what new and exciting things are happening in electronic music. Check out a techno act like Daniel Avery on Arcadia. It’s other worldly. I get excited just thinking about it. Meanwhile you have acts like Koze putting out AOTY material.

Cut Copy wasn’t a dig. You just always seem to point out how dance acts play in NYC for cheap and how that might have detoured buyers. Cut Copy is also a cheap ticket that routinely comes through, but I assume you saw them and that they were still a priority for many on this board. People are going to like what they want and like you said it’s a big world. There might even be some people willing to drop some money on this lineup specifically because of The Point. Had they still bought a ticket had the lineup just been Migos and The Killers? Maybe not. We can’t answer for everyone, nor should we.

Edit: I don’t think I got anymore personal than you did?

3post1jack1 I’d also respond to you that I think your comment about radio play misses the mark a little. Yes, stuff like Skee Mask isn’t going to pop up on the radio, but EDM never really did either, it took some evolution. You weren’t hearing Daft Punk on the radio, you were hearing Kanye sample Daft Punk on the radio. Eventually guys like SHM and Calvin Harris has radio hits, but they did so with a sound that had evolved significantly from what the genre was doing 5-10 years earlier.

Same was true of the first wave electro boom in the US. Stuff like Moby and Fatboy Slim that were mainstream successful represented a far edge of the total genre, but that mainstream success of a few made the other artists more popular and viable. And guys like OutKast sampling jungle beats played an important role as well.

I also think there's something to be said here as well for the internet and how global trends can easily gain traction. This music is more accessible than ever.