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i hold two simultaneous thoughts in my head that i don't think are contradictory: the world has never been better, and it could be even better.
which sounds like a crazy assertion in the face of the general vibe of negativity, but i think many of the negative takes on the outlook of the world do so with very short time frames, like the past 50 or maybe even 20 years. but if you go back 200 years, the progress humanity has made is absolutely astonishing.
1. since 1820, the % of the world population living in extreme poverty has gone from 89% to 10%.
2. since 1800, literacy has gone from 12% to 86%
3. In 1800, 43% of all humans died in the first five years of their lives. Today that number is just under 4%.
4. In 1816, <1% of the population lived in a democracy. 38% of people lived in colonies. today ~56% of the world lives in a democracy, and there are no colonies.
5. It's harder to type out the numbers on education, but even going back just to 1970 the world is far more educated than it used to be.
it's really insane the amount of progress we've made as a species during that time.
we have not made enough progress on climate change, but there are positive signs, things like solar getting cheaper as well as lithium batteries. i can't provide detailed hopium for this topic, but i believe we will find a solution. it ain't going to come from politicians, it's going to come from smart people grinding in labs and market-based solutions (i.e. renewables just getting so cheap it doesn't make sense to use coal anymore), IMO.
I think the issue with the climate change thing is that, even if we switched the entire world to renewables today, we may already be past a tipping point of warming that's going to lead to some catastrophic effects. If humans are going to survive it, there are also going to have to be innovations around that - things that either somehow mitigate those effects (carbon capture? It's going to have to develop a lot in a short amount of time) or make it easier for humans to survive in a dramatically changed climate (lab-grown food or more and better GMOs, desalination at scale, etc.). The shitty thing there is that those sorts of technologies are, of course, going to be made available to, and benefit, the richest people and nations first, if they filter out to less-developed nations at all.
Anyway. It's bleak, but I like to hold on to some shred of hope. Humans are an ornery species.
Do you want to dance while also thinking about all the ways you've failed as a human?
UPCOMING SHOWS 11/21 - Caribou @ Avant Gardner 11/23 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 11/25 - TV on the Radio @ Webster Hall 12/5 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/7 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/14 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center
I'm a no. I've never once had even the smallest urge to have them and I generally don't like being around them much. And I have always said that I am too selfish to have them on top of it. I'm 37 so I can't imagine this will change for me.
That all being said, if I met someone who already had a kid, it wouldn't be a firm no. I dated someone in the past that had one and I actually didn't mind it. I think it was okay mostly because of the split custody and having easy nights child-free.
I have always liked the idea of being a grandparent. Once upon a time I assumed I'd meet someone and they would have an older child. Not the way it worked out, which is totally cool with me.
i hold two simultaneous thoughts in my head that i don't think are contradictory: the world has never been better, and it could be even better.
which sounds like a crazy assertion in the face of the general vibe of negativity, but i think many of the negative takes on the outlook of the world do so with very short time frames, like the past 50 or maybe even 20 years. but if you go back 200 years, the progress humanity has made is absolutely astonishing.
1. since 1820, the % of the world population living in extreme poverty has gone from 89% to 10%.
2. since 1800, literacy has gone from 12% to 86%
3. In 1800, 43% of all humans died in the first five years of their lives. Today that number is just under 4%.
4. In 1816, <1% of the population lived in a democracy. 38% of people lived in colonies. today ~56% of the world lives in a democracy, and there are no colonies.
5. It's harder to type out the numbers on education, but even going back just to 1970 the world is far more educated than it used to be.
it's really insane the amount of progress we've made as a species during that time.
we have not made enough progress on climate change, but there are positive signs, things like solar getting cheaper as well as lithium batteries. i can't provide detailed hopium for this topic, but i believe we will find a solution. it ain't going to come from politicians, it's going to come from smart people grinding in labs and market-based solutions (i.e. renewables just getting so cheap it doesn't make sense to use coal anymore), IMO.
I think the issue with the climate change thing is that, even if we switched the entire world to renewables today, we may already be past a tipping point of warming that's going to lead to some catastrophic effects. If humans are going to survive it, there are also going to have to be innovations around that - things that either somehow mitigate those effects (carbon capture? It's going to have to develop a lot in a short amount of time) or make it easier for humans to survive in a dramatically changed climate (lab-grown food or more and better GMOs, desalination at scale, etc.). The shitty thing there is that those sorts of technologies are, of course, going to be made available to, and benefit, the richest people and nations first, if they filter out to less-developed nations at all.
