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Post by potentpotables on Sept 9, 2019 22:38:20 GMT -5
piggy pablo I appreciate the ferocity with which you support Bernie, and I think on some of the things you make compelling points about how Bernie is a better candidate.
But, man, I just can't sit here and listen to someone say Warren isn't pro-union. Can't do it, bro. She has a lifetime score of 98% from the AFL-CIO. She has introduced legislation to repeal the right-to-work provisions under Taft-Hartley. She co-sponsored Bernie's "Workplace Democracy Act" in 2018 that would make union elections much easier for workers.
I'm plugged into the labor community, obviously (I work for a public sector union in PA), and I can pretty confidently say that union thugs are ready and willing to support either Candidate Warren or Candidate Sanders with enthusiasm, time, blood, and sweat. Solely on labor issues - as you point out, there are other issues that separate the two.
Post by piggy pablo on Sept 9, 2019 22:41:17 GMT -5
Fair points. I mostly take her as being less than pro-union when she says she's a "capitalist to her bones" and stands to applaud when Trump says the US will never be a socialist country. I think she also crossed a hotel picket line recently? I tried looking for where I read that but couldn't find it right away.
Taking a look at the AFL-CIO scores, senate Dems on average have scores that are very high as well. For 2017, the last year on record on their website, the average Dem score was 100%. Let's be honest. Not every Democratic senator is perfectly pro-labor, or all that pro-labor at all. Seems a weak indicator.
I'm on both of their text/e-mail lists and I get way more stuff from Bernie about solidarity with McDonald's workers, Wal-Mart, Amazon, etc. I can't think of a time Warren sent me something along those lines, actually.
Federal election filings reveal that Sen. Elizabeth Warren's campaign, which had vowed to "stand with the Palms workers" as early as March, has repeatedly crossed the picket line at the Palms Casino Resort, which is in the crosshairs of the union's boycott, with stays in May and June. Candidate Marianne Williamson also stayed at the Palms in May.
A Warren campaign spokesperson told CBS News that the incident in question involved two advance staff members and claimed that there was no picket line. The spokesperson says the campaign apologized to the Culinary Union "weeks ago when we realized it."
"Keep the pressure on. Shoulder-to-shoulder, I'm in this fight with you and the Culinary Union all the way," Warren had said in a video posted last week.
They like her because she’s a great fucking candidate. Sorry she’s not your perfect democratic socialist, but she will move the party farther left than anyone else running, but Bernie. Am I wrong? You can’t change the world with one candidate and in 4 years. Sometimes you need to take what you can get.
This is not any kind of argument for Warren over Bernie. You're saying Bernie would move the party farther to the left than Warren. That's the whole point. He already has done this even without winning the nomination in 2016, and continues to do so in a contested primary. Warren is not moving the party to the left. She is following Bernie's lead on the issues. Her policies are typically watered-down versions of his. She is using progressive rhetoric to appeal to people who want the party to move left, with very little indication that she is passionate advancing something like Medicare for All. Her climate plan is also less comprehensive. She only recently came out against fracking after people pointed out that Bernie has.
She also is less likely to actually beat Trump if she gets the nomination, by all accounts.
1. I’m not arguing Warren over Bernie. I plan on voting for Sanders in the IL primary. I’m also not suggesting you support her over Sanders either. I’m arguing that Warren is a great candidate, and I would loudly support her if she wins the nomination, and I’m arguing that you should too if you’re already supporting Sanders.
2. That is not the whole point. The Democratic party is figuring out it’s identity post 2016. Moderates are making their case against progressives and vice versa. So what if Warren is taking Bernie’s lead? That should be a good thing for Sanders supporters. 2 of the 3 leading candidates are progressives. How is that not a good thing?
3. I don’t know what you’ve seen to make you feel this way, but I have no doubts about Warren’s passion to push policies that help the lower and middle classes of America.
