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Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 30, 2007 11:37:32 GMT -5
So just recently a codefendant along with Michael Vick has agreed to a plea bargain with the US to plead guilty to the conspiracy and dogfighting charges as well as agreed to testify against Michael Vick. Good news for all the Vick-haters out there...
If you guys are tired of hearing about this, let me know and I won't mention it anymore... For me, Vick was a "hero" in my area because where he played college ball is the "local" team. Everybody admires him and sees him as a role model and I've just felt all along he was up to no good, so I enjoy hearing that he's finally about to get what he deserves.
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 30, 2007 11:49:19 GMT -5
oleander124 said:
Did he ever visit the house? Is this to be determined at the trial?
That's what he's under trial for. According to Vick, he bought the house and then gave it to his relatives to use as a kennel, and then he never visited the house again. Then, shortly after news of the raid on the house came to public Vick promptly sold the house and said he never visited that place and his relatives "took advantage of his generosity"
This is the main reason why I'm glad someone has agreed to plead guilty and testify against Vick. Rather than accepting his faults he immediatly blamed his own family and still tried to make him appear to be the "generous" one that was apparently too innocent to know what's going on in a multi million dollar home.
^^^^I saw a clip of him the other day saying - that none of this mattered because people would still love him. It was not done in a humble way - more in a gangsta thug wannabe way
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 30, 2007 11:52:47 GMT -5
Yeah, he's still under the impression that "I make millions of dollars and play football so everybody loves me"
apparently he didn't notice that all the streets outside the courthouse just for his arraignment were closed off because of the mob of people holding signs that bashed him, and then I think there were a total of 3 people there that supported him. He must've paid somebody to take his Stats courses in college...
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 30, 2007 11:54:14 GMT -5
oleander124 said:
Isn't it possible that he didn't know what was going on at all and really didn't know that it wasn't being used for a kennel?
Possible, yes... however not likely. He has (or had, rather) a dog breeding license and said he was aware of the dogs at the house but did not know there was any illegal dogfighting at the house. His whole story seems contradicting to me... but I'm incredibly biased when anything concerning Vick comes up
Isn't it possible that he didn't know what was going on at all and really didn't know that it wasn't being used for a kennel?
Possible, yes... however not likely. He has (or had, rather) a dog breeding license and said he was aware of the dogs at the house but did not know there was any illegal dogfighting at the house. His whole story seems contradicting to me... but I'm incredibly biased when anything concerning Vick comes up
not only that but you know Boz does Animal Control - that is his job - what he has done all his life practically - and I was a criminal defense paralegal - neither he nor I have evern seen anyone who was arrested for dog fighting that admitted he was doing it - they all deny it and say they had no idea it was ging on and no idea how their dogs got all scarred up - people who raise pit bulls now days only raise them for one thing - fighting - they are not a gentle dog - they are not bred to be gentle - they are a fighting dog and that is all that they are good for
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 30, 2007 12:24:31 GMT -5
bos1969 said:
not only that but you know Boz does Animal Control - that is his job - what he has done all his life practically - and I was a criminal defense paralegal - neither he nor I have evern seen anyone who was arrested for dog fighting that admitted he was doing it - they all deny it and say they had no idea it was ging on and no idea how their dogs got all scarred up - people who raise pit bulls now days only raise them for one thing - fighting - they are not a gentle dog - they are not bred to be gentle - they are a fighting dog and that is all that they are good for
*Sigh* and all I want is to see a cute little pitbull like on the Little Rascals... what was his name again? I always seem to forget.
To be fair, I know a few people that raise very good pitbulls. They are capable of being some of the cutest pups out there, however their reputation for being very strong and aggressive has grown lately and people seem to only breed them for violence or protection these days...
Post by artandmusic on Jul 30, 2007 12:38:05 GMT -5
bos1969 said:
strumntheguitar said:
Possible, yes... however not likely. He has (or had, rather) a dog breeding license and said he was aware of the dogs at the house but did not know there was any illegal dogfighting at the house. His whole story seems contradicting to me... but I'm incredibly biased when anything concerning Vick comes up
not only that but you know Boz does Animal Control - that is his job - what he has done all his life practically - and I was a criminal defense paralegal - neither he nor I have evern seen anyone who was arrested for dog fighting that admitted he was doing it - they all deny it and say they had no idea it was ging on and no idea how their dogs got all scarred up - people who raise pit bulls now days only raise them for one thing - fighting - they are not a gentle dog - they are not bred to be gentle - they are a fighting dog and that is all that they are good for
I cannot even believe what I am reading are you SERIOUS??? It turns my stomach to read such lies and prejudice. I mean to say all people who raise pitbulls do it to fight them is one ignorant and horrible thing. But then to continue with blaming an entire breed of dog for what a small amount of scumbag people do is just so incredibly wrong. But what really scares and bothers me is how it was all prefaceds by saying that Boz is an animal control officer. My god whats next a teacher confirming that one race isnt as smart? Sorry to go off but I really feel insulted as someone who has a [glow=red,2,300]Loving, Gentle, Pitbull[/glow] that sleeps next to them each night. I dont know how you were so scarred in life to be so hateful towards an animal but please understand that it is these very same inacurate, negative, stereotypes that are leading to Breed Specific anti pitbull legislatioon. And because of that people are having their gentle loving animals taken from them and murdered.