Anyway. It's bleak, but I like to hold on to some shred of hope. Humans are an ornery species.
100% this.
i know there are tons of groundbreaking technologies out there already / being worked on right now, and it is very exciting! my work revolves around some of these technologies (#LetsGoHeatPumps #ElectrificationOrGTFO). but as Jorge pointed out, this tipping point thing isn't considered gravely enough by most people.
think of a train going 60 mph towards its destination. and then its brakes fail; they suddenly just dont work at all. a cliff is approaching, and if the brakes were working, all would be fine - but they arent, and disaster is near.
that's realllllllly close to where we are at re: the climate crisis. our brakes in bad shape and could full-on fail at any point now.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
I plan to have kids assuming the finances are there. I have a good and supportive family and I would enjoy it.
One of my old bosses told me that if you wait until you can afford kids, you might never have them. But then I know some professional people who waited into their mid to late 30's to have kids once they were established in their careers. And that all turned out fine. So who knows? There are no easy answers and no generic solutions.
I plan to have kids assuming the finances are there. I have a good and supportive family and I would enjoy it.
One of my old bosses told me that if you wait until you can afford kids, you might never have them. But then I know some professional people who waited into their mid to late 30's to have kids once they were established in their careers. And that all turned out fine. So who knows? There are no easy answers and no generic solutions.
I will say as someone that had a kid at 22, you make it happen. It might REALLY suck at some points and I hated telling Kyle we couldn't afford shit, but he's very mindful of his money now. So hidden plus.
I think the biggest thing is regardless of the future state of our world is, if you want children and that is your thing, GREAT. If not, GREAT, live your best live and fuck everyone else. I never wanted children, but I do not regret Kyle. I did tell him he can't have a kid until I am older than 50, so I have a few more years. But Idk if he will, he isn't into the whole kid thing either.
One of my old bosses told me that if you wait until you can afford kids, you might never have them. But then I know some professional people who waited into their mid to late 30's to have kids once they were established in their careers. And that all turned out fine. So who knows? There are no easy answers and no generic solutions.
I will say as someone that had a kid at 22, you make it happen. It might REALLY suck at some points and I hated telling Kyle we couldn't afford shit, but he's very mindful of his money now. So hidden plus.
I think the biggest thing is regardless of the future state of our world is, if you want children and that is your thing, GREAT. If not, GREAT, live your best live and fuck everyone else. I never wanted children, but I do not regret Kyle. I did tell him he can't have a kid until I am older than 50, so I have a few more years. But Idk if he will, he isn't into the whole kid thing either.
That's exactly what you do. We laugh about it now, but living off my then $9.00/hour job and her part time work and student loans while paying for daycare wasn't easy. Before you get established and have shitty benefits like 1 or 2 weeks of vacation a year and 5 sick days if you're lucky - things can be difficult to navigate when one of them wakes up feeling ill or gets sick for 3-4 days and you just have to deal with it or bring them to work or whatever. I figured there were people who had it way worse than me who make shit work, so I'll figure it out. That's how I learned to drive a standard when I got my first own car. I figured if everyone else can drive a standard, I can figure out how to balance being in stop and go traffic on the high rise in New Orleans East without hopefully the car dying or sliding back and hitting the car behind me. Same philosophy - no excuses because too many other people can do it.
I will say as someone that had a kid at 22, you make it happen. It might REALLY suck at some points and I hated telling Kyle we couldn't afford shit, but he's very mindful of his money now. So hidden plus.
I think the biggest thing is regardless of the future state of our world is, if you want children and that is your thing, GREAT. If not, GREAT, live your best live and fuck everyone else. I never wanted children, but I do not regret Kyle. I did tell him he can't have a kid until I am older than 50, so I have a few more years. But Idk if he will, he isn't into the whole kid thing either.
That's exactly what you do. We laugh about it now, but living off my then $9.00/hour job and her part time work and student loans while paying for daycare wasn't easy. Before you get established and have shitty benefits like 1 or 2 weeks of vacation a year and 5 sick days if you're lucky - things can be difficult to navigate when one of them wakes up feeling ill or gets sick for 3-4 days and you just have to deal with it or bring them to work or whatever. I figured there were people who had it way worse than me who make shit work, so I'll figure it out. That's how I learned to drive a standard when I got my first own car. I figured if everyone else can drive a standard, I can figure out how to balance being in stop and go traffic on the high rise in New Orleans East without hopefully the car dying or sliding back and hitting the car behind me. Same philosophy - no excuses because too many other people can do it.
