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I decided to not have kids because, as someone who has never really had a lot of support from their family, I knew I'd want to be there for my kids through thick and thin. I would want to be there to guide and support them through both their childhood and their adult lives. And honestly, I just can't say that I have any faith in my ability to do that faced with what I've experienced over the last few years. I don't know how to guide myself, much less others, in how to respond to constant environmental disasters that makes your home unlivable, heat waves so intense you can only go outside during the night and early morning, political unrest, unpredictable fluctuations in the cost of living, non-existent affordable housing options, and pandemics that kill millions and leave us disconnected and depressed. You have a good pandemic? I sure didn't.
These aren't things that are just somewhere out there in our future - people are already struggling with these. I've struggled with some of these things. If all this seems far removed from your life, that could be because you are in a position to have a pretty well-paying job or substantial financial support from family, benefit from social privileges, and/or live in a location that hasn't yet experienced many environmental disasters. What if that changes? I feel like I owe it to any kids I'd have to wrestle with that question - what happens when things fall apart? Can we as family (however one defines that) pick up the pieces? I just don't feel confident enough that I can begin to answer that question.
I am from and live in an area that has experienced many environmental disasters including one where I lost 99% everything I had (saved some photos). I'm not disagreeing or arguing with your reasoning and justification. It all makes sense and leads to a well thought out decision. But I still have to ask what guarantees in life does anyone (born) actually have? I can think of two - they will take at least one breath if their lungs work. And they will die. Some will have advantageous circumstances. But the rest of life is a what if. What happens if things don't fall apart? I had a cousin who used to say he always felt like we were near the end of humanity. He was paranoid about that, and it affected him. That was 40 years ago. He passed on, but the world hasn't. What happens when things fall apart? We deal with them as best as we can. Bullshit is always going to be there trying to knock people down or out. Character is defined by getting back up and figuring shit out better. There's no easy answer to losing everything in a fire or earthquake, flood or hurricane. Shit happens. You figure it out just like everything else.
Post by Jim Watson on Jan 23, 2023 11:32:25 GMT -5
I definitely want 1 or 2 kids. For a while I convinced myself I didn't because of how people talk on the internet, but now I know being a parent is 100% something I want to do in my life. I love being alive and it is hard for me to imagine a scenario where the world could be so "bad" that it would be better to have never existed. Being able to "turn the lights on" for one or two new humans that my partner and I can raise and do our best to make them awesome sounds like an essential part of me living a fulfilling life.
I also think its cool that life's whole goal on earth has essentially been to exist, procreate, improve, and repeat for billions of years and it got us this far. Trying to rationalize my way out of that extremely natural process left me feeling lost and isolated in a time when its kind of trendy to say you don't want kids. This isn't to say there aren't plenty of valid reasons, but no reasons felt valid enough to me to go against it. I have a solid career and an amazing partner and a very strong network of family and friends that I'm grateful for and take away a lot of the scarier prospects of being a parent. Got at least another 5 or so years before we are seriously planning for a family, though
Not wanting to have kids because you’re anxious about the future seems fine. Getting on a high horse about how it’s better for the environment like it’s composting or whatever is what’s weird to me
this graph shows how many metric tons of CO2 you can avert by the various lifestyle choices
this chart came from The Founders Pledge Climate and Lifestyle report, which quantified "the scale of environmental impact of different lifestyle choices". regarding having kids, the report purports that "prior analyses have significantly overstated the impact of this choice". the above chart assumes no change in the output of CO2 per person over the course of their lives, which isn't realistic.
This suggests that decisions about whether to have a child are completely dominant from the point of view of the climate. However, the estimates above assume that the emissions of one's descendants will continue at a constant rate into the future, which is highly unrealistic given (1) emissions per head are trending downward in most advanced economies, and (2) many jurisdictions have legally binding climate targets and/or carbon pricing schemes that commit them to decarbonisation, in some or all sectors, in the next few decades.
this is the next chart in the report, which does take into account future changes in currently implemented government policy:
i still think we will see significant negative impacts from climate change, but we are trending in the right direction.
regardless of people's feelings on climate, the trend is for richer and more educated countries to have less kids. people start to choose to have fewer children and pour more resources into them. and a richer and more educated society offers more opportunity for women (in the US, for example, women are now the majority of college-educated labor), who in the past bore the brunt of child-rearing responsibilities. now women see a choice between a satisfying and successful career or having kids. individuals desires will be different, but this is a good thing.