Most of the time when pitbulls are named as the dog that has attcked someone it is wrong. Most are mixed breed or even another breed. Please take the time to check this out:
Post by spookymonster on Jul 30, 2007 12:54:08 GMT -5
artandmusic said:
bos1969 said:
not only that but you know Boz does Animal Control - that is his job - what he has done all his life practically - and I was a criminal defense paralegal - neither he nor I have evern seen anyone who was arrested for dog fighting that admitted he was doing it - they all deny it and say they had no idea it was ging on and no idea how their dogs got all scarred up - people who raise pit bulls now days only raise them for one thing - fighting - they are not a gentle dog - they are not bred to be gentle - they are a fighting dog and that is all that they are good for
I cannot even believe what I am reading are you SERIOUS??? It turns my stomach to read such lies and prejudice. I mean to say all people who raise pitbulls do it to fight them is one ignorant and horrible thing. But then to continue with blaming an entire breed of dog for what a small amount of scumbag people do is just so incredibly wrong. But what really scares and bothers me is how it was all prefaceds by saying that Boz is an animal control officer. My god whats next a teacher confirming that one race isnt as smart? Sorry to go off but I really feel insulted as someone who has a [glow=red,2,300]Loving, Gentle, Pitbull[/glow] that sleeps next to them each night. I dont know how you were so scarred in life to be so hateful towards an animal but please understand that it is these very same inacurate, negative, stereotypes that are leading to Breed Specific anti pitbull legislatioon. And because of that people are having their gentle loving animals taken from them and murdered.
Most of the time when pitbulls are named as the dog that has attcked someone it is wrong. Most are mixed breed or even another breed. Please take the time to check this out:
What can you expect from an APBT? First and foremost, memorize the following: THE GOLDEN RULE OF PIT BULL OWNERSHIP- NEVER TRUST YOUR PIT BULL NOT TO FIGHT!!!!! This breed is descended from pit dogs one way or another, and, given the right circumstances, most Pit Bulls will fight and against any other breed, they will win (you really don't want to see that!).
The site also seems to agree with Meg - that a vicious pit bull is most likely the result of poor and/or cruel training.
Before you continue with your "pit bulls don't attack people" tirade, re-read Meg's note and ask yourself, "when did she say anything about dogs attacking people?"
not only that but you know Boz does Animal Control - that is his job - what he has done all his life practically - and I was a criminal defense paralegal - neither he nor I have evern seen anyone who was arrested for dog fighting that admitted he was doing it - they all deny it and say they had no idea it was ging on and no idea how their dogs got all scarred up - people who raise pit bulls now days only raise them for one thing - fighting - they are not a gentle dog - they are not bred to be gentle - they are a fighting dog and that is all that they are good for
I cannot even believe what I am reading are you SERIOUS??? It turns my stomach to read such lies and prejudice. I mean to say all people who raise pitbulls do it to fight them is one ignorant and horrible thing. But then to continue with blaming an entire breed of dog for what a small amount of scumbag people do is just so incredibly wrong. But what really scares and bothers me is how it was all prefaceds by saying that Boz is an animal control officer. My god whats next a teacher confirming that one race isnt as smart? Sorry to go off but I really feel insulted as someone who has a [glow=red,2,300]Loving, Gentle, Pitbull[/glow] that sleeps next to them each night. I dont know how you were so scarred in life to be so hateful towards an animal but please understand that it is these very same inacurate, negative, stereotypes that are leading to Breed Specific anti pitbull legislatioon. And because of that people are having their gentle loving animals taken from them and murdered.
Most of the time when pitbulls are named as the dog that has attcked someone it is wrong. Most are mixed breed or even another breed. Please take the time to check this out:
ya know - coming after me and attacking me for the knowledge that I have is really sad - as I said Boz has done this all his life - he does investigations of animal cruelty all the time. I have seen first hand the pictures of the dogs and of people that have been attacked by the dogs.
we also have friends that have as you call them "loving, gentle pitbulls" would I leave my children alone with them? - not for even an instant - unfortunately - the ppitbull line has been so interbred for specific characteristics - that no matter how docile and gentle a pitbull is - the animal is still very unpridictable. (like ALL animals - so don't thin k I am singleing pitbulls out when I says that ) I also know enough after having gone up against people that oppose breed specific legistlation t o just shut up and move on my way because no matter what I say or any facts that I would produce - you will have your opinion just as I have my opinon.
