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Even if we were to accept that screenshot as evidence then it works be an example of an act becoming eligible during the course of the draft and they'd only be eligible as a few agent for everyone.
The "potentially active" wording has always rankled me because the rules are supposed to clear up grey areas, not create more of them. The bigger factor to me is the part in the rules that says:
An artist is considered "active" if they have had or will have three public performances of five or more songs between 1/1/16 and 12/31/21 (This eliminates things like Rock and Roll Hall of fame performances, one-offs for benefits, awards show reunions, talk/variety show appearances, etc.). One of these three public performances has to be in the US.
They don't meet these criteria, and nothing has been officially announced to suggest otherwise. CDev's point summed it up well. They're not active in the US, and even if they are planning a 2021 tour (and TBH who knows how that will pan out with COVID), that's info that's neither available to the public, nor announced prior to the start of the draft.
1) Only "active" or potentially active acts can be drafted. An artist is considered "active" if they have had or will have three public performances of five or more songs between 1/1/16 and 12/31/21 (This eliminates things like Rock and Roll Hall of fame performances, one-offs for benefits, awards show reunions, talk/variety show appearances, etc.). One of these three public performances has to be in the US. An artist would be considered inactive if they don't meet the live performance requirements or if there is credible documentation that an act has broken up, has no plans of touring, are focusing on other projects, does not play in this country, etc.
They have two non-public shows (both at "private venues"), one of which does not have five songs:
None of their future shows that were cancelled due to Covid were in the US.
In the event that we were to accept a screenshot as evidence of three potential qualifying shows, one of which being in the US, then we would still have to address the fact that that screenshot would be an example of an act becoming eligible during the course of the draft. In that case, rule 16 applies:
16) If an act previously thought to be inactive at the start of the draft becomes active during the course of the draft, it is available to all as an undrafted free agent. Any act that become inactive during the draft and has been drafted already, is still able to be on the lineup of the team that drafted them.
Post by Dave Maynar on Aug 17, 2020 10:17:03 GMT -5
How long have these guys been active? The google search shows their debut studio album came out two months ago, so an expectation of shows in the US may be somewhat excessive if they have only been a band for a small while.
The "potentially active" wording has always rankled me because the rules are supposed to clear up grey areas, not create more of them. The bigger factor to me is the part in the rules that says:
An artist is considered "active" if they have had or will have three public performances of five or more songs between 1/1/16 and 12/31/21 (This eliminates things like Rock and Roll Hall of fame performances, one-offs for benefits, awards show reunions, talk/variety show appearances, etc.). One of these three public performances has to be in the US.
They don't meet these criteria, and nothing has been officially announced to suggest otherwise. CDev's point summed it up well. They're not active in the US, and even if they are planning a 2021 tour (and TBH who knows how that will pan out with COVID), that's info that's neither available to the public, nor announced prior to the start of the draft.
"Potentially active" is not a grey area in this case, I got direct confirmation from the band that they plan on playing the US. There can't be a more clear example of someone being "potentially active" I posted it publicly. Saying "who knows how that will pan out with COVID" makes no sense, since that could apply to literally every single artist picked so far.
1) Only "active" or potentially active acts can be drafted. An artist is considered "active" if they have had or will have three public performances of five or more songs between 1/1/16 and 12/31/21 (This eliminates things like Rock and Roll Hall of fame performances, one-offs for benefits, awards show reunions, talk/variety show appearances, etc.). One of these three public performances has to be in the US. An artist would be considered inactive if they don't meet the live performance requirements or if there is credible documentation that an act has broken up, has no plans of touring, are focusing on other projects, does not play in this country, etc.
They have two non-public shows (both at "private venues"), one of which does not have five songs:
How long have these guys been active? The google search shows their debut studio album came out two months ago, so an expectation of shows in the US may be somewhat excessive if they have only been a band for a small while.
Mans really went out here and did the work to confirm that they want to play US dates and people are still voting against this poll smh
The rules say that an act that becomes eligible during the draft must be selected as a free agent. So while he may have provided evidence to make them eligible, that evidence came during the draft therefore they can't be drafted- but they can be free agented
Mans really went out here and did the work to confirm that they want to play US dates and people are still voting against this poll smh
The rules say that an act that becomes eligible during the draft must be selected as a free agent. So while he may have provided evidence to make them eligible, that evidence came during the draft therefore they can't be drafted- but they can be free agented
Wasn't there already a discussion about how the intent of that rule was to account for someone like Led Zeppelin announcing shows during the draft?