4. Spare me on what the polls say 14 months away from the general election.
This is not any kind of argument for Warren over Bernie. You're saying Bernie would move the party farther to the left than Warren. That's the whole point. He already has done this even without winning the nomination in 2016, and continues to do so in a contested primary. Warren is not moving the party to the left. She is following Bernie's lead on the issues. Her policies are typically watered-down versions of his. She is using progressive rhetoric to appeal to people who want the party to move left, with very little indication that she is passionate advancing something like Medicare for All. Her climate plan is also less comprehensive. She only recently came out against fracking after people pointed out that Bernie has.
She also is less likely to actually beat Trump if she gets the nomination, by all accounts.
1. I’m not arguing Warren over Bernie. I plan on voting for Sanders in the IL primary. I’m also not suggesting you support her over Sanders either. I’m arguing that Warren is a great candidate, and I would loudly support her if she wins the nomination, and I’m arguing that you should too if you’re already supporting Sanders.
2. That is not the whole point. The Democratic party is figuring out it’s identity post 2016. Moderates are making their case against progressives and vice versa. So what if Warren is taking Bernie’s lead? That should be a good thing for Sanders supporters. 2 of the 3 leading candidates are progressives. How is that not a good thing?
3. I don’t know what you’ve seen to make you feel this way, but I have no doubts about Warren’s passion to push policies that help the lower and middle classes of America.
4. Spare me on what the polls say 14 months away from the general election.
In her own words.
Also, kinda seems like someone who cared about those things would have endorsed Bernie at some point in 2016, rather than cozying up to Hillary, which she is still doing today.
If she's the nominee, I'd vote for her. I'd vote for Kamala Harris or Pete or Biden if I had to. But I don't think she's a great candidate. She's simply an ok one.
1. I’m not arguing Warren over Bernie. I plan on voting for Sanders in the IL primary. I’m also not suggesting you support her over Sanders either. I’m arguing that Warren is a great candidate, and I would loudly support her if she wins the nomination, and I’m arguing that you should too if you’re already supporting Sanders.
2. That is not the whole point. The Democratic party is figuring out it’s identity post 2016. Moderates are making their case against progressives and vice versa. So what if Warren is taking Bernie’s lead? That should be a good thing for Sanders supporters. 2 of the 3 leading candidates are progressives. How is that not a good thing?
3. I don’t know what you’ve seen to make you feel this way, but I have no doubts about Warren’s passion to push policies that help the lower and middle classes of America.
4. Spare me on what the polls say 14 months away from the general election.
In her own words.
Also, kinda seems like someone who cared about those things would have endorsed Bernie at some point in 2016, rather than cozying up to Hillary, which she is still doing today.
If she's the nominee, I'd vote for her. I'd vote for Kamala Harris or Pete or Biden if I had to. But I don't think she's a great candidate. She's simply an ok one.
Isn’t she specifically talking about big money from oil and fossil fuel industries in this clip? I have been unable to find any record of her taking money from those groups? Did she?
Also, I don’t blame her for supporting Hillary in 2016 if that’s who she truly felt had the best chance to win the Election. Hillary wanted to continue to improve Obamacare, so I don’t really think that contradicts how she says she feels about health care. Also, maybe she’s speaking with Hillary about being a woman who’s running for President against Trump? She’s in a very similar situation that Hillary was in, so it would make sense to pick her brain, no?
Truly, who am I to stand in the way of one brave man's unshakeable determination to repeat the mistakes of 2016
We must seek consultation with the great Oracle Hillari, who we can only hope will lean down from her gilded throne and softly whisper "single payer health care will never, ever happen"
Truly, who am I to stand in the way of one brave man's unshakeable determination to repeat the mistakes of 2016
We must seek consultation with the great Oracle Hillari, who we can only hope will lean down from her gilded throne and softly whisper "single payer health care will never, ever happen"
Your posts are so much better when you have honest replies to people instead of these little subliminal jabs where you try to pass yourself off as both smarter than everyone else and funny. Is this how you talk to people face to face? I’m sure it works wonders when you are trying to engage new voters to get them to the polls.