There was no need to make any assumptions or accuse me of being hateful
I dont know how you were so scarred in life to be so hateful towards an animal
Post by artandmusic on Jul 30, 2007 13:08:35 GMT -5
No she said that all pitbulls are vicious fighting dogs and thats all they are good for. And that the only people that have them do so to abuse and fight them.
My pitbull slleeps bewteen myself my bulldog and my husband. He turns 7 in a week and has been around many many dogs in those 7 years. In that time he has growled or snapped at another dog maybe 3-4 times and everytime provoked. Which is far far far far far less than many of my friends small dogs such ass Jack Russels, Beagles, Chiuauas, fluffy mixed breeds etc..
They rank the APB at 84.1% which is much better than many other dogs that are not even thought of as dangerous in the least way. I am by no means claiming that every single pit bull is perfectly gentle because I think that would be just as wrong as saying they are all no good. It is abundantly clear that the way any dog is raised is the most major factor in their behavior. Including pitbulls
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 30, 2007 13:11:58 GMT -5
I hate to add fuel to the fire, but when I was 12 years old I was taking my cute golden retriever puppy for a walk around the neighborhood and, according to the owner, a "precious, gentile and loving" pitbull decided to greet my dog by biting his neck after my dog tried to sniff his arse... cause that's what dogs do... Did I blame the dog? No. I blame the owner for not having the dog on a leash if it's in the yard and for being oblivious to the instinct within the dog to attack if it feels threatened, even if it's not actually under any immediate danger.
Didn't mean to have this end up being an "animal hater accusation" thread, so let's leave the hating to Vick if there's gonna be any hating at all.... otherwise I'll just have this thread locked up cause as Meg pointed out, nobody's gonna change anybody's opinion of anything.
Post by artandmusic on Jul 30, 2007 13:14:07 GMT -5
Sorry if you feel attacked but as I said I felt very insulted by you claiming that all people owingpitbulls are dogfighting scum. I also felt offended because my dogs are like my children.
Please show your facts I would love to see them.
While you are on the topic of pitbulls being so inbred to be fighters. Every dog is that way. We created dogs every single diferent type is on purpose, like corn.
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 30, 2007 13:16:37 GMT -5
artandmusic and any others,
please stop hijacking my thread. If you want to have an argument over who hates animals, please do so in pm. This thread has gone askew from the original point which is discussing the court case and personal opinions on Vick and others on trial. Not the dogs. Thanks.
Taylor faces a maximum of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, but likely will get less under federal sentencing guidelines. The guideline range will be determined by court officials, and U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson can depart from that range if he finds aggravating or mitigating circumstances.
so - how much of that fine and/or jail sentence he will get
Post by elusiveboz on Jul 30, 2007 13:22:30 GMT -5
ok as an animal control officer aka dog catcher i can assure all of you that if he is raising that may pitbulls he is involved in the dog fight game with or with out knowledge of the activities. as a breeder of these dogs he sold to people that fight and they would want to see how tough the dogs are. in order to do that they have what is called a match which involves 2 PUPPIES having to fight for a short peiod of time...the winner of the match fight gets sold and the other is either used as a bait dog to train other dogs to fight or is killed.vick is as guilty as the day is long. i say hang im drown him electrocute him in the same manner the dogs were treated and then send his ass to jail
This word also has a underground meaning once you break it down. Let’s take “Bonn” for example and it actually turns into the word “Bone”. We all know gays use this word to describe the action of when they are fecal fisting their Cuban cabana boy at their sex bath house parties. Now let’s look at Roo, “Roo” is short for “Kangaroo”.So put the full true message together and you get“Bone a Kangaroo
Post by elusiveboz on Jul 30, 2007 13:44:46 GMT -5
artandmusic said:
No she said that all pitbulls are vicious fighting dogs and thats all they are good for. And that the only people that have them do so to abuse and fight them.
My pitbull slleeps bewteen myself my bulldog and my husband. He turns 7 in a week and has been around many many dogs in those 7 years. In that time he has growled or snapped at another dog maybe 3-4 times and everytime provoked. Which is far far far far far less than many of my friends small dogs such ass Jack Russels, Beagles, Chiuauas, fluffy mixed breeds etc..
