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Post by Dave Maynar on Sept 30, 2019 5:49:02 GMT -5
First political news article today in my feed is about how Bernie has a serious issue in his candidacy in that his time is running out and Warren has eclipsed him. Once again, there are several other candidates that are in much worse positions than him. Lazy hacks.
Post by bugs bunny funny moments on Sept 30, 2019 12:16:18 GMT -5
Bernie: not sure how efficient he would be without a tremendous amount of left politicians winning, age
Warren: increasingly vague stance on M4A, worry that if she’s already trying to appeal too broadly already, she’s only gonna get worse if she wins the nom
As far as what I dislike about Bernie, there are certain foreign policy positions he takes or has taken that I disagree with. There are interventions he has supported in the past like bombing Yugoslavia that I'm not happy with. Mostly stuff that I'm sure everyone voted for, but a touchy point for me. Occasionally he'll fire off a tweet about Israel or something that I don't care for. I still think he's better than the other candidates as far as being dove-ish, but I'm such a peacenik that any serious candidate for president is going to disappoint me at times.
As far as what I dislike about Bernie, there are certain foreign policy positions he takes or has taken that I disagree with. There are interventions he has supported in the past like bombing Yugoslavia that I'm not happy with. Mostly stuff that I'm sure everyone voted for, but a touchy point for me. Occasionally he'll fire off a tweet about Israel or something that I don't care for. I still think he's better than the other candidates as far as being dove-ish, but I'm such a peacenik that any serious candidate for president is going to disappoint me at times.
As far as what I dislike about Bernie, there are certain foreign policy positions he takes or has taken that I disagree with. There are interventions he has supported in the past like bombing Yugoslavia that I'm not happy with. Mostly stuff that I'm sure everyone voted for, but a touchy point for me. Occasionally he'll fire off a tweet about Israel or something that I don't care for. I still think he's better than the other candidates as far as being dove-ish, but I'm such a peacenik that any serious candidate for president is going to disappoint me at times.
What exactly is funny about it?
It's funny because Native Americans are (probably, let's say one of so that we don't go down that rabbithole) the most oppressed group of people in the history of the country and Warren deluded herself that she was one despite not bearing any of that oppression and has done numerous embarrassing things throughout her life that suggest she didn't take their history seriously, like writing a cook book called Pow Wow Chow and saying her high cheek bones were how she knew she was Native American. And it can't even be argued that it was purely from a place of ignorance, unless her parents lied to her about this, which idk maybe they did:
I also think it's funny just on a personal level that many people on the board treat my caring about this as a form of mental illness. That's hilarious.
It's funny because Native Americans are (probably, let's say one of so that we don't go down that rabbithole) the most oppressed group of people in the history of the country and Warren deluded herself that she was one despite not bearing any of that oppression and has done numerous embarrassing things throughout her life that suggest she didn't take their history seriously, like writing a cook book called Pow Wow Chow and saying her high cheek bones were how she knew she was Native American. And it can't even be argued that it was purely from a place of ignorance, unless her parents lied to her about this, which idk maybe they did:
I also think it's funny just on a personal level that many people on the board treat my caring about this as a form of mental illness. That's hilarious.
She didn't write the cookbook just submitted some recipes. What people are making a stink about with it is that she almost certainly copied her contributions to it from other publications and identified as Cherokee while doing it. Her husband did the same thing. Which, I think, is the more bizarre part. To be fair, this was for a small publication so I don't think they did it for any gain.
