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Post by famousblueraincoat on Apr 12, 2007 19:20:06 GMT -5
I rarely feel compelled to share personal things on this website, but this thread struck a nerve. I feel that I'm part of an ever-evolving spiritual scavenger hunt. I grew up Catholic, and have attended Catholic church most of my life. Recently, I've come to terms with the fact that while I may always be Catholic in ritual (to appease my family, my girlfriend, etc.), I am no longer Catholic in my beliefs.
Why? Because I reject identity as the basis for religion. I refuse to equate faith with knowledge of identity. I don't believe that someone transcends humanity and reaches the next level just because they chose the correct deity on Earth. Personally, I find that ridiculous. I see no reason to attach a name for the being that gives me life, joy, peace, hope, etc. I see no need for a story, or rituals, or anything else. Faith is internal. Identity is adversarial.
All that these stories, these identities have ever brought us are hatred and war. Any peace that we receive from religion, we receive from the internal knowledge that a God exists and from the joy of being part of a loving family or community. Identity narrows the community. God's name is irrelevant to his purpose, to his message.
If we took all of the ritual and all of the identity and all of the judgmentalism out of all the world's most prominent religions, what would be left with? It wouldn't be about who is right and who is wrong any more. It would be about the way we treat one another. We would return to focusing on the things that matter: generosity of spirit and living every day of our lives to the fullest. Strangely enough, we'd be left with one very simple rule which seemingly contradicts all of the judgmentalism, hatred, fear, guilt, etc. that organized religion has put on our backs:
Do unto others as you wish that they would do unto you.
Anyway, that's just my rant, because I like this thread, and because, hey, my God, Captain No Name, he digs love, compassion, and happiness.
Post by stuckinutero on Apr 12, 2007 22:59:21 GMT -5
lauraroo said:
[glow=red,2,300]If you believe in the possibility of other gods, then youre not a christian.[/glow]
How about one god with different paths?
I don't know. Im not a pastor, or part of the church. I'm just speaking "the word of god"..... told by man...... written by some other dude....... interpreted by the church..... written by another guy..... interpreted by some other guy.
I'm not saying you can't be religious. I'm just saying that particular view would classify you as something else. Like the religion I was brought up around. The Lutheran religion. If I said now that I believe in god, but don't believe you have to go to church. I couldn't classify myself as a Catholic, because Catholics believe that. I would be a Lutheran.
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
Post by wilburbellson on Apr 30, 2007 20:07:31 GMT -5
attornaroo said:
I rarely feel compelled to share personal things on this website, but this thread struck a nerve. I feel that I'm part of an ever-evolving spiritual scavenger hunt. I grew up Catholic, and have attended Catholic church most of my life. Recently, I've come to terms with the fact that while I may always be Catholic in ritual (to appease my family, my girlfriend, etc.), I am no longer Catholic in my beliefs.
Why? Because I reject identity as the basis for religion. I refuse to equate faith with knowledge of identity. I don't believe that someone transcends humanity and reaches the next level just because they chose the correct deity on Earth. Personally, I find that ridiculous. I see no reason to attach a name for the being that gives me life, joy, peace, hope, etc. I see no need for a story, or rituals, or anything else. Faith is internal. Identity is adversarial.
All that these stories, these identities have ever brought us are hatred and war. Any peace that we receive from religion, we receive from the internal knowledge that a God exists and from the joy of being part of a loving family or community. Identity narrows the community. God's name is irrelevant to his purpose, to his message.
If we took all of the ritual and all of the identity and all of the judgmentalism out of all the world's most prominent religions, what would be left with? It wouldn't be about who is right and who is wrong any more. It would be about the way we treat one another. We would return to focusing on the things that matter: generosity of spirit and living every day of our lives to the fullest. Strangely enough, we'd be left with one very simple rule which seemingly contradicts all of the judgmentalism, hatred, fear, guilt, etc. that organized religion has put on our backs:
Do unto others as you wish that they would do unto you.
Anyway, that's just my rant, because I like this thread, and because, hey, my God, Captain No Name, he digs love, compassion, and happiness.
Wow. You sound just like me, especially the first and last parts. I grew up Catholic, but as I got/get older, I realized that I just can't agree with many Catholic beliefs. Karma to you...
I believe in love. I believe that if you are a good, nice person that people will be good and nice to you. Be nice to each other, be nice to animals, and be nice to the earth, and all of that will come back to you.
I've said this before, on other threads, but if everyone at Bonnaroo is half as nice as the people on the boards, then I expect four days filled with nothing but positivity.
[glow=red,2,300]If you believe in the possibility of other gods, then youre not a christian.[/glow]
How about one god with different paths?
I don't know. Im not a pastor, or part of the church. I'm just speaking "the word of god"..... told by man...... written by some other dude....... interpreted by the church..... written by another guy..... interpreted by some other guy.
I'm not saying you can't be religious. I'm just saying that particular view would classify you as something else. Like the religion I was brought up around. The Lutheran religion. If I said now that I believe in god, but don't believe you have to go to church. I couldn't classify myself as a Catholic, because Catholics believe that. I would be a Lutheran.