They rank the APB at 84.1% which is much better than many other dogs that are not even thought of as dangerous in the least way. I am by no means claiming that every single pit bull is perfectly gentle because I think that would be just as wrong as saying they are all no good. It is abundantly clear that the way any dog is raised is the most major factor in their behavior. Including pitbulls
as you stated not all bulldogs are bad dogs.a lot has to do with how they are raised and owners being responsable. a lot also depends on blood lines.as a lover aniamls and working with them on a dailly basis for twentyfive years i can say i kind of know what i'm talking about. if the pitbull comes from fighting blooblines then no you don't know what the dog will do. i also feel that if you have small children this is not the dog to have in your house. but to each his own. no hard feeling for disagrements,everyone is entitled to opions.and if you do have children in the house with these dogs i have one question for you...... what are you going to do when the dog attacks your child? my usual responce from people with pits when asked this is "i'm going to kill the dog" and i advised them that will happen after they bury their child and get out of prison....again no hard feeling towards anyone just my opion...
This word also has a underground meaning once you break it down. Let’s take “Bonn” for example and it actually turns into the word “Bone”. We all know gays use this word to describe the action of when they are fecal fisting their Cuban cabana boy at their sex bath house parties. Now let’s look at Roo, “Roo” is short for “Kangaroo”.So put the full true message together and you get“Bone a Kangaroo
strumntheguitar
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Sir Strum, Master of Rum
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 30, 2007 14:49:45 GMT -5
bos1969 said:
Taylor faces a maximum of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, but likely will get less under federal sentencing guidelines. The guideline range will be determined by court officials, and U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson can depart from that range if he finds aggravating or mitigating circumstances.
so - how much of that fine and/or jail sentence he will get
My guess, and I really don't know anything as far as legal matters go with this so it really is solely a guess - is that he may serve a year maximum in prison and a hefty fine as well as a rather strict probation. This, of course, will only be if he obliges and has an honest and helpful testimony against the others who pleaded not guilty.
Post by elusiveboz on Jul 30, 2007 14:53:41 GMT -5
as this is a federal charge on a new federal law the us government will use these guys as an example.max jail time and max fines are likely. but being federal they will be in a country club prison.
This word also has a underground meaning once you break it down. Let’s take “Bonn” for example and it actually turns into the word “Bone”. We all know gays use this word to describe the action of when they are fecal fisting their Cuban cabana boy at their sex bath house parties. Now let’s look at Roo, “Roo” is short for “Kangaroo”.So put the full true message together and you get“Bone a Kangaroo
^^^I have to disagree with you - talking about just Taylor only - who pled guilty today - I think he will get a slap on the wrist for th emost part - limited jail time, a fine and probation - in exhange for his testimony against Vick and the other one.
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 30, 2007 15:02:23 GMT -5
I agree with both of you, actually.
Michael Vick has never been the nicest guy in public. All his "charity" work has helped only his hometown. Granted, his hometown needs a lot of help as it's a very rough part of town, and he did donate a gracious amount of money to Virginia Tech after the shootings in April. However, he has appeared infront of judges more times than me and all my friends combined have... which is saying a lot . I think the judge is going to give Vick the max fine, if not damn near close to it. Taylor, however, for cooperating with the case and testifying against the others, will not get as severe of a punishment I don't think but still enough to let the message sink in.
To be fair, I know a few people that raise very good pitbulls. They are capable of being some of the cutest pups out there, however their reputation for being very strong and aggressive has grown lately and people seem to only breed them for violence or protection these days...
strumntheguitar said:
I hate to add fuel to the fire, but when I was 12 years old I was taking my cute golden retriever puppy for a walk around the neighborhood and, according to the owner, a "precious, gentile and loving" pitbull decided to greet my dog by biting his neck after my dog tried to sniff his arse... cause that's what dogs do... Did I blame the dog? No. I blame the owner for not having the dog on a leash if it's in the yard and for being oblivious to the instinct within the dog to attack if it feels threatened, even if it's not actually under any immediate danger.
quote]
strumntheguitar said:
artandmusic and any others,
please stop hijacking my thread. If you want to have an argument over who hates animals, please do so in pm. This thread has gone askew from the original point which is discussing the court case and personal opinions on Vick and others on trial. Not the dogs. Thanks.
Seems to be a bit partisan to call someone out by name when you DID add fuel to the fire .
I wouldn't have continued this, but did not have the option of PM ing art and music with my support.
I think she was just questioning Meg's assertion:
bos1969 said:
they are not a gentle dog - they are not bred to be gentle - they are a fighting dog and that is all that they are good for
Like Becca and Strum, I have also had the pleasure of knowing many kind pitbulls.
And I feel for art and music, who knows the love of one personally, yet has to deal with such generalizations.
Boz took time to explain the difference of the bloodlines.
I don't think anyone wins when a thread gets locked. Nor should it be a threat by someone who HAS added "fuel to the fire".