And I did it without a partner. Sometimes I really don't know how I did it. LOL
But yeah, kids are great if you are into them, but nobody should be forced or viewed poorly because they choose not to have kids. This world is hard, and a disaster, I couldn't imagine bringing one into it currently.
I plan to have kids assuming the finances are there. I have a good and supportive family and I would enjoy it.
One of my old bosses told me that if you wait until you can afford kids, you might never have them. But then I know some professional people who waited into their mid to late 30's to have kids once they were established in their careers. And that all turned out fine. So who knows? There are no easy answers and no generic solutions.
Pretty certain I’ll end up having kids. Seems like a short cut to fulfillment.
I wouldn’t trade it.
I was an extremely irresponsible mfer who had to come to the realization I was about to be taking on responsibility for another person’s life. Since I was already reckless, it forced accountability there. For anyone who can accept the obligations, power to you. I still don’t know how I pulled shit off having 3, but like I said, I wouldn’t trade it. Like you said, fulfillment (joy and happiness).
Climate change argument for not wanting kids is cringe. Idc if you want kids or not but blaming it on something inevitable and macro like that is weird.
Do you want to dance while also thinking about all the ways you've failed as a human?
UPCOMING SHOWS 11/21 - Caribou @ Avant Gardner 11/23 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 11/25 - TV on the Radio @ Webster Hall 12/5 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/7 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/14 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center
Climate change argument for not wanting kids is cringe. Idc if you want kids or not but blaming it on something inevitable and macro like that is weird.
"blaming it?"
your language is so completely stigmatizing people who choose to be childfree. if you have to cast blame upon something for a choice, it explicitly indicates that the choice is a bad one.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
They're going to rebel and like Imagine Dragons and Michael Bay movies
This is my worry with my daughter. Her rebellion against my socialist ass is going to be to grow up to be Alex P. Keaton.
Be prepared, but my experience is they come back around. Lo had a period of swinging right while hanging out with a friend with those politics and then a period of being just a complete and utter jackass who I thought was surely headed straight to the ole Gray Bar Hotel like his dad. Then he came back around and is actually super fucking cool. Understands the ways of the world, is patient and kind, listens to great music, fixes up my VWs.
The younger one started out going to Occupy protests with me, defended socialist policies to his friend's father, cleaned up trash around the neighborhood and got his elementary school to stop using styrofoam. Next thing I know he is listening to Ben Shapiro. Oye. College seems to be bringing him back around, but he still thinks I am way out there.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
This is my worry with my daughter. Her rebellion against my socialist ass is going to be to grow up to be Alex P. Keaton.
Be prepared, but my experience is they come back around. Lo had a period of swinging right while hanging out with a friend with those politics and then a period of being just a complete and utter jackass who I thought was surely headed straight to the ole Gray Bar Hotel like his dad. Then he came back around and is actually super fucking cool. Understands the ways of the world, is patient and kind, listens to great music, fixes up my VWs.
The younger one started out going to Occupy protests with me, defended socialist policies to his friend's father, cleaned up trash around the neighborhood and got his elementary school to stop using styrofoam. Next thing I know he is listening to Ben Shapiro. Oye. College seems to be bringing him back around, but he still thinks I am way out there.
I feel like this is a particular thing for boys, these days. Understanding the nuances of a lot of gender criticism on the left can be complicated/require a level of self-awareness and ability to de-center one's self that I don't think a lot of pre-adolescent and teen boys possess (and too many grown men, but that's another discussion). Meanwhile, along come the Shapiros of the world with easy answers (total awful bullshit, but dressed up fancy) that appeal to big, basic emotions and make the listener feel like they're somehow intellectually elevated for entertaining them. It's basically catnip for kids who are trying to understand their place in the world and dealing with a lot of the usual teenage emotional and mental upheaval.
I'd be curious if there's an equivalent experience for girls of that age in terms of being drawn to the dark side.
Do you want to dance while also thinking about all the ways you've failed as a human?