As I said though, I like Bernie’s platform more, and intend on voting for him, and I am an advocate for universal health care, but didn’t Warren endorse that policy, as well? Which would mean if she was the President she would set that as the agenda for health care? Are we just docking her points because she didn’t endorse it in 2016? Can people not change their minds? Or is it just that since she’s taken big money from donors we cannot trust her to follow through on that and eventually ditch the idea?
Idk, I get your points about the donor money, but she has a pretty extensive track record of fighting for the lower and middle classes. I just think what you are implying about her is a tough sell.
Also, kinda seems like someone who cared about those things would have endorsed Bernie at some point in 2016, rather than cozying up to Hillary, which she is still doing today.
If she's the nominee, I'd vote for her. I'd vote for Kamala Harris or Pete or Biden if I had to. But I don't think she's a great candidate. She's simply an ok one.
Isn’t she specifically talking about big money from oil and fossil fuel industries in this clip? I have been unable to find any record of her taking money from those groups? Did she?
Also, I don’t blame her for supporting Hillary in 2016 if that’s who she truly felt had the best chance to win the Election. Hillary wanted to continue to improve Obamacare, so I don’t really think that contradicts how she says she feels about health care. Also, maybe she’s speaking with Hillary about being a woman who’s running for President against Trump? She’s in a very similar situation that Hillary was in, so it would make sense to pick her brain, no?
If someone wanted advice for beating Trump, they probably shouldn't ask Hillary Clinton, which is to say nothing of how reductive "a woman running against Trump" is. Also, she needs to win the primary first, which is probably the actual reason she's chatting with Hillary: to leverage Hillary's influence to secure superdelegates and I'm sure angle for an endorsement.
Sounds like she supported Hillary because she thought she had a shot at VP. If it was about who had the best shot at beating Trump, there's not very much evidence that that's the case. Hillary lost. That would make me question her political instincts. Also, it would be nice if she had conviction on progressive policy that would lead her to endorse a progressive and not simply be a frontrunner. Either candidate between Sanders or Clinton should have been able to beat Trump, and I know you will dismiss any polling as you already have, but the evidence suggests that Bernie was the better-suited candidate to beat Trump.
Whether she is speaking specifically on fossil fuels isn't really the point. The point is that she intends to collect corporate money and that she's telling you that if she took corporate money from the fossil fuel industry that she would be their lackey. She has pledged not to take fossil fuel money, which is good, but her point applies to other industries as well. She plans on getting it from somewhere. So does that mean banks? Does that mean health insurance companies? Where is it going to come from, and what is she going to do for it?
Post by SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal on Sept 10, 2019 13:59:26 GMT -5
Remember when Obama was an advocate for public election finance and then reversed and took money for the 2008 general? Wonder if all the big checks from Wall St had anything to do with him not prosecuting them?
If it was about who had the best shot at beating Trump, there's not very much evidence that that's the case. Hillary lost. That would make me question her political instincts.
Warren endorsed Hillary on June 9, 2016, the date she essentially secured the nomination. Sanders endorsed her 17 days later. Everyone thought Hillary was going to beat Trump.
Remember when Obama was an advocate for public election finance and then reversed and took money for the 2008 general? Wonder if all the big checks from Wall St had anything to do with him not prosecuting them?
Years of Republicans deregulating everything and making white collar crime legal we’re the much bigger issue. He also took a whole bunch of money from the telecom industry and did exactly what they didn’t want him to do and pushed through net neutrality.
Absolutely. But the Dems played a part in deregulation too. Including Biden. I'm sure if you looked at his contributions in the 90's you'd find some financial industry funding. He is from Maryland aftetall.
Wdit: well, he's from Penn. But was a rep from Maryland.