Warren was clearly proud of her perceived Native American heritage and cared about Native American issues, that's why she has such a long record of supporting said issues dating all the way back to her DNA test embarrassment earlier this year, and why she was so strongly involved in the DAPL protests
Post by Ken Sumar on Sept 30, 2019 13:41:33 GMT -5
Pablo,
I'm not sure how old you are, but I'm assuming you must be familiar with the wars following the breakup of the former Yugoslavia led by Milosevic since you have a specific opinion on that. In my mind, it was one of the two times the West (under the auspices of the U.N./K-For) needed to get involved. Serbia was the core of old Soviet-styled power (think Putin and the KGB). It roughly went down like this: Slovenia (borders Italy, Austria, Croatia and Hungary) declares their independence, and Serbia (representing the old power structure which at the time was Serbia-Montenegro) declares war on them. They realize they can't exactly invade Slovenia since they don't share any borders and give up in about a week. Slovenia gets its independence. Next was Croatia. Croatia was more allied with Germany and is a Catholic nation whereas most of the rest of the eastern former Yugoslavia are Eastern Orthodox and tended to be allied with Moscow. Croatia declares independence and Serbia says no dice. They battle back and forth with each occasionally gaining the upper hand supplied with arms from their respective proxies. In the end, Croatia wins the war after an offensive to remove some of the ethnic-Serbian enclaves which the ethnic Serbians wanted to be parts of Serbia within Croatia.
Meanwhile, Serbia decides to dig in for the ethnic Serbs after a referendum on independence passes which they boycotted. Serbia launches attacks within Bosnia and Herzegovina. Remember, Bosnia is comprised of many intermarried families of Bosnian-Serbs, Bosnia-Croats and Muslims who made up the largest share of the population. Serbia dug in and the Croats armed the ethnic Croats. Genocide in Europe was unfolding under the moniker of ethnic cleansing. Serbs were killing Muslims and Croats and Croats were killing Serbs (and occasionally Muslims who they later struck an alliance with). The U.S. became involved via the U.N. auspices of K-For. The American rightwing went nuts over this because of course the US was bending to the will of a world government and wearing its uniforms! "Clinton! Clinton! Clinton! Clinton!" is anti American blah blah blah blah blah. K-For goes in an secures peace and mostly only fights against the Serbians because they are the bad-guys/aggressive assholes anyway. Ultimately many of the players on all sides are convicted of genocide or ethnic cleansing and locked up.
Fast forward 5 years or so and Slobodan Milosevic is still at it but this time against Ethnic Albanians (Muslims) within Serbia. NATO said fuck you, we have had enough of your bullshit already and are going to punish you until you stop the bullshit . This carved out Kosovo and gave the ethnic Albanians a country of their own (think Saddam Hussein going after the Kurds in the Northern 3rd of Iraq). These were bad people who were holding onto cold war dictatorial ideals and thought nothing of killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians. I think at this point it was Serbia-Montenegro (who later voted themselves a divorce) as Macedonia (who Greece threatened with fighting over the name - like wtf was that?) dropped out and just said screw this. The first round of wars was over then, so they sort of just did their own thing.
As far as what I dislike about Bernie, there are certain foreign policy positions he takes or has taken that I disagree with. There are interventions he has supported in the past like bombing Yugoslavia that I'm not happy with. Mostly stuff that I'm sure everyone voted for, but a touchy point for me. Occasionally he'll fire off a tweet about Israel or something that I don't care for. I still think he's better than the other candidates as far as being dove-ish, but I'm such a peacenik that any serious candidate for president is going to disappoint me at times.
Warren, Biden, and every other realistic candidate in this race is easily more hawkish than Bernie
As far as what I dislike about Bernie, there are certain foreign policy positions he takes or has taken that I disagree with. There are interventions he has supported in the past like bombing Yugoslavia that I'm not happy with. Mostly stuff that I'm sure everyone voted for, but a touchy point for me. Occasionally he'll fire off a tweet about Israel or something that I don't care for. I still think he's better than the other candidates as far as being dove-ish, but I'm such a peacenik that any serious candidate for president is going to disappoint me at times.
Warren, Biden, and every other realistic candidate in this race is easily more hawkish than Bernie
Oh, I know.
Thank you Esteban for the background. I'm not really old enough to have known all about that. I think I was around nine when that happened.
As far as questioning what your parents tell you about your heritage, I think I've mentioned here before that my dad told me we might be related to Pochahontas at some point, and I pretty much immediately thought that was bullshit, and that was again when I was something like nine years old. But my heritage has never really been something that interests me, so maybe that's not a fair comparison. Some people take more pride in it.