UPCOMING SHOWS 11/21 - Caribou @ Avant Gardner 11/23 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 11/25 - TV on the Radio @ Webster Hall 12/5 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/7 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/14 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center
Climate change argument for not wanting kids is cringe. Idc if you want kids or not but blaming it on something inevitable and macro like that is weird.
I made the decision before climate change was a thing. It merely reinforced my decision. But don't be condescending on peoples reasonings. It's weird.
I can relate to everyone that got sucked into Yang Gang a couple years ago. Once upon a time I thought Ron Paul was a good idea. *cringe*
Lol. Have you thought about a portfolio in gold?!?!? R Ǝ V O L U T I O N
Most of us were exposed to a dose of crazy and had to overcome it. One of mine was a 7th Day Adventist pamphlet arguing that the papacy was the seat of the Antichrist. Just enough unknown and a sprinkle of truth or something that seems true can turn minds. Probably still more than half of Republicans believe Trump got cheated.
Climate change argument for not wanting kids is cringe. Idc if you want kids or not but blaming it on something inevitable and macro like that is weird.
I made the decision before climate change was a thing. It merely reinforced my decision. But don't be condescending on peoples reasonings. It's weird.
not to mention the fact that uhh....taking MACRO FACTORS into consideration is simply wise and self-aware? like, the economy is a macro thing as well - and the reality is that a lot of Gen Z & millenial folks are simply not in a position to financially support children. so because this is a macro factor, it is "weird" to have it influence your decision?
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Post by stlallison on Jan 20, 2023 11:57:10 GMT -5
I'm in the no chance of having kids of my own boat, but could possibly be up for adoption or fostering later on in life. But even that feels unattainable because 1. I'm already 35 and I'm still feeling like I cherish my freedom and independence too much and 2. WHO THE FUCK HAS THAT KIND OF MONEY?!? I am 99% sure that if it never happens, that will be okay with me.
I was previously married (got married much too young in a high-school sweetheart situation...) and my ex and I tried for a while in my late 20s to get pregnant. Turns out it's not easy for me. We went through very minor first-step infertility treatments and that shit sucked, and we didn't even get into any kind of hardcore IVF type treatments. After about a year of trying, I did conceive, but miscarried about 3 months in. Instead of feeling sad and depressed, it was the most relieved I have ever felt in my life. At that moment is when I realized I was not meant to be a mother to my own child. I was only going through the steps for my partner, not for myself. I'm so glad I was true to myself and my own feelings and got the fuck out of that situation ASAP.
Now I am very thankfully with a partner who shares my same feeling towards not caring about having children of our own. There are many factors in why we don't want kids of our own... including biological, political, social, and economical. We definitely have said "there are already too many people on this planet" and we don't care to contribute to that. But should our personal finances drastically change for the better, the option of adopting is on the table as I know we could give a child who needs it a good and stable home.
I'm in the no chance of having kids of my own boat, but could possibly be up for adoption or fostering later on in life. But even that feels unattainable because 1. I'm already 35 and I'm still feeling like I cherish my freedom and independence too much and 2. WHO THE FUCK HAS THAT KIND OF MONEY?!? I am 99% sure that if it never happens, that will be okay with me.
I was previously married (got married much too young in a high-school sweetheart situation...) and my ex and I tried for a while in my late 20s to get pregnant. Turns out it's not easy for me. We went through very minor first-step infertility treatments and that shit sucked, and we didn't even get into any kind of hardcore IVF type treatments. After about a year of trying, I did conceive, but miscarried about 3 months in. Instead of feeling sad and depressed, it was the most relieved I have ever felt in my life. At that moment is when I realized I was not meant to be a mother to my own child. I was only going through the steps for my partner, not for myself. I'm so glad I was true to myself and my own feelings and got the fuck out of that situation ASAP.
Now I am very thankfully with a partner who shares my same feeling towards not caring about having children of our own. There are many factors in why we don't want kids of our own... including biological, political, social, and economical. We definitely have said "there are already too many people on this planet" and we don't care to contribute to that. But should our personal finances drastically change for the better, the option of adopting is on the table as I know we could give a child who needs it a good and stable home.
whoa now, that's a cringe and weird reason to factor in!!!
