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I really, REALLY hope the nominee commits to having a real primary next time around.
To be clear, there was a Democratic primary election held for the 2024 POTUS nomination. The problem is the elections were held anywhere from 1-6 months ago, and anyone with a solid chance of superseding Biden didn't run. You can write in someone's name, but you can't force them to put their name on the ballot even if they have the financial means and organization to do so.
Ideally the primary election would be held across all 50 states no more than 30 days prior to the party's nominating convention. Ideally we should have a lot of things.
I agree with some of the things you say in here but the idea there was a real primary this year is just naive at best.
Anyway, Biden undermined the entire Democratic message of Trump being an existential threat to democracy tonight. He's a liability and they absolutely need to get him out of there.
Not nearly good enough.
this was just such an unacceptable answer. We've learned nothing from the RBG debacle.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Jul 6, 2024 20:14:00 GMT -5
The simplest thing is that the people most to be effected by Biden losing is not Biden. He can lose and just look at it as "Aw shucks...I tried and I did my best. Dang". Then go home and live the rest of his days as a rich dude with the best of care for his well being. Meanwhile the most marginalized people in our society are literally going to be fighting for their rights and lives. It's frustrating to say the least.
talking points defending/ promoting biden that i'm seeing as a casual are rough:
there's not enough time to find another candidate why isn't the media focusing on trump this is a manufactured crisis you're actually just voting for the executive branch
Anyway, Biden undermined the entire Democratic message of Trump being an existential threat to democracy tonight. He's a liability and they absolutely need to get him out of there.
Not nearly good enough.
this was just such an unacceptable answer. We've learned nothing from the RBG debacle.
It's insulting how much they demand we care and cannot themselves match that level of concern.
talking points defending/ promoting biden that i'm seeing as a casual are rough:
there's not enough time to find another candidate why isn't the media focusing on trump this is a manufactured crisis you're actually just voting for the executive branch
1. The “Finding Another Candidate” is Kamala Harris. End of story. I don’t like her but that’s the option and I’d vote for any D over Trump. Delegates and campaign cash can’t just get moved to new candidates willy-nilly.
2. There absolutely is ZERO time. We have 50 states with different laws and timeframes for primary elections and selecting delegates. The idea that we’d somehow run back a new primary is absolutely absurd. Pure fantasy.
Our state Minnesota already had its primary in March. We chose Biden. Our legislature is out of session until next year. How would our state pull off a new election? Multiply that by every other state.
3. The media is absolutely spending an inordinate amount of time on Biden compared to Trump. The point is we don’t have media that even pretends to be news or unbiased. How many news agencies have spent anywhere near as much time on Biden’s speech and age issues in the last week as they have on Trump’s newly released Epstein document. The media loses if they just continue to report “Biden leading convicted felon and adjudicated rapist by 12 points”. They need chaos and a seemingly close race.
4. I would consider it a manufactured crisis considering the same complaints about Biden can be leveled at Trump, yet the media chooses not to cover them the same or at all. Additionally, I’ve been one of the few people in here to consistently push for age restrictions on presidential candidates, yet every time that subject comes up, the chorus of haters immediately chime in. All I know is that we wouldn’t be in this situation with age restrictions.
Democrats also have a history of calling for their own presidential candidates to step aside. Even Obama got those calls after a poor debate performance. (And we Minnesotans should absolutely be aware considering Al Franken got bounced by his own party. Democrats love chomping on their own).
5. Yes, we are voting for President, his cabinet, and policies. Trump doesn’t do much “Presidenting”. He watches TV and rampages on Truth Social while scribbling on some documents in sharpie. His minions are actively planning:
I’d much rather not have all these insurrectionists taking over the federal government under another trump term. Or more MAGA Supreme Court justices.
7. And finally, I’d much rather have an open Democrat field for the 2028 election than swap over to Kamala Harris now and have her be the presumptive nominee in 4 years. It would effectively be extending the Biden regime until potentially 2032 with no real alternative.
Last Edit: Jul 7, 2024 11:37:34 GMT -5 by ZIG - Back to Top
I thought Brexit was the Canary in the coalmine for 2016, I knew the day that happened that Trump would win.
I was seeing France elections as the canary for 2024. After getting the most votes in the 1st round, depsute what the polls were predicting, it appears the far right fell to 3rd in the final round. Still not great the far right is even this popular, but the threat of a far right french president isn't going to happen, so maybe good signs for November.
I thought Brexit was the Canary in the coalmine for 2016, I knew the day that happened that Trump would win.
