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If the suggestion here is that the Sonora being in the "front" was a good thing for drawing a crowd that year, I couldn't disagree more. My sense was that people glanced in on their way into the festival and didn't come back. By the time GBV went on, the Sonora was at the exit; most people were already well inside the fest, and nobody was leaving yet.
And sure they'd probably not be a great draw regardless, but similarly billed acts from Warpaint to Jagwar Ma to King Gizzard to Thundercat did fine, and I absolutely think each of those acts would've drawn less at the Sonora that year, and I absolutely think each of those acts would've drawn less if the top of the bill looked like last year instead of 2017.
Those acts are way more popular than GBV is right now.
I didn't say they weren't. To recap, this all started because I suggested that while obviously that demographic is not going to draw 125k people to Coachella, it may draw 10k that otherwise wouldn't have come, and that 10k could be the difference between a sellout or not. I made the point that those kinds of acts draw fine when there's something at the top of the bill to incentivize their fans to take the plunge, and don't draw as well when there isn't, with examples. Getting in a back and forth about fucking Guided By Voices and the effect of a distant Sonora is an unnecessary sidebar; I think my point still stands, but none of it is quantifiable, we're just people talking across each other on a message board, so whatever. I'll keep attending regardless of who they book and I hope I'm not coming off as whining about how it's CHANGED because I don't really care that deeply, but I do think (without evidence!) that they'd benefit from legitimately catering to rock fans (while still keeping it a smaller portion of the bill!) which they are inconsistent about doing and did a particularly bad job of this year (incidentally a poorly selling year, it would seem).
Post by braundiggity on Apr 2, 2019 17:26:31 GMT -5
Relatedly, I would assume this was the rationale behind including a ton of international acts - finding new potential Coachella-goers and targeting them to help supplement the ~200k that are coming for the Arianas and the Weeknds and the Gambino's of the music world.
I think it’s a list of all the things people have suggested. Weekend 2 has always had significantly less demand, increased capacity for Weekend 1 has made that even more true. Most festivals appear to be having a down year, with the exception of maybe Bonnaroo which is still bouncing back from their own couple years in the wilderness. The headliners are objectively not as big as they had been planning on, and swapping them out probably had knock on effects on the rest of the poster. I joke about obscure house djs but that’s something I’m legit peeved about, and part of the reason I did presale was because I thought I could count on that genre being represented.
But I think the house music and the guitar acts is a pretty minor issue. The biggest issues are headliners that are a clear step down commercially from what people expect from Coachella, and just a general trend away from interest in big multi-genre festivals.
It's not "OMG Coachella is CANCELLLEEDDD" but in the new era of fragmented musical lineups, they're going to have to continue bringing 1-2 major, major buzz headliners/reunions a year to push the amount of tickets they have.
I absolutely agree with this, and it's basically the reason why I think it may be time for me to move on. Either:
1. GV cannot book 1-2 major buzz headliners a year and the needless negativity around the lineup is so great that they can't sell tix, resulting in "stunts" like Sunday Service.
2. GV books 1-2 major buzz headliners a year and the awful Stans that are drawn to the fest because of those artists change the festival "vibe" vastly.
1. creates 2. because the Stans from the "stunts" will naturally cause problems.
I don't think it's that complicated. The line up is good with crazy depth. BUT most people look at only the headliners + 2nd line to decide if they want to go. Tame and Gambino are both weak headliners a year after they had Beyonce. And although 2018 didn't offer diversity in the headliners, Em and The Weeknd have massive fan bases. Also, two years removed from Radiohead + Gaga (initially Beyonce) + Kendrick (right as he dropped DAMN.). It's hard to top that for the casual fan. On top of that, Coachella was bound to start losing it's luster gradually. Coachella is still a top destination but it's not nearly as "OH MY GOSH COACHELLA" as it used to be. It's just nature that a festival will lose it's hype eventually.
Ariana is a big headliner in her own right, but she is a step down from Kanye West.
What would be some of the bigger names (headliner, second line, whatever) that you think would’ve made a bigger difference? An official Kanye booking is the only one coming to mind for me.