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
I made the decision before climate change was a thing. It merely reinforced my decision. But don't be condescending on peoples reasonings. It's weird.
not to mention the fact that uhh....taking MACRO FACTORS into consideration is simply wise and self-aware? like, the economy is a macro thing as well - and the reality is that a lot of Gen Z & millenial folks are simply not in a position to financially support children. so because this is a macro factor, it is "weird" to have it influence your decision?
just a bizarre take through and through.
nobody needs to justify their reasons not to have kids. I do think it's kinda weird when someone is in a position where they can support, have and want kids but don't because of the world being fucked up instead of being like... I'm dope, my people are dope, my kid is gonna be awesome and the world is gonna be a better place because of their existence.
I'm in the no chance of having kids of my own boat, but could possibly be up for adoption or fostering later on in life. But even that feels unattainable because 1. I'm already 35 and I'm still feeling like I cherish my freedom and independence too much and 2. WHO THE FUCK HAS THAT KIND OF MONEY?!? I am 99% sure that if it never happens, that will be okay with me.
I was previously married (got married much too young in a high-school sweetheart situation...) and my ex and I tried for a while in my late 20s to get pregnant. Turns out it's not easy for me. We went through very minor first-step infertility treatments and that shit sucked, and we didn't even get into any kind of hardcore IVF type treatments. After about a year of trying, I did conceive, but miscarried about 3 months in. Instead of feeling sad and depressed, it was the most relieved I have ever felt in my life. At that moment is when I realized I was not meant to be a mother to my own child. I was only going through the steps for my partner, not for myself. I'm so glad I was true to myself and my own feelings and got the fuck out of that situation ASAP.
Now I am very thankfully with a partner who shares my same feeling towards not caring about having children of our own. There are many factors in why we don't want kids of our own... including biological, political, social, and economical. We definitely have said "there are already too many people on this planet" and we don't care to contribute to that. But should our personal finances drastically change for the better, the option of adopting is on the table as I know we could give a child who needs it a good and stable home.
whoa now, that's a cringe and weird reason to factor in!!!
If that's wrong, I don't want to be right
Then again, I also lurk in r/antinatalism from time to time.
I'm in the no chance of having kids of my own boat, but could possibly be up for adoption or fostering later on in life. But even that feels unattainable because 1. I'm already 35 and I'm still feeling like I cherish my freedom and independence too much and 2. WHO THE FUCK HAS THAT KIND OF MONEY?!? I am 99% sure that if it never happens, that will be okay with me.
I was previously married (got married much too young in a high-school sweetheart situation...) and my ex and I tried for a while in my late 20s to get pregnant. Turns out it's not easy for me. We went through very minor first-step infertility treatments and that shit sucked, and we didn't even get into any kind of hardcore IVF type treatments. After about a year of trying, I did conceive, but miscarried about 3 months in. Instead of feeling sad and depressed, it was the most relieved I have ever felt in my life. At that moment is when I realized I was not meant to be a mother to my own child. I was only going through the steps for my partner, not for myself. I'm so glad I was true to myself and my own feelings and got the fuck out of that situation ASAP.
Now I am very thankfully with a partner who shares my same feeling towards not caring about having children of our own. There are many factors in why we don't want kids of our own... including biological, political, social, and economical. We definitely have said "there are already too many people on this planet" and we don't care to contribute to that. But should our personal finances drastically change for the better, the option of adopting is on the table as I know we could give a child who needs it a good and stable home.
whoa now, that's a cringe and weird reason to factor in!!!
Is it? Don't overpopulation and climate change kind of go hand-in-hand?
not to mention the fact that uhh....taking MACRO FACTORS into consideration is simply wise and self-aware? like, the economy is a macro thing as well - and the reality is that a lot of Gen Z & millenial folks are simply not in a position to financially support children. so because this is a macro factor, it is "weird" to have it influence your decision?
just a bizarre take through and through.
nobody needs to justify their reasons not to have kids. I do think it's kinda weird when someone is in a position where they can support, have and want kids but don't because of the world being fucked up instead of being like... I'm dope, my people are dope, my kid is gonna be awesome and the world is gonna be a better place because of their existence.
it really isn't weird. if someone has a ton of anxiety about the state of the world/the climate crisis/the shit that's coming down the pipe in the coming decades, then that anxiety could very well transfer to a not particularly great parenting experience - for them or the kid(s).
sorta surprised at how many people here on inforoo dot com are condemning this line of reasoning for not wanting to birth children into the world right now.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Sometimes I really don't know how I did it. LOL