It's similar to how, despite my dad being a hardcore Republican and eventual Trump supporter, I was anti-Bush by the time I was 13 or 14. Now, if Warren's political alignment changed along the way later than mine did, that's fine. I just would like for her to have a more robust explanation for why. I don't really buy her answer that she gave on the Breakfast Club, that she was never political and just sorta was Republican because her parents were, until she was in her mid-40s. I think that, if she had a good story about her transformation, it could actually be very inspiring (beginning to care about the oppressed, seeing the damage the GOP was doing to the country and the world, etc) and be a real strength. Instead she just kind of waves her hands and says "idk I never really thought about it" despite being a grown woman who was highly educated and in a position of power even then. So that whole Republican thing, I understand that it's in the past and that people can change, but her answers for that have been troubling, so I don't really trust that she will be motivated to push single-payer, which aside from climate change is the most important issue for me.
I’m sure all kids ask their parents for proof when they’re told their heritage.. it’s a ridiculous, played out topic
You mean I’m not really from the British aristocracy? Damn.
Apparently I am related to some small European royalty family. I forget how, but I think my dad had some information with his family crest. I always wanted to call up my royal relatives, but my parents were all: “Yeah, no. Definitely not.”
All I heard was “people can evolve!” When it came to Obama and gay marriage, or any other number of Democrats who shifted views on important issues over time, Warren has been a solid Democrat while a senator, she’s not going pull off a Scooby Doo style mask if elected and be all “I was a Republican the whole time!”
Post by piggy pablo on Sept 30, 2019 14:54:05 GMT -5
I'm not a huge Obama fan, either, and I have similar criticisms of his governance. I actually think of Warren as fairly similar to Obama. He ran on Change in the way that she is, but delivered little of it, which is ultimately what I expect from her. I don't foresee a Scooby-Doo ending where she is a Republican, but rather an Obama. I think that she's more interested in using progressive rhetoric to get elected than seeing that progressive policies are enacted once she is in office.
Take, for example, her campaign finance strategy. That's sorta like what Obama did. At first he said he wouldn't take corporate money, and that's probably the initial thing that garnered my support in the primary (I'm not completely sure if I voted in the primary, because I turned 18 in 2008, but I did support him over Clinton and Edwards). But that all changed. Warren is open about her plan to take corporate money in the general, which is at least honest, but I don't really understand the point of refusing it in the primary. Maybe it's just to appeal to the progressives while she still has to, and maybe she doesn't need the money because she rolled so much over from the Senate campaign.
Post by piggy pablo on Sept 30, 2019 15:10:54 GMT -5
New least-favorite thing about Bernie: I have gotten like a zillion fundraising texts ahead of today's FEC deadline. I'll probably donate again, but jeez.
I’m sure all kids ask their parents for proof when they’re told their heritage.. it’s a ridiculous, played out topic
Most kids don’t go on to use that information in their professional career and certainly not in a public sphere.
Some do, and so what? She believed what her parents told her, and received no preferential treatment because of it professionally, as the institutions she has worked for have stated on record.
Most kids don’t go on to use that information in their professional career and certainly not in a public sphere.
Some do, and so what? She believed what her parents told her, and received no preferential treatment because of it professionally, as the institutions she has worked for have stated on record.
I think it’s disrespectful to claim that when you’re in her position and at least have the potential for it to work to your advantage and not even double check. It’s not a dealbreaker but it’s an eyebrow raiser for sure and her handling of the whole thing makes me question her ability to lead with the scrutiny that the presidency brings.
Post by piggy pablo on Sept 30, 2019 15:57:28 GMT -5
"Kids"
Elizabeth Warren is 70 years old and claimed Native heritage until she was, what, 69?
I don't need it to have advanced her career to be bothered by it, but regardless, I can see how those institutions would say that even if it actually had helped her, in order to save face. Didn't Harvard claim she was their first WOC faculty? They at least thought it was worth celebrating.
It's just a gross and self-centered thing for non-Natives to do: attach themselves to a culture in some way that they actually have no interest in participating in and no experience with, particularly when that group still suffers and can never recover from a legacy of genocide and stolen land. Whether it advanced her career or not, it is wrong and unserious for her to be so proud of something that was not connected to any of her actual life experiences.
You're acting like it's nuts that someone from OKLAHOMA might believe they have native blood if their parents tell them without a doubt that they do. She did none of this maliciously.