I don't think it's that complicated. The line up is good with crazy depth. BUT most people look at only the headliners + 2nd line to decide if they want to go. Tame and Gambino are both weak headliners a year after they had Beyonce. And although 2018 didn't offer diversity in the headliners, Em and The Weeknd have massive fan bases. Also, two years removed from Radiohead + Gaga (initially Beyonce) + Kendrick (right as he dropped DAMN.). It's hard to top that for the casual fan. On top of that, Coachella was bound to start losing it's luster gradually. Coachella is still a top destination but it's not nearly as "OH MY GOSH COACHELLA" as it used to be. It's just nature that a festival will lose it's hype eventually.
Ariana is a big headliner in her own right, but she is a step down from Kanye West.
Thats the problem, for $500 a ticket with a shuttle + super expensive housing/hotels for those who don't camp + expensive food + drinks/extra curricular + merch, you want to be "wowed". You can see these smaller acts at their shows for much less or at much cheaper fests. People are paying to see the big/more expensive names and smaller names, not worth it from a monetary standpoint to just see a bunch of cheap acts.
Khalid just announced his tour, $80 for GA, so like $100 post fees? Smaller names can be seen for like $15-25 or even openers for $40-50
What would be some of the bigger names (headliner, second line, whatever) that you think would’ve made a bigger difference? An official Kanye booking is the only one coming to mind for me.
Kanye and JT obv Edm wise: Maybe some names like Zhu, Flume, TCS, Tiesto instead of Francis and Snake again
What would be some of the bigger names (headliner, second line, whatever) that you think would’ve made a bigger difference? An official Kanye booking is the only one coming to mind for me.
Names I think we could get next year that would bring more buzz
Rihanna, Chance, Metallica (once in a lifetime thing) I actually think we get this. After that
Frank Ocean, Pearl Jam, Jay-Z, Daft, Travis (w/ new album)
Then a bunch of 2nd liners is just who is hot at the time. We couldn’t predict Cardi B or SZA blowing up and Khalid should be getting more steam these days cause his music is better but none of the singles are hitting like Location hit. A good second line comes when the lineup drops not when the acts are booked. It takes foresight.
What would be some of the bigger names (headliner, second line, whatever) that you think would’ve made a bigger difference? An official Kanye booking is the only one coming to mind for me.
Kanye and JT obv Edm wise: Maybe some names like Zhu, Flume, TCS, Tiesto instead of Francis and Snake again
They need a reunion or huge act soon
I doubt JT would move the needle much at all. He would be playing after a huge tour in 2018 promoting an album that was not exactly rapturously received.
What would be some of the bigger names (headliner, second line, whatever) that you think would’ve made a bigger difference? An official Kanye booking is the only one coming to mind for me.
Names I think we could get next year that would bring more buzz
Rihanna, Chance, Metallica (once in a lifetime thing) I actually think we get this. After that
Frank Ocean, Pearl Jam, Jay-Z, Daft, Travis (w/ new album)
Then a bunch of 2nd liners is just who is hot at the time. We couldn’t predict Cardi B or SZA blowing up and Khalid should be getting more steam these days cause his music is better but none of the singles are hitting like Location hit. A good second line comes when the lineup drops not when the acts are booked. It takes foresight.
Yeah, I agree with this a lot more, though doesn’t Billie Eilish kind of fit the mold you’ve described?
Post by braundiggity on Apr 2, 2019 19:04:12 GMT -5
I’m also dubious JT would have moved the needle. Tbh I’m doubtful Kanye would have, either, after his last couple years and disastrous end to his last tour. Realistically there aren’t many acts as big as a Beyoncé, and the only way to have that kind of draw year-in, year-out will eventually be coheadliners (where each is on the scale of a Gambino/Tame).
I also think it’s worth mentioning that as of now, Ariana Grande has had the number one song in America for 9 out of 14 chart weeks this year. Sweetener and Dangerous Woman both had a couple of big singles, but nothing *this* big, and no one could’ve predicted that a few months ago.
Post by problem dog on Apr 2, 2019 19:19:18 GMT -5
Camp Flog Gnaw sold out almost instantly, and that was just a Kids See Ghosts set. Kanye's first major solo show in years would have been a massive draw.
I was first in line to bag on JT, but he absolutely would have moved more tickets than Tame Impala.
I guess my broader point is that JT is certainly bigger than Tame Impala but Ariana trumps both by a long shot.