I was seeing France elections as the canary for 2024. After getting the most votes in the 1st round, depsute what the polls were predicting, it appears the far right fell to 3rd in the final round. Still not great the far right is even this popular, but the threat of a far right french president isn't going to happen, so maybe good signs for November.
Both the UK and France are giving me hope for November. A lot can still happen over the next 4 months, but hopefully this is a sign of growing anti-far right ideology in the west.
I thought Brexit was the Canary in the coalmine for 2016, I knew the day that happened that Trump would win.
I was seeing France elections as the canary for 2024. After getting the most votes in the 1st round, depsute what the polls were predicting, it appears the far right fell to 3rd in the final round. Still not great the far right is even this popular, but the threat of a far right french president isn't going to happen, so maybe good signs for November.
Both the UK and France are giving me hope for November. A lot can still happen over the next 4 months, but hopefully this is a sign of growing anti-far right ideology in the west.
Britain was a long time coming, 14 years of one party will cause a massive swing. Polls were dead on there.
France had conditions very much like the US. A lot of immigration, a "good" economy that wasn't translating to the working class, LGBT backlash, and a centrist leader that was plummeting in popularity. The polls predicted a far right wave, instead the Liberals AND Centrists finished higher.
I thought Brexit was the Canary in the coalmine for 2016, I knew the day that happened that Trump would win.
I was seeing France elections as the canary for 2024. After getting the most votes in the 1st round, depsute what the polls were predicting, it appears the far right fell to 3rd in the final round. Still not great the far right is even this popular, but the threat of a far right french president isn't going to happen, so maybe good signs for November.
I'm finding it hard to get overly reassured by the UK, at least. Labour only picked up a little under 2% from the last election; they mostly won a dominant parliamentary position because Reform split the conservative vote. Better than conservatives winning, but I fear it'll either lead to either A) Reform continuing to grow, or B) Tories deciding they need to appease those voters and end up returning to power, but more aggressively evil next time. I'd feel better if they'd added 5% or more to their vote.
I certainly wish there was a third party splitting the GOP vote either way, though.
Can we at least try to limit the number of unsubstantiated claims from random accounts just trying to mine likes/retweets in this thread?
Sorry, the former CEO of CNN, Jeffrey Zucker, is a a trump supporter. He got bounced in 2022 for having a relationship with a co-worker. Oh, and Zucker also was the one at NBC that hired Donald Trump for The Apprentice.
Also, CNN’s corporate overlords are Warner Brothers Discovery and David Zaslav runs the show. Maybe it’s a coincidence, but it was Trump’s White House that approved the merger that combined WB, Discovery, CNN, HBO making David Zaslav.
But yeah, CNN CEO is Sir Mark Thompson and is British. The tweet got that wrong. But it doesn’t change the fact that ALL the major media in this country is essentially right-leaning. We literally talked about this a few weeks ago about Sinclair and local tv, Gannett with print, etc.
Can we at least try to limit the number of unsubstantiated claims from random accounts just trying to mine likes/retweets in this thread?
Sorry, the former CEO of CNN, Jeffrey Zucker, is a a trump supporter. He got bounced in 2022 for having a relationship with a co-worker. Oh, and Zucker also was the one at NBC that hired Donald Trump for The Apprentice.
Also, CNN’s corporate overlords are Warner Brothers Discovery and David Zaslav runs the show. Maybe it’s a coincidence, but it was Trump’s White House that approved the merger that combined WB, Discovery, CNN, HBO making David Zaslav.
But yeah, CNN CEO is Sir Mark Thompson and is British. The tweet got that wrong. But it doesn’t change the fact that ALL the major media in this country is essentially right-leaning. We literally talked about this a few weeks ago about Sinclair and local tv, Gannett with print, etc.
I didn’t comment on whether or not the media is right leaning. I was just pointing out that you shared a tweet from some random person that clearly just tweeted some random things he made up without doing any research just to get attention.
To be clear, there was a Democratic primary election held for the 2024 POTUS nomination. The problem is the elections were held anywhere from 1-6 months ago, and anyone with a solid chance of superseding Biden didn't run. You can write in someone's name, but you can't force them to put their name on the ballot even if they have the financial means and organization to do so.
Ideally the primary election would be held across all 50 states no more than 30 days prior to the party's nominating convention. Ideally we should have a lot of things.
I agree with some of the things you say in here but the idea there was a real primary this year is just naive at best.
If I'm naive, whats your definition of a "real primary"?
I thought Brexit was the Canary in the coalmine for 2016, I knew the day that happened that Trump would win.
