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Sad that we have to make sure to include “bad” acts to make it more like Bonnaroo.
The reL irony is the Bonnaroo Draft started bc the 2016 lineup was so bad that everyone said, “I could book a better Bonnaroo.” So the draft was started to prove that 20-25 unique lineups could be booked, with exclusivity and other factors, that were better than what Bonnaroo put together.
Now we’re actively trying to book a Bonnaroo that has trash in it.... we’ve come full circle.
We are on a Bonnaroo message board. It’s not a bad place to gauge interest in make believe Bonnaroo lineups. We aren’t trying to make money here and we aren’t selling to a target demo. If it’s not about making realistic, but quality lineups, then the focus of the game should just be, “which lineup looks like it could be Bonnaroo 2021 the most?”
I get the vision for the game. But will people really be voting based on how realistic it is for Bonnaroo, or really how much they like the lineup?
Yeah this is my worry. If people just aren’t going to vote in that way then we may as well do modern festival draft like others are basically asking for
Guys I honestly think this is as simple as making a lineup that would sell at least 70,000 tickets, includes all of the genres at Bonnaroo (rock, hip hop, edm, bluegrass, jam etc.), and uses all of the stages at Bonnaroo. The Other Stage is up for debate but you can make it so that stage doesn't completely suck. Anything else is just overthinking this.
Post by Delicious Meatball Sub on Jul 22, 2020 13:42:50 GMT -5
Everyone talks about game about “realism” now but then just votes for whatever poster has more bands they like/want to signal they like. Let’s just not waste more time debating this, ya?
I get the vision for the game. But will people really be voting based on how realistic it is for Bonnaroo, or really how much they like the lineup?
Yeah this is my worry. If people just aren’t going to vote in that way then we may as well do modern festival draft like others are basically asking for
there have been 4 other opportunity's in the past to do those that they could have hopped on, this is our chance to do something new and interesting for once. people voted based on a combination of realism and taste in the coachella draft, it wont be very hard to do so again.
i think we just need to get a ruleset out there asap, otherwise we can go in circles about this forever.
Guys I honestly think this is as simple as making a lineup that would sell at least 70,000 tickets, includes all of the genres at Bonnaroo (rock, hip hop, edm, bluegrass, jam etc.), and uses all of the stages at Bonnaroo. The Other Stage is up for debate but you can make it so that stage doesn't completely suck. Anything else is just overthinking this.
The only restrictions I think we should have to make this more “realistic” are requirements to fill Bonnaroo “staples”:
1) include all genres typically represented on a Bonnaroo lineup (including jam) 2) must have 2 unique and realistic superjams, plus a bluegrass SJ 3) include the same stages as Bonnaroo. The Other can be a stage or tent, but either way shouldn’t have the edm/hip hop only restriction. 4) have a specific number of acts. This would make trading picks and free agents an issue tho? So maybe not. 5) Option to include comedy and cinema tents? Roo has moved away from them, but like the switch with the other it’s very recent and I would say having them is more of a staple than not having them.
The first 3 are pretty important I think. I don’t have strong feelings in the last two.
Everyone talks about game about “realism” now but then just votes for whatever poster has more bands they like/want to signal they like. Let’s just not waste more time debating this, ya?
No disrespect to TrueVine but this really stood out to me in this infinity
Everyone talks about game about “realism” now but then just votes for whatever poster has more bands they like/want to signal they like. Let’s just not waste more time debating this, ya?
No disrespect to TrueVine but this really stood out to me in this infinity
Maybe if you had him design your poster you would still be in the competition.
The only restrictions I think we should have to make this more “realistic” are requirements to fill Bonnaroo “staples”:
1) include all genres typically represented on a Bonnaroo lineup (including jam) 2) must have 2 unique and realistic superjams, plus a bluegrass SJ 3) include the same stages as Bonnaroo. The Other can be a stage or tent, but either way shouldn’t have the edm/hip hop only restriction. 4) have a specific number of acts. This would make trading picks and free agents an issue tho? So maybe not. 5) Option to include comedy and cinema tents? Roo has moved away from them, but like the switch with the other it’s very recent and I would say having them is more of a staple than not having them.
The first 3 are pretty important I think. I don’t have strong feelings in the last two.
I think we're saying a lot of the same thing. I think one superjam is fine and then having the option to do Grand Ole Opry or Bluegrass Superjam.
The only restrictions I think we should have to make this more “realistic” are requirements to fill Bonnaroo “staples”:
1) include all genres typically represented on a Bonnaroo lineup (including jam) 2) must have 2 unique and realistic superjams, plus a bluegrass SJ 3) include the same stages as Bonnaroo. The Other can be a stage or tent, but either way shouldn’t have the edm/hip hop only restriction. 4) have a specific number of acts. This would make trading picks and free agents an issue tho? So maybe not. 5) Option to include comedy and cinema tents? Roo has moved away from them, but like the switch with the other it’s very recent and I would say having them is more of a staple than not having them.
The first 3 are pretty important I think. I don’t have strong feelings in the last two.
can i ask why you don't want the requirement to move a high volume of tickets? i feel its something we can all judge pretty easily.
The only restrictions I think we should have to make this more “realistic” are requirements to fill Bonnaroo “staples”:
1) include all genres typically represented on a Bonnaroo lineup (including jam) 2) must have 2 unique and realistic superjams, plus a bluegrass SJ 3) include the same stages as Bonnaroo. The Other can be a stage or tent, but either way shouldn’t have the edm/hip hop only restriction. 4) have a specific number of acts. This would make trading picks and free agents an issue tho? So maybe not. 5) Option to include comedy and cinema tents? Roo has moved away from them, but like the switch with the other it’s very recent and I would say having them is more of a staple than not having them.