Eh I disagree there too. I’d certainly rather see Ari, and long term she’ll end up being a clear “number one at Coachella” caliber headliner, but she’s not there yet. I think if you surveyed the type of casual fans who go to Coachella based on the name and the top two lines that are the bread and butter if ticket sales, they’re picking JT over Ari, and even if you surveyed this board I think they’d be at best 50/50. JT is old and washed, but old washed white guys have commercial staying power.
Kanye and JT obv Edm wise: Maybe some names like Zhu, Flume, TCS, Tiesto instead of Francis and Snake again
They need a reunion or huge act soon
I doubt JT would move the needle much at all. He would be playing after a huge tour in 2018 promoting an album that was not exactly rapturously received.
Names I think we could get next year that would bring more buzz
Rihanna, Chance, Metallica (once in a lifetime thing) I actually think we get this. After that
Frank Ocean, Pearl Jam, Jay-Z, Daft, Travis (w/ new album)
Then a bunch of 2nd liners is just who is hot at the time. We couldn’t predict Cardi B or SZA blowing up and Khalid should be getting more steam these days cause his music is better but none of the singles are hitting like Location hit. A good second line comes when the lineup drops not when the acts are booked. It takes foresight.
Yeah, I agree with this a lot more, though doesn’t Billie Eilish kind of fit the mold you’ve described?
Billie definitely does even if I’m not a fan she’s a huge 2nd line act. But the other ones don’t have any recent buzz besides Solange (album didn’t do as well as the last but buzz is buzz). Cudi is only getting buzz cause Kanye. I’m gonna be upset when he has an amazing set and when he ends with reborn every groans cause Kanye didn’t come out. The rest of the 2nd line is attempts to bring in a new market (Blackpink, Balvin, Bad Bunny) acts whose new material keeps them popular but they aren’t hotter than their last album (Weezer, YG, Chvrches, 1975, Khalid (if album flops Friday)) or acts that have big fan bases that will come out regardless but no one sitting at home will go damn I’ll never get to see them (Dillon, Diplo, snake, Zed,Bassnectar). Aphex is rare so that keeps the whole “Coachella is still unique vibe when you see every fest has Childish/Tame when the barista in Silverlake tells you Coachella is basically wango tango.
After some math, can confirm that performances by Chem Bros, Stereolab, Modeselektor, and The Rapture would have madeup that extra 10K and ya wouldn’t even need the worst possible version of Kanye.
Eh I disagree there too. I’d certainly rather see Ari, and long term she’ll end up being a clear “number one at Coachella” caliber headliner, but she’s not there yet. I think if you surveyed the type of casual fans who go to Coachella based on the name and the top two lines that are the bread and butter if ticket sales, they’re picking JT over Ari, and even if you surveyed this board I think they’d be at best 50/50. JT is old and washed, but old washed white guys have commercial staying power.
No way. I completely disagree. Ari is the #1 most listened to artist in the world right now on Spotify. She has had a #1, #2, and #3 hit on the Billboard 100 at the same time this year. But what's more, her albums are critically acclaimed as well. Sweetener made tons of Best Album list from prestigious blogs and magazines. Reddit Coachella is far more excited for Ari than JT. JT was a snooze announcement over there and Ari is getting tons of praise. Nobody liked that last JT album. Ari has the biggest album of the year so far. Ari is unquestionably the bigger draw of the two at the moment, for both casuals and the type to attend Coachella. The issue of why she isn't that big of a draw for sales is because she was an emergency headliner, she had already announced and sold a bunch of her standalone shows by the time she was announced. If she was kicking her tour off at Coachella, that would absolutely be a big draw.
I think the JT legacy has really dropped off in these past few years.
If they're pushing Sunday Service with this second wave of W2 tix it's pretty much confirmed on the grounds, no?
Based on the wording on the W2 sale page, I honestly am worried that it's not and that they'll end up charging a separate fee or require a separate pass to attend. I guess we'll see soon.
Eh I disagree there too. I’d certainly rather see Ari, and long term she’ll end up being a clear “number one at Coachella” caliber headliner, but she’s not there yet. I think if you surveyed the type of casual fans who go to Coachella based on the name and the top two lines that are the bread and butter if ticket sales, they’re picking JT over Ari, and even if you surveyed this board I think they’d be at best 50/50. JT is old and washed, but old washed white guys have commercial staying power.