The rules say that an act that becomes eligible during the draft must be selected as a free agent. So while he may have provided evidence to make them eligible, that evidence came during the draft therefore they can't be drafted- but they can be free agented
Wasn't there already a discussion about how the intent of that rule was to account for someone like Led Zeppelin announcing shows during the draft?
This is not that. People didn't miss the chance to pick this band because they thought they were inactive, they weren't picked because people didn't know they existed.
This is not that. People didn't miss the chance to pick this band because they thought they were inactive, they weren't picked because people didn't know they existed.
Yeah you're right, the rule is in there for Led Zeppelin and Led Zeppelin only lmao
I don't understand how we've done more than a handful of drafts with everyone having a clear understanding of the rules, but this draft is ridiculously petty. This isnt a new rule, and I understand why you're frustrated- but you're also on the only people who seems to have issues with every single little rule. Rules that everyone else has been drafting by for a couple years now
Post by problem dog on Aug 17, 2020 10:36:02 GMT -5
They didn't become eligible during the draft. That's assigning way too much importance to the DMs. If they generally intend to tour the US, we can safely assume that intent was there before someone from Inforoo contacted them. They're either eligible to be drafted or they're not, the issue here is the lack of any scheduled US dates and how you interpret "potentially active." Saying they can be added as a free agent is some overwrought galaxy brain nonsense that's clearly against the spirit of the rule.
They didn't become eligible during the draft. That's assigning way too much importance to the DMs. If they generally intend to tour the US, we can safely assume that intent was there before someone from Inforoo contacted them. They're either eligible to be drafted or they're not, the issue here is the lack of any scheduled US dates and how you interpret "potentially active." Saying they can be added as a free agent is some overwrought galaxy brain nonsense that's clearly against the spirit of the rule.
He selected the act the other day. When he found out that there were no US shows and people pushed back he reselected. Then he messaged the band and happened to get a response. Absent that response he wouldn't have bothered to repick because it was clear that it was ineligible. Thus it was an ineligible pick that became eligible during the course of the draft.
(Assuming that you're willing to accept that they became eligible at all. Personally, I don't think that they'll play a US show before 12/31/21.)
cdevaney did you see my reply where I showed they have way more than 3 public performances?
I saw it. We have no way of knowing what those sets were but I'm willing to cede that they've played three public shows of likely more than five songs. I still don't think that they'll play in the US in the time frame. They're not coming to the US with all this Covid stuff going on. Who knows when it'll be resolved and when people are willing to gamble money on an international tour to the US from a new and largely unknown artist?
They didn't become eligible during the draft. That's assigning way too much importance to the DMs. If they generally intend to tour the US, we can safely assume that intent was there before someone from Inforoo contacted them. They're either eligible to be drafted or they're not, the issue here is the lack of any scheduled US dates and how you interpret "potentially active." Saying they can be added as a free agent is some overwrought galaxy brain nonsense that's clearly against the spirit of the rule.
He selected the act the other day. When he found out that there were no US shows and people pushed back he reselected. Then he messaged the band and happened to get a response. Absent that response he wouldn't have bothered to repick because it was clear that it was ineligible. Thus it was an ineligible pick that became eligible during the course of the draft.
(Assuming that you're willing to accept that they became eligible at all. Personally, I don't think that they'll play a US show before 12/31/21.)
But this isn't a change in their status, it's just additional information that might change our perception of their status. Allowing them to be picked up by anyone in free agency is a weird outcome that I personally feels muddies the water and could leave us with another inconclusive Despacio decision.
cdevaney did you see my reply where I showed they have way more than 3 public performances?
I saw it. We have no way of knowing what those sets were but I'm willing to cede that they've played three public shows of likely more than five songs. I still don't think that they'll play in the US in the time frame. They're not coming to the US with all this Covid stuff going on. Who knows when it'll be resolved and when people are willing to gamble money on an international tour to the US from a new and largely unknown artist?
What lol? I don't believe a single act being picked will play in the US in the time frame. I don't think there will be festivals in 2021. How is that relevant at all? I showed the clearest possible proof that this act is active.
In this fantasy draft world COVID isn't an issue in 2021 and I'm the one "willing to gamble money" on this act.
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