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I'm watching a video, on the internet. So far I have seen guns and murder bleeped. and dirt I think too, but I was pissed already.
please tell me what this is sheltering me from?
where is the defining line? I understand censoring derogatory terms, but lately I'm noticing the wierdest edits.
I was really pissed when Weezer's "We're all on drugs" turned in to "We're all in love". Although the video still lipsynced the right words. I'm tired of censorship, and I'm tired of the FCC. I didn't vote for em, it is doing what it was never meant to do.
I'm all for music and films to be uncensored. Censorship cripples the growth of culture in our country.
We treat mishaps like sinking ships and I know that I don't want to be out to drift Well I can see it in your eyes like I taste your lips and They both tell me that we're better than this
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 5, 2007 15:10:09 GMT -5
I agree censorship has greatly restricted the music and film industry. Often the artist uses foul words to help prove a point, such as in John Lennon's "Working Class Hero."
I never really got the point of "swear words" anyways? Who was the person that picked words out of the dictionary and said "these here are bad to say!"
Post by oleander124 on Jul 5, 2007 15:12:14 GMT -5
strumntheguitar said:
I never really got the point of "swear words" anyways? Who was the person that picked words out of the dictionary and said "these here are bad to say!"
I cuss a lot ...and this is my argument as to why I think it's ok to use profanity.
I wrote a paper for my college English class, in which I ripped censorship, basically concluding that censorship is a detriment to society that takes away the essential freedoms of human thought and speech.
As Tom Morello says, the only bad F-word is the FCC.
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Jul 5, 2007 16:18:13 GMT -5
I am convinced that FCC "regulation" that prohibits not just words, but ideas from beeing expressed over the airwaves are designed to protect parents from having to talk about any uncomfortable subject with their kids. I work for a major metropolitan newspaper, and I don't know how many times I've seen letters or calls to us from parents and grandparents, angry because they were forced into an "uncomfortable" conversation with their child beacuse of something the kid saw in the paper. These letters always include the statement "What am I supposed to say to my kid when they ask me....." Maybe they should have thought of that before having kids.
Parents, don't keep your kids stupid by hiding reality from them. The sooner they learn to deal with the world as it is, the sooner they can go about affecting positive change.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 5, 2007 16:34:37 GMT -5
Here's a story of my childhood:
When I was a little tot I was watching the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie (can't remember which one, exactly) and at one point I think it was Michaelangelo (my favorite one) said damn and later that day I asked my mom what damn meant and she scolded me for saying the word, and then took the movie away from me until I was "more mature."
I never was told what damn meant, and when asked why I couldn't watch the movie anymore all my mom would say is "it obviously has had a bad influence on you and you don't need that at such a young age."
Now, I'm 20. Not old or fully matured by any means, but if my mom were to ever hear me say damn or sh!t (the most innocent of my rather extensive vocabulary) she would still go apeshit on me for whatever reason.
...this is only part of the reason that I don't get along with my parents.
We treat mishaps like sinking ships and I know that I don't want to be out to drift Well I can see it in your eyes like I taste your lips and They both tell me that we're better than this
Walmart is also partly responsible for the prevailing censorship also. In the 1990's they started requiring the CD's and movies they sell meet "decency standards" (mainly in response to right wingers)and since they are the country's largets seller of CD's and DVD's, companies began making censored versions for Walmart. Once these versions were widely available, everyone started using them to be on the safe side. The Justin/Jackson thing just solidified it.
I remember buying a Public Enemy CD at Walmart, only to get home and find most of it "bleeped" out. Also I think I got a highly censored version of the DVD "Dogma" from Walmart. The worst part is that there is no indication on the packaging that these items have been censored.
Walmart is also partly responsible for the prevailing censorship also. In the 1990's they started requiring the CD's and movies they sell meet "decency standards" (mainly in response to right wingers)and since they are the country's largets seller of CD's and DVD's, companies began making censored versions for Walmart. Once these versions were widely available, everyone started using them to be on the safe side. The Justin/Jackson thing just solidified it.
I remember buying a Public Enemy CD at Walmart, only to get home and find most of it "bleeped" out. Also I think I got a highly censored version of the DVD "Dogma" from Walmart. The worst part is that there is no indication on the packaging that these items have been censored.
same thing happened to me - bought a CD (before I knew they were censoring stuff) got home and it was all bleeped out - I'll never buy another cd or DVD from Wal-mart again
Wal Mart flexes its muscle in more pitiful ways than that as well. The same pressures they put on artists, they put on workers, families, the environment, etc. Unscrupulous to the social well being of mankind. All in the name of the lowest price. With no deference to the true COST. ----Censorship, low wages, crappy if any benefits, environmental degradation, child labor, union-busting, ETC.