No way. I completely disagree. Ari is the #1 most listened to artist in the world right now on Spotify. She has had a #1, #2, and #3 hit on the Billboard 100 at the same time this year. But what's more, her albums are critically acclaimed as well. Sweetener made tons of Best Album list from prestigious blogs and magazines. Reddit Coachella is far more excited for Ari than JT. JT was a snooze announcement over there and Ari is getting tons of praise. Nobody liked that last JT album. Ari has the biggest album of the year so far. Ari is unquestionably the bigger draw of the two at the moment, for both casuals and the type to attend Coachella. The issue of why she isn't that big of a draw for sales is because she was an emergency headliner, she had already announced and sold a bunch of her standalone shows by the time she was announced. If she was kicking her tour off at Coachella, that would absolutely be a big draw.
I think the JT legacy has really dropped off in these past few years.
JT’s tour still did great numbers. All the metrics about Ari can be completely true (although Billboard rankings is a broken measurement) and that still doesn’t change the fact that Americans loves to prop up white guys who haven’t done anything worthwhile in years.
Post by WhyTheLongFace on Apr 2, 2019 20:19:09 GMT -5
Ari is the hottest thing on earth right now and everyone I know is like “oh yeah I would love to see her”. But JT is more “legendary”, more chances for guests and more people would like to see him just because he has decades in the game. Plus just last year a big solo pop star brought out their old group at Coachella
No way. I completely disagree. Ari is the #1 most listened to artist in the world right now on Spotify. She has had a #1, #2, and #3 hit on the Billboard 100 at the same time this year. But what's more, her albums are critically acclaimed as well. Sweetener made tons of Best Album list from prestigious blogs and magazines. Reddit Coachella is far more excited for Ari than JT. JT was a snooze announcement over there and Ari is getting tons of praise. Nobody liked that last JT album. Ari has the biggest album of the year so far. Ari is unquestionably the bigger draw of the two at the moment, for both casuals and the type to attend Coachella. The issue of why she isn't that big of a draw for sales is because she was an emergency headliner, she had already announced and sold a bunch of her standalone shows by the time she was announced. If she was kicking her tour off at Coachella, that would absolutely be a big draw.
I think the JT legacy has really dropped off in these past few years.
JT’s tour still did great numbers. All the metrics about Ari can be completely true (although Billboard rankings is a broken measurement) and that still doesn’t change the fact that Americans loves to prop up white guys who haven’t done anything worthwhile in years.
I don’t have the numbers, but I think Ariana’s stadium tour is doing better than JT’s last stadium tour.
If they're pushing Sunday Service with this second wave of W2 tix it's pretty much confirmed on the grounds, no?
Based on the wording on the W2 sale page, I honestly am worried that it's not and that they'll end up charging a separate fee or require a separate pass to attend. I guess we'll see soon.
Did I miss the wording because I get a 404 Not Found page when clicking for info on Sunday Service on the ticketing page. I'd honestly be surprised if it's off-site, though. I can understand early morning logistics surely being a nightmare with soundcheck, gates, non-campers driving in and lining up early as shit (if it remains at 9AM,) etc, but I'm just wondering if GV would really completely exclude thousands of camping attendees from seeing such a huge name?
Did I miss the wording because I get a 404 Not Found page when clicking for info on Sunday Service on the ticketing page. I'd honestly be surprised if it's off-site, though. I can understand early morning logistics surely being a nightmare with soundcheck, gates, non-campers driving in and lining up early as shit (if it remains at 9AM,) etc, but I'm just wondering if GV would really completely exclude thousands of camping attendees from seeing such a huge name?
It's fairly inconclusive wording. But below:
For details on passes, pricing, and and Kanye West’s Sunday Service click here.
I'm a little worried that by making it a point that they will be releasing details on the service itself that they are setting up expectations about the event that would be important to disclose before selling passes. Honestly the "sunrirse" and "mountain" clues do not bode well for it being inside the festival, and the fact that they were only able to secure permission for it to happen once frankly speaks to an offsite performance more than an onsite one, as if Indio would approve it one weekend for the festival grounds, why not both?
My deepest fear here is that there will be an additional pass required for it and not all W2 attendees will get to go.
JT’s tour still did great numbers. All the metrics about Ari can be completely true (although Billboard rankings is a broken measurement) and that still doesn’t change the fact that Americans loves to prop up white guys who haven’t done anything worthwhile in years.
