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Were DaVinci sketches art? What about the doodles of Picasso? What about MY doodles? What about children's art? Is it about quality? or motivation?
I think I'm more inclined to think of those doodles as art than a very intricate painting that was commissioned with detailed specifications. I used to take art classes, but in recent years, I don't do much because . . . well, I don't know why, really. Anyway, I have a couple of things that I have done (one is a painting, the other is a drawing) that we have up in the apartment. I think of them as art because they were personal, and I did them. (I don't think of them as good art, and I doubt that anyone else would want to display them in her house, but that is beside the point!)
My mom makes glass beads. Are those art? I haven't been able to decide. I think this probably falls under the art versus craft question. She has a few patterns that she makes variations of. Sometimes she uses them to make jewelry; sometimes she sells them individually and the people who buy them make the jewelry. I don't necessarily think of them as art, but I think she does.
Does it matter whether the person making it thinks of it as art?
Does it matter whether the person making it thinks of it as art?
I think it matters more what the viewer thinks.
IMO, the artists involvment is pretty much over once the piece is completed. I've got a bunch of things laying around the house that I've done but I rarely even think about them. It's all about what's next
I think your mom's beads are art. They are hers, she made them, there's no one else who would make them the same way. She may start with a pattern that someone else created but the second she deviates from that, it's her own.
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Oct 26, 2007 14:26:24 GMT -5
I think art has more to do with the intentions of the artist than the believes of the viewer (or listener). If your mom feels she is being creative and expressing herself by making glass beads, they're art. If she thinks its just a fun craft, it's not. The value of the art or the talent of the artist can be debated, but if someone puts a frame around it and calls it art, it's art whether you like it or not. examples:
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
alyroo
Bonnafunky Dirtyroo Princess of Blinkytown and moonpie expert
So, they are different, but could still refer to the same piece of work? Like cross-stitching is generally a craft, but if you design the piece yourself, it becomes art. But the act of doing it is still your craft.
Looking at my mom's website, she refers to it as a craft. (She is also a member of a craft guild, now that I think about it.) But I don't suppose that means that it is not art. And, I think that although she generally does variations of similar patterns, the patterns were still her own to start with.
I guess my outlook is that art is intended to convey some feeling/emotion/idea. I look at craft more as a project, something you make that doesn't necessarily have any particular meaning. But, how do you know if something is intended to have meaning? Everything communicates something, so I'm not sure where I would draw that line.
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Oct 26, 2007 14:41:32 GMT -5
alyroo said:
^I love DuChamp.
perfect example Stallion.
Have you ever heard any of his music? theres not a lot of it (the CD I have is called the complete works and only has 4 compositions). They sound exactly like you'd think they would, and some of it (esp. musical schulpture) is quite beautiful.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Oct 26, 2007 14:43:21 GMT -5
hilari said:
I look at craft more as a project, something you make that doesn't necessarily have any particular meaning. But, how do you know if something is intended to have meaning?
The only way you know is what the artist tells you, which is exactly the point I'm trying to make. The art-not art distinction is not made by the viewer, but by the creator.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
I think art has more to do with the intentions of the artist than the believes of the viewer (or listener). If your mom feels she is being creative and expressing herself by making glass beads, they're art. If she thinks its just a fun craft, it's not. The value of the art or the talent of the artist can be debated, but if someone puts a frame around it and calls it art, it's art whether you like it or not.
I agree. I think that what you said about whether the person is being creative and expressing herself or just thinks something is fun is where the distinction lies.
If a have something that I made, but I don't think it is art, and someone comes along and puts a frame around it and calls it art, does that mean I created to art, or the person who called it that did?
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Oct 26, 2007 14:50:41 GMT -5
hilari said:
If a have something that I made, but I don't think it is art, and someone comes along and puts a frame around it and calls it art, does that mean I created to art, or the person who called it that did?
Good question. There is a whole field of art called "found art" that encompases this idea. The Spam can clock I posted was one example of this kind of art. But whose art is it? is Hormel an artist for designing the can, or is the person who found it and slapped a clock on it the artist? I'd have to lean toward the latter, which would make the other person in your example the "artist." Let this be a lesson to all of us not to sell ourselves short! We can all be artists.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
alyroo
Bonnafunky Dirtyroo Princess of Blinkytown and moonpie expert
in my sig is a piece I did. Totally original... art. I have another piece I did of an angel. It was a cross-stitch pattern, I took off the wings, changed her hair, altered colors etc., made it my own... art.
Then there's my sampler...
I did it with no other motivation than to master stitches. Did it become art when I started making composition and color choices? Or was it art to begin with because it was my own from the start?
and the guy who designed that Spam can is definately an artist, a graphic artist. Working within perameters Duchamp's medium in that piece was spam can and clockworks...
You mentioned the difference between art and craft earlier. . .do you think there is a difference, or is it the same thing?
I think it is in the eyes of the creator or the eyes of the beholder - it can be either or both.
I think your mom creating glass beads would be art to me - because I know the process that is involved and the fact that it requires a creative mindset to create unique beads.
On the other hand - I make beaded jewelry using beads that are made by others - I consider what I do to be a craft - because I am using another artform to "craft" something,
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Oct 26, 2007 15:34:24 GMT -5
sparklybecca said:
oy. i had this discussion all through-out art school...
We had a similar discussion in a music class I took in college. the question asked was "What defines authentic music," with "authentic" being a term interchangable with art in this case. No consensus could be reached, since no one could accuratly define what "authentic music" was. We all had our different tastes and dislikes, but saying "I don't like it so it's not authentic" is pretty narrow-minded and ignorant. I posited that any music was art so long as it's sole purpose was not to sell something or make money (i.e. commercial jingles), but even I couldn't make myself believe that after more argument on the subject.
But I keep coming back to art being defined by the artist because they're the only authority on their own work's intentions. If we can agree art is something that evokes a response based on the preconceptions brought to it by the viewer, and "that's not art" is a response based on preconceptions evoked by the work, than logic dictates it must be art, no matter what it looks or sounds like. But if the creator agrees that it's not art, than it isn't.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
alyroo
Bonnafunky Dirtyroo Princess of Blinkytown and moonpie expert
Post by strumntheguitar on Oct 26, 2007 15:45:54 GMT -5
I would say that the creativity behind it is what makes it art. Even when following instructions on a store-bought kit to make beads I'd say it's art. Maybe not your art, it's whoever created the kit's art. It would be your craft.
Then again, I tend to view and label a lot of things as art, just because i greatly appreciate people using their creativity and imagination in any way possible
[quote author=alyroo board=offtopic thread=1193425907 post=1193431340 As in Meg's case. She didn't define it as art but I do. Who's right? Sometimes the viewer is ignorant, sometimes it's the artist [/quote]
Post by augustwest on Oct 26, 2007 16:20:11 GMT -5
The problem is in the questioning, it is not even really a question if the inquirer already knows there is no definite answer, ergo there is no answer.