The first 3 are pretty important I think. I don’t have strong feelings in the last two.
can i ask why you don't want the requirement to move a high volume of tickets? i feel its something we can all judge pretty easily.
there is no objective way to judge that. What I think would move 70k tickets is probably way different than what you think would. And that’s probably different from what actually would. There’s not a good way to measure ticket sales to a fake festival that has no actual ticket sale metric to compare against.
Everyone talks about game about “realism” now but then just votes for whatever poster has more bands they like/want to signal they like. Let’s just not waste more time debating this, ya?
It feels like such a frivolous argument this early on when the first rounds are gonna be HL and mid tier. and imagine us first trying to pull 45-48 HL's out of our idled minds 48 guys.....
Post by Whereispassionpit on Jul 22, 2020 14:08:14 GMT -5
I think The Other should be considered an outdoor stage with room and production/visuals capable of hosting acts as big as Kaskade/Marshmello/etc. If you choose to put Ben Folds there or w/e then that's your choice.
Everyone talks about game about “realism” now but then just votes for whatever poster has more bands they like/want to signal they like. Let’s just not waste more time debating this, ya?
It feels like such a frivolous argument this early on when the first rounds are gonna be HL and mid tier. and imagine us first trying to pull 45-48 HL's out of our idled minds 48 guys.....
can i ask why you don't want the requirement to move a high volume of tickets? i feel its something we can all judge pretty easily.
there is no objective way to judge that. What I think would move 70k tickets is probably way different than what you think would. And that’s probably different from what actually would. There’s not a good way to measure ticket sales to a fake festival that has no actual ticket sale metric to compare against.
I really believe for the most part we would be on the same page, but even if there are discrepancies in opinions, that’s part of the game, and people will vote how they will vote, but it should still be established as a goal.
It feels like such a frivolous argument this early on when the first rounds are gonna be HL and mid tier. and imagine us first trying to pull 45-48 HL's out of our idled minds 48 guys.....
is this a challenge?
I just think it makes the Other Stage argument look like a pile of nothing
Everyone talks about game about “realism” now but then just votes for whatever poster has more bands they like/want to signal they like. Let’s just not waste more time debating this, ya?
It feels like such a frivolous argument this early on when the first rounds are gonna be HL and mid tier. and imagine us first trying to pull 45-48 HL's out of our idled minds 48 guys.....
I was thinking that some headliners should be able to be drafted twice - or maybe even more. It’s rare (if ever) that a headliner pool is made up of exclusives. I get that luck has something to do with this, but whoever ends up with Frank, Adele, Radiohead, Kendrick, etc will be at an advantage to those settling for Green Day and The Killers.
can i ask why you don't want the requirement to move a high volume of tickets? i feel its something we can all judge pretty easily.
there is no objective way to judge that. What I think would move 70k tickets is probably way different than what you think would. And that’s probably different from what actually would. There’s not a good way to measure ticket sales to a fake festival that has no actual ticket sale metric to compare against.
I see what you're saying, but if you booked a Bonnaroo lineup with Sufjan Stevens and Apex Twin as headliners we know that wouldn't move enough tickets. Like this isn't even an aspect we have to overthink either. We don't have to argue "oh I think this lineup would only sell 60k tickets". Just book a Bonnaroo sized lineup that won't lose money.
Headliners gotta be clear headliners and I think we have spent enough years arguing over such things. Like I wouldn’t bump QOTSA just for the sake of filling a top spot.
It feels like such a frivolous argument this early on when the first rounds are gonna be HL and mid tier. and imagine us first trying to pull 45-48 HL's out of our idled minds 48 guys.....
I was thinking that some headliners should be able to be drafted twice - or maybe even more. It’s rare (if ever) that a headliner pool is made up of exclusives. I get that luck has something to do with this, but whoever ends up with Frank, Adele, Radiohead, Kendrick, etc will be at an advantage to those settling for Green Day and The Killers.
this is a whole can of worms we considered in the coachella draft, I was one of the people that was for it but I’m not very high on it here.
Yeah, I think it is pretty easy to decide what is realistic and what isn't. Could they book a Sufjan or an Aphex Twin? Absolutely, they booked unique Bon Iver shows. There just won't be more than 2 acts like that at the top of the card.
Post by Jake Jortles on Jul 22, 2020 14:27:42 GMT -5
I don't feel like this is that difficult to understand.
You are given the job to book the actual Bonnaroo 2021 Lineup.
Sell enough tickets to keep Bonnaroo alive: No bullshit lineups that are way to small or niche. Justice couldn't headline. Black Midi could not hold down late night which.
Impress Inforoo voters and make it better. Improve it's identity
Pay some amount of homage to Bonnaroo's recent and / or early identity (couple jam bands, retain some amount of Other Stage fan base while making it better)
The importance of any amount of straying from the above can be interpreted and debated when it comes time to vote. It would be a good thing, for instance, to stray from Bonnaroo's current % of artists / groups that are female. That would be a good stray in my mind. Booking Aphex Twin for LN Which would be a good stray. Booking Sufjan to headline The What Stage on Friday is the bullshit that ppl should aim to avoid. He clearly would play a smaller stage at Bonnaroo. That is the kind of realism we are talking about. A lineup that is fully one genre would be a drastic change that would likely be considered to be a bad stray. But you can argue whatever you want come voting time.
Post by problem dog on Jul 22, 2020 14:33:01 GMT -5
I feel like everyone saying you've got to book a realistic EDM stage or lose votes for "realism" is trying to mindfuck the rest of the field into handicapping themselves with a bunch of garbage. Hard pass.
48 guys.....