I agree that Billboard is broken now, and sure JT's tour did great (although I also think Ari's is performing better), but I don't think the 30-50 year olds that attended JT are necessarily that reflective of the Coachella crowd (which I'd assume still leans 25-35). Ari feels far more current and exciting. I think Reddit Coachella is actually a fairly good representation of the people that go to Coachella "for the music" compared to, say, Coachella Facebook, and they seem farrrr more excited for Ari than they were when JT was leaked, with a couple "she does not belong at Coachella" naysayers. And I'm positive the Coachella Facebook would prefer Ari.
Ultimately of the five headliners that were in play for this year, Kanye's first show back would have been the biggest draw. I am pretty sure the W2 Sunday Service Kanye set we're getting is going to be polarizing at best and still think there's a real chance it is the type of thing that not everybody gets to see, is offsite, etc. But a nighttime headlining show would have been the biggest draw out of the five.
Clearly the lack of rock music is why Weekend 2 didn’t sell well. Bumblebee and company were very clear about that and (somehow) this proves them right.
I only asked for more legacy(ish) names on the poster so that those over 30 actually fell welcome. Glastonbury wants more than 1 generation to attend, plus the fallow years make fans not take it for granted. Seems easier than chasing an audience that might fly in from Asia and build a vacation. I can't think of many rock acts they've ignored in the past 5-7 years without crossing some imaginary "metal" threshold.
You think making W2 tickets at $350-$375 would kill W2 or help sales? That $50-75 may be a big plus for some
I suggested capping it at 75k for W2 and allowing booze on the entire grounds like Stagecoach. Got yelled at on the old Coachella board.
Maybe they could cap W1 sales at 2 per card/address and allow up to 8 for W2.
Another option is like the time Ultra did double weekends, they scrambled the set times, but kept all the same acts. Different stage/day-night swtiches/10 minutes more or less etc... They also streamed both weekends that year.
Do attendees really care about streaming? To be honest, as a weekend 1 goer, I would love for Weekend 2 to start getting more streams. Then I could actually watch them.
And if anyone buys tickets to Weekend 2 next year expecting a "one weekend only" act like Kanye again, they are in for some serious disappointment. This is obviously an exception, and we still don't know how it's going to be handled. They've been very clear about wanting both weekends to be the same. It would be a damn shame if they started handling two weekends the way ACL does.
Paul Tollett gave this 2012 quote on behalf of Goldenvoice:
The approach isn't completely unique; many festivals, including Jazz Fest in New Orleans (also produced by Goldenvoice parent AEG Live) and Milwaukee Summerfest, take place over multiple weekends. But what is unprecedented is the fact that Goldenvoice will book the same talent for consecutive weekends, effectively staging the same mega event twice. Tickets go on sale Friday.
Tollett stopped short of saying the two lineups would be exactly the same. "That's what we're attempting," he said. "We'll replicate the same poster for both."
JT’s tour still did great numbers. All the metrics about Ari can be completely true (although Billboard rankings is a broken measurement) and that still doesn’t change the fact that Americans loves to prop up white guys who haven’t done anything worthwhile in years.
I agree that Billboard is broken now, and sure JT's tour did great (although I also think Ari's is performing better), but I don't think the 30-50 year olds that attended JT are necessarily that reflective of the Coachella crowd (which I'd assume still leans 25-35). Ari feels far more current and exciting. I think Reddit Coachella is actually a fairly good representation of the people that go to Coachella "for the music" compared to, say, Coachella Facebook, and they seem farrrr more excited for Ari than they were when JT was leaked, with a couple "she does not belong at Coachella" naysayers. And I'm positive the Coachella Facebook would prefer Ari.
Ultimately of the five headliners that were in play for this year, Kanye's first show back would have been the biggest draw. I am pretty sure the W2 Sunday Service Kanye set we're getting is going to be polarizing at best and still think there's a real chance it is the type of thing that not everybody gets to see, is offsite, etc. But a nighttime headlining show would have been the biggest draw out of the five.
Every time I go to Reddit Coachella it’s just a big Tame Impala circle jerk. They’re going to have the smallest crowd of any headliners since 2013. I don’t think you should put too much faith in what’s going on over there as a bellwether.