I am a Lutheran, born and raised and raising my children in the same way - my father is Catholic - I went to Catholic School - I have been to revivals with friends, Baptist churches, Methodist, Episcapalian - been there, done that - at the moment I am disillusioned with my own church - not my religion but my church and it's leadership.
That said - I don't believe that is a "need" to appear in a church every single week, starched and pressed in order to recieve forgivness, neither do I believe that I have to be in a church of organized religion in order to have FAITH that there is a God. I firmly believe that God is responsible for all that we do and all that is done - therefore - my belief is that God will and does forgive anyone for anything they do - he gave his only son for the forgivness of man - therefore - we are automatically forgiven - all we have to do is ask for the forgiveness
i'll think about this thread when my ass is sitting in the desert in the fall
Which desert? I searched the desert for 2 years. I found lots of war but no love ( Yes, I also found a donkey). Maybe I could make some love here for you. That is, as long as they don't stick me back in the f#$king desert.
[glow=red,2,300]If you believe in the possibility of other gods, then youre not a christian.[/glow]
Who are we to define other people's beliefs for them? I call myself a Buddhist, but I'm sure others might say I'm not due to some aspect of my practice (or lack of it). We should be able to define our own beliefs and allow others to do the same.
I felt that Sunni1031 was trying to promote an open view and recognizing that others may have different views, it's a real shame if we can't accept his/her views in return.
Post by oleander124 on May 1, 2007 16:17:57 GMT -5
attornaroo said:
I rarely feel compelled to share personal things on this website, but this thread struck a nerve. I feel that I'm part of an ever-evolving spiritual scavenger hunt. I grew up Catholic, and have attended Catholic church most of my life. Recently, I've come to terms with the fact that while I may always be Catholic in ritual (to appease my family, my girlfriend, etc.), I am no longer Catholic in my beliefs.
Why? Because I reject identity as the basis for religion. I refuse to equate faith with knowledge of identity. I don't believe that someone transcends humanity and reaches the next level just because they chose the correct deity on Earth. Personally, I find that ridiculous. I see no reason to attach a name for the being that gives me life, joy, peace, hope, etc. I see no need for a story, or rituals, or anything else. Faith is internal. Identity is adversarial.
All that these stories, these identities have ever brought us are hatred and war. Any peace that we receive from religion, we receive from the internal knowledge that a God exists and from the joy of being part of a loving family or community. Identity narrows the community. God's name is irrelevant to his purpose, to his message.
If we took all of the ritual and all of the identity and all of the judgmentalism out of all the world's most prominent religions, what would be left with? It wouldn't be about who is right and who is wrong any more. It would be about the way we treat one another. We would return to focusing on the things that matter: generosity of spirit and living every day of our lives to the fullest. Strangely enough, we'd be left with one very simple rule which seemingly contradicts all of the judgmentalism, hatred, fear, guilt, etc. that organized religion has put on our backs:
Do unto others as you wish that they would do unto you.
Anyway, that's just my rant, because I like this thread, and because, hey, my God, Captain No Name, he digs love, compassion, and happiness.
Man, that is just beautiful.
I grew up Moravian (no, not Mormon..everyone thinks that). I went to church EVERY Sunday, went to youth activities Sunday nights. When I moved away to go to college, I realized I didn't identify with the religion/church I had known up to that point. I am agnostic/pagan-ish...I don't really know what I am. I do know that I believe in some sort of higher power, whether it's mother nature or some sort of "god". I've seen too much not to believe.
Again, that was beautiful writing, attornaroo! karma!
Moravians support collegial experiences with children of God in other Christian churches, and carefully avoid all disputes, respecting opinions and ceremonies peculiar to one or another Church. We recognize that through the grace of Christ different denominations have received many gifts and that the Church of Christ may be enriched by these many and varied contributions. It is our desire that we may learn from one another and rejoice together in the riches of the love of Christ and the manifold wisdom of God. We welcome every step that brings us nearer the goal of unity in Him. In this fellowship we cooperate with other churches in the support of public charities or Christian enterprises, which have a just claim upon us as followers of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I had never heard of Moravian (which is interesting since I work for Chaplain Servic in the VA) so I went and looksed and found the above information at www.moravian.org
Seems like a good way to look at things - very accepting
Post by oleander124 on May 1, 2007 16:30:55 GMT -5
bos1969 said:
I had never heard of Moravian (which is interesting since I work for Chaplain Servic in the VA) so I went and looksed and found the above information at www.moravian.org
Seems like a good way to look at things - very accepting
You'd think so by reading that, wouldn't you? I would say it's no different than any other christian church I've been to. My church had your usual hypocrites and people just showing up for appearances. But, there were your true, honest people that were part of the congregation. I believe the religion as a whole should be like the quote you posted above, but over the years it faded away and became like everything else. However, I did like the Lovefeasts that consisted of singing and partaking in bread and coffee. There were also candlelight services at Christmas.
Have you ever heard of Old Salem in Winston-Salem, NC? That is an old Moravian settlement.