And if we can't keep ourselves outa there, it's our fault for supporting such BS for the sake of our own greed.
It's high time people start realizing that what we have got is not nearly as important as who we supported to get it. And if we cannot keep ourselves from such "deep discounts", then we bear the weight of what we create. If you can't afford it without child labor, maybe you can't afford it, eh ?
That's the power of the dollar.
Karma, Indigo, for providing the opportunity for my rant !
Last Edit: Jul 6, 2007 8:47:46 GMT -5 by snoochio - Back to Top
Post by blazinhazen on Jul 6, 2007 13:09:10 GMT -5
^^^agreed! i saw a documentary on the evils of wal-mart and have never shopped there since. low-wage labor with the government providing "benefits" (i.e. food stamps, housing assistance, medicaid, etc.), destroying local business, anti-union, female dis-empowerment...i don't support them or their low a$$ prices.
^^^Oh - don't get me started on all that - my bottom line is - you want to be in America - want to be a citizen - want to make American dollars - learn to speak fucking English!
I ride the bus every day... and maybe 10% of the conversations are in English. We have free spanish-only newspapers at all the bus stops, no english ones.. One of my radio stations got changed to spanish-only.. I have to press 1 for English(and 2 for English when calling certain places) when making certain phone calls...
I'm one of the most tolerant people you will meet... but this is starting to piss me the f off. Sorry, but you'll never learn English by reading Spanish newspapers, speaking spanish in checkout lines, listening to Spanish on the radio, watching spanish tv, speaking spanish on the bus....
i respectfully am on the other side of that coin. i think it's alot easier for an American to learn Spanish than an immigrant to make it in this country these days. Not that anyone in this country should HAVE to learn anything . Or that our gov't should fund the duplicity. I just find it funny that people have this as a pet peeve.
Almost like having a problem with the homeless being dirty !
I'm sure I'm not in the majority on this one. It's just hard for me to assert what a great country this is and then dump on those who come here to make it better for themselves.
Also ironic that if you travel the world, most Americans expect to be spoken English to. And more ironic, if you try to speak in the native tongue to natives, they often are perturbed that you "think they are so simple" that they have not learned English.
I don't buy the slippery slope argument that,"Next the national anthem will have to be sung in Spanish". And a little help with assimilation(like exit signs in both languages, or subway directions, etc) is something I would like as a stranger in a strange land.
but I see Wooz's point - why should "I" in an English speaking country be the one that had to press one for English - why can't Spanish speaking people be told to press one if they want to hear it in Spanish - why is virtually EVERYTHING in my grocery store printed in English and in Spanish - I am sorry but when my ancestors cam here from Germany and Russia - they were expected and were proud to learn English - why is it so different now?
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 6, 2007 13:53:56 GMT -5
snoochio said:
i respectfully am on the other side of that coin. i think it's alot easier for an American to learn Spanish than an immigrant to make it in this country these days. Not that anyone in this country should HAVE to learn anything . Or that our gov't should fund the duplicity. I just find it funny that people have this as a pet peeve.
Almost like having a problem with the homeless being dirty !
I'm sure I'm not in the majority on this one. It's just hard for me to assert what a great country this is and then dump on those who come here to make it better for themselves.
Also ironic that if you travel the world, most Americans expect to be spoken English to. And more ironic, if you try to speak in the native tongue to natives, they often are perturbed that you "think they are so simple" that they have not learned English.
I don't buy the slippery slope argument that,"Next the national anthem will have to be sung in Spanish". And a little help with assimilation(like exit signs in both languages, or subway directions, etc) is something I would like as a stranger in a strange land.
Like you said, I traveled Europe last summer, and each different country I went to (Spain, France, Italy) I tried my darndest to learn the basics of their language so I could order food, ask directions, and stuff like that.
In return, I got rude and idiotic looks because I wasn't fluent and obviously foreign (or just American)
If a Hispanic person came up to me and mumbled something in broken English, I'd be much happier to help than if they walked up to me and asked me in fluent Spanish with just using hand gestures.
Bottom line of my argument: I make the effort when in foreign countries visiting, if they're gonna live here they damn well should too.