I was seeing France elections as the canary for 2024. After getting the most votes in the 1st round, depsute what the polls were predicting, it appears the far right fell to 3rd in the final round. Still not great the far right is even this popular, but the threat of a far right french president isn't going to happen, so maybe good signs for November.
I'm finding it hard to get overly reassured by the UK, at least. Labour only picked up a little under 2% from the last election; they mostly won a dominant parliamentary position because Reform split the conservative vote. Better than conservatives winning, but I fear it'll either lead to either A) Reform continuing to grow, or B) Tories deciding they need to appease those voters and end up returning to power, but more aggressively evil next time. I'd feel better if they'd added 5% or more to their vote.
I certainly wish there was a third party splitting the GOP vote either way, though.
Remember, its NOT the nationwide popular vote that elects POTUS, rather its decided by a Founding Fathers™ fuckup called the Electoral College.
Aside for Maine and Nebraska, whoever gets the majority of votes in the other 48 states gets ALL of the Electoral College votes allocated to that state based on the US Census. The candidate with the most Electoral College votes becomes POTUS. It fucking sucks, but since its baked in to the preamble of the US Constitution next to the charter for the USPS. The only way to rid ourselves of it is thru a constitutional amendment (ideally) or total revolution (time to fight the war again, a lot of us will die, and the outcome could be fascism anyway).
Meanwhile the most marginalized people in our society are literally going to be fighting for their rights and lives.
Doesn't help that a LOT of them are voting against their best interests because of the right-wing reality distortion vortex that's consumed them. A pitfall of the Information Age.
I thought Brexit was the Canary in the coalmine for 2016, I knew the day that happened that Trump would win.
I was seeing France elections as the canary for 2024. After getting the most votes in the 1st round, depsute what the polls were predicting, it appears the far right fell to 3rd in the final round. Still not great the far right is even this popular, but the threat of a far right french president isn't going to happen, so maybe good signs for November.
Both the UK and France are giving me hope for November. A lot can still happen over the next 4 months, but hopefully this is a sign of growing anti-far right ideology in the west.
Gives me hope too, but...
The UK and France have a parliamentary democracy, where instead of voting for the Democrats or Republicans, you can vote for whatever political party that best aligns with your ideology. After the election, ideologically adjacent political parties will come together to form a majority coalition government, which then elects a prime minister (POTUS equivalent).
Democrats or Republicans are basically the equivalent of coalition governments in the context of the US Federal government, largely because of the Electoral College directly enabling bipartisanship when it comes to the Executive branch.
Again, not an endorsement of the American system, just stating the reality barring constitutional conventions or US Civil War 2 where a lot of people will die and we might get fascism anyway.
I agree with some of the things you say in here but the idea there was a real primary this year is just naive at best.
If I'm naive, whats your definition of a "real primary"?
Also, takes one to know one.
Takes one to know one? C'mon dude. I didn't call you naive, I called your idea naive.
A real primary would include multiple candidates declaring and campaigning and debating each other. For people to have a chance to see candidates in settings like we saw in the Biden/Trump debate. Where people have a choice between more than a candidate and "uncommitted" (or whatever the ballot equivalent is, I didn't have an "uncommitted" option in PA, so I just wrote in someone else).
It's OK to say it wasn't a real primary. Sitting presidents don't usually have real primaries (at least in my lifetime), so it's not unusual.
The idea that democrats would have a “proper” primary is absurd. Some of you need to read a book or do some research. There’s been several instances of a sitting President being truly primaried. Let’s just say the sitting president ALWAYS loses the General.
1992: Pay Buchanan ran against GHW Bush in the primary and Ross Perot ran as an independent. Clinton won.
1980: Ted Kennedy and Jerry Brown ran against Jimmy Carter. Kennedy won 12 primaries. Reagan trounced Carter in the general.
1976: Ronald Reagan primaried Gerald Ford. Reagan won 24 primaries. Ford lost to Carter in the general.
1968: McCarthy, RFK, Humphrey all ran against LBJ. LBJ is the only one on this list that dropped out and Humphrey got trounced by Nixon in the general.
If you want to go way back, we could look at 1912 where Teddy Roosevelt ran against his former Sec of War Taft. Teddy ended up running under the Progressive/Bull Moose Party in the general and Woodrow Wilson came out on top.
If he’s on the ballot in Louisiana, and if Biden is the Democratic candidate, I’m voting RFK jr. My vote in Louisiana is as meaningless as my vote would be in California. If Biden drops out, I’d at least consider Kamala but not likely voting for her. I’d definitely consider any other alternative. I’d vote for Whitmer and very likely vote for Newsom.
Whatever
RFK? That idiot isn't getting my vote anywhere ever.