however as the article notes, there may be ways to reverse this trend, notably and perhaps obviously making it cheaper and easier for people to have and raise children via supportive family government policies. we also need more men to step up and become the primary care-givers while woman go out and earn. this also sounds obvious and silly to say, but to do so requires a cultural shift amongst men, a redefining of the dated "breadwinner" definition of manhood which has been a part of our cultural identity since... well forever.
there is also a bit of a burden on women here when it comes to choosing mates. painting with an extremely broad brush, but traditionally women have sought out men who are educated earners as well, but in a world where women are killing it in the workforce, and most of the potential partner pool are less educated than them, they are going to have to get used to the idea of getting them a trophy husband.
Post by 3post1jack1 on Jan 23, 2023 13:04:51 GMT -5
responding to another point about not wanting to have kids in a world full of assholes, well let me tell you about the vast majority of human history where we were mostly dumb and cruel and treated most people like absolute trash. i firmly believe much of modern day doomerism is the result of social media amplifying the worst voices. could you imagine if we had twitter during the march on selma or the salem witch trials.
things today are way better than they ever have been in terms of people's intelligence and attitudes towards helping historically oppressed classes of people. there is more to be done, of course, but we are doing much better than at any other point in history.
responding to another point about not wanting to have kids in a world full of assholes, well let me tell you about the vast majority of human history where we were mostly dumb and cruel and treated most people like absolute trash. i firmly believe much of modern day doomerism is the result of social media amplifying the worst voices. could you imagine if we had twitter during the march on selma or the salem witch trials.
things today are way better than they ever have been in terms of people's intelligence and attitudes towards helping historically oppressed classes of people. there is more to be done, of course, but we are doing much better than at any other point in history.
I don't disagree with this but we also have nuclear bombs. We're capable of wiping ourselves out pretty quickly.
Last Edit: Jan 23, 2023 13:11:29 GMT -5 by Tony - Back to Top
responding to another point about not wanting to have kids in a world full of assholes, well let me tell you about the vast majority of human history where we were mostly dumb and cruel and treated most people like absolute trash. i firmly believe much of modern day doomerism is the result of social media amplifying the worst voices. could you imagine if we had twitter during the march on selma or the salem witch trials.
things today are way better than they ever have been in terms of people's intelligence and attitudes towards helping historically oppressed classes of people. there is more to be done, of course, but we are doing much better than at any other point in history.
I don't disagree with this but we also have nuclear bombs. We're capable of wiping ourselves out pretty quickly.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
I'm all about it, but zero chance this could be enforced in any way. The after 50 part is obviously easier to track, but the after 3 children part is not so easy...
Let's focus on more realistic first step efforts. For example, health insurance plans that cover viagra, but not birth control.
I'm all about it, but zero chance this could be enforced in any way. The after 50 part is obviously easier to track, but the after 3 children part is not so easy...
Let's focus on more realistic first step efforts. For example, health insurance plans that cover viagra, but not birth control.
100% not feasible at this point in time (maybe ever) but v interesting to consider hypothetically, is all
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Thoughts are that the government should remain outside of people's reproductive decisions. I don't mind the chaos of spitting that shit back in their faces.
Post by crazykittensmile on Jan 26, 2023 16:46:22 GMT -5
When it comes to life choices as big as having or not having kids, there's literally no "correct" choice. No matter what you choose, someone will think it's the worst thing ever. So you just have to do what's right for you, and let other people do what's right for them, and that's that.
The most important thing is that it should be just that, a choice.
When it comes to life choices as big as having or not having kids, there's literally no "correct" choice. No matter what you choose, someone will think it's the worst thing ever. So you just have to do what's right for you, and let other people do what's right for them, and that's that.
The most important thing is that it should be just that, a choice.
Yes, completely agree it needs to be a choice.
But I'd push back on the "no correct choice". I have a lot of child-free female friends who have gotten so much pushback on not being a mother, ESPECIALLY if they were partnered. I sometimes feel not as "legit" of a woman because I am not a mom at my age. There's a lot stacked against me getting to motherhood, and it feels like sometimes I'm socially punished for it. Not by my inner circle of friends, but by society at large and extended family.
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incinnati Ohio babeyyyy
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