Our national anthem HAS been sung in Spanish(even at major events), and subway directions etc are now in Spanish in many major cities. On another note, I speak a bit of Spanish.. I don't expect to be spoken to in English in a foreign land(though I agree that many do).
I also agree with a law a few folks in a few places have laid down: If you want to fly the flag of another country outside your home.. fine. But you must fly the US flag higher.
I just believe that more of an effort should be made to teach English vs. produce more things in Spanish.
Edit: I completely agree with this: >>If a Hispanic person came up to me and mumbled something in broken English, I'd be much happier to help than if they walked up to me and asked me in fluent Spanish with just using hand gestures.
Last Edit: Jul 6, 2007 13:58:46 GMT -5 by wooz - Back to Top
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Jul 6, 2007 13:57:13 GMT -5
I'm gonna have to play the devil's advocate on this one. Maybe its because I live w/in 100 Miles of the border and Spanish has been here a long time (longer than English, since we are on Gadsen purchase land), but I dont see Spanish as that much of a threat. The whole language thing wouldn't even be an issue if we required 2nd language training in our public schools from day one like every other industralized country in the world.
That said, I agree that America's lack of an "official" language gives immigrants the wrong impression. I do think they should make an effort to learn English (esp. since thats the language all the street signs are in), and making English the official language would strengthen that stance. But at the same time we are looking down the maw of a global economy, a global marketplace and global communities, and we STILL expect everybody to speak English. It will take some give and take from both sides of the argument.
I guess you could say I'm in favor of everybody making an effort to communicate more effectivly.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
Post by spookymonster on Jul 6, 2007 14:00:06 GMT -5
My father's parents were hispanic immigrants (he from Spain, she from Puerto Rico). They met and raised a family in NYC. My father and his siblings spoke only English in the home. My grandfather forbid them from speaking Spanish for 2 reasons; for one, he was a bit of a snob and hated hearing it spoken with anything but a 'pure' Castilian accent , but mostly because he feared his children would never be more than second-class citizens if they couldn't integrate. Language was a big barrier to acceptance in those days, but then again, so was having a 'permanent tan'. Some things he could help his children overcome, some he couldn't.
Unfortunately, I think the hard won successes of the early civil rights movement had unexpected side-effects on later generations. In particular, the strange believe that isolationism need not only be tolerated, but encouraged; that diversity is best served by, of all things, segregation.
Community, IMHO, is a voluntary thing: if you don't want to be part of it, don't complain when you're left outside of it.
completely agree on requiring a second language in school.. I love learning other languages. It appears though as if many of our immigrants don't care about learning English and insist on using their home tongue... and that irks me. It also irks me that people will fly the flag of another country yet expect rights and priveleges(and even money!) here.
Bottom line of my argument: I make the effort when in foreign countries visiting, if they're gonna live here they damn well should too.
You were visiting-a luxury compared to what some of these human beings suffer just to survive and send $ home to their families who live in absolute squalor.
It's the imperial attitude of Americans that gets us the treatment we get outside of our own backyard. Like the kind of attitude it takes to take a crap on the hopes of those trying to better themselves. Big corporations run busses from border towns to slaughterhouses for jobs americans won't do. They don't offer classes in English.
In the days of Spooky's Grandparents, amnesty was part of the package with a few criteria right off the boat. Big business isn't interested in offering citizenship to workers who cost 50 bucks a day and are tax and benefit free.
And the government has succeeded in turning it's poorest citizens, it's working class, against the one class of people who have got it worse-it's illegals. Funny that it's the gubment folk who hire the nannies, and administrate the slaughterhouses and factory farms who benefit from the hate that separates us.
I say we turn our angst against those keeping us down, not those picking our fruit, cutting our meat, and sending two thirds of the pittance they make home to their families.
Last Edit: Jul 6, 2007 14:47:34 GMT -5 by snoochio - Back to Top
I can't believe what I'm reading on this thread. Wow.
actually - I am impressed that we can have a civilized debate without it tunring into a name calling bit of nastiness.
We each have our own opinions. I really appreciate reading Snoochio's opinion - I am a fairly open minded person and if someone can show me that my thinking may not be the best way - I am open to changing my opinion.
That said - I am still tired of going into my grocery store and have everything in two languages - 2 years ago - it was not like that - I called my electric company last night and got the recording "for English - press one - then in Spanish it said for Spanish, please hold" huh? it should be the other way around
...and this is my argument as to why I think it's ok to use profanity. 
)
. Or that our gov't should fund the duplicity. I just find it funny that people have this as a pet peeve.
