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just one little thing. if an aitheist dies and is wrong, they loose everything it's a really bad bet IMO.
If a christian is right, they hit the everlasting jack pot.
of course, for one to find God, they would have to go on a spiritual journey to find him, something of which, most atheists have never done in their life time, so they can never know until then.
There are so many things I could say to you, so many things I could point out, so many contradictions, but I'm not going to do that.. I'll tell YOU, that YOU need to go back on that "journey" and maybe pick up some f*cking logic along the way.. YOU ARE SO BLIND IT MAKES ME SICK.. And yes, you pissed me off coming into this thread meant to really be a joke and pushing that fairy tale bullsh*t on everyone when we're all pretty intelligent, open-minded people who can THINK, DO, and get this, even REASON without having to be guided by some super-Hitler.. But thanks for the "insight" Weatherbill.. I decided to find Christ (and accept him) just in case, you know, maybe I'm wrong.. What would it hurt, ya know?
just one little thing. if an aitheist dies and is wrong, they loose everything it's a really bad bet IMO.
If a christian is right, they hit the everlasting jack pot.
of course, for one to find God, they would have to go on a spiritual journey to find him, something of which, most atheists have never done in their life time, so they can never know until then.
There are so many things I could say to you, so many things I could point out, so many contradictions, but I'm not going to do that.. I'll tell YOU, that YOU need to go back on that "journey" and maybe pick up some f*cking logic along the way.. YOU ARE SO BLIND IT MAKES ME SICK.. And yes, you pissed me off coming into this thread meant to really be a joke and pushing that fairy tale bullsh*t on everyone when we're all pretty intelligent, open-minded people who can THINK, DO, and get this, even REASON without having to be guided by some super-Hitler.. But thanks for the "insight" Weatherbill.. I decided to find Christ (and accept him) just in case, you know, maybe I'm wrong.. What would it hurt, ya know?
I have this telephone pole you could argue with. It would probably be more receptive.
Atheism is only a religion if you go to meetings about it.
Atheism isn't a point of view or even a philosophy, but a shorter way of saying prove to me/present evidence that He (whoever you chose this to be) existed and that is the way. At least thats what I believe and I would consider myself atheist or at least agnostic
Is athiesm a religion? No, but I think secular humanism is....they have meetings
An athiest meeting would actually be kind of cool - just to meet likeminded people. I dont think we would have an hour long service and homily about no gods...
it would probably be like what i imagine an aa meeting is...
just one little thing. if an aitheist dies and is wrong, they loose everything it's a really bad bet IMO.
If a christian is right, they hit the everlasting jack pot.
of course, for one to find God, they would have to go on a spiritual journey to find him, something of which, most atheists have never done in their life time, so they can never know until then.
[/quote]
Pascal's Wager... I've never found that method convincing. It's the gambler's way of finding a religion, and I'm no gambler. One major flaw in Pascal's Wager is the number of religions there are, so for example if it is 50% 50% with thiesm and Athiesm (Antagonists siding on the Athiesm side), than it seems to be even. But taking into account that if you choose the "wrong" religion, and nearly every religion says worship of a false god is a sin, than... you have yourself a problem with the numbers.
I could go on and on about the flaws in Pascal, but really, that's another discussion for another board.
This is Bonnaroo, we're all family here. Help your brother out, regardless of what he or she believes in, we're all on this peice of earth together, let's make the best of it.
Post by weatherbill on Jun 4, 2007 21:53:37 GMT -5
mangopositive said:
By the way weatherbill... are you coming to the 'roo, or are you just fishin' for souls? If you are actually going to be there, we should totally get a beer together.
Sure! I'll be at the Roo and we'll have a few beers together.
someone did mention "hell" I don't beleive in a place called "hell". I do beleive in the grave and the 2nd deasth, but not a place of eternal suffering....that's crazy! And I know alotta christian beleive that, but they are stuck in 1800's reformation theology......that's prbably why alotta folks are atheists and really, I don't blame you at all......hell, if I beleived there was an eternal torment hell, I don't think I could sleep at ngiht....LOL....... Sorry you beleived what the church told you and not what the scriptures actually teach........
BTW, seems alotta hostility on this thread, almost to the point of some people's anger getting out of hand with their comments....
Last Edit: Jun 4, 2007 22:00:57 GMT -5 by weatherbill - Back to Top
i should read the bible again - it's been years. Actually, I would like to read all of the texts of the major religions.
its fascinating to me - like that movie jesus camp - how otherwise normal people have these completely irrational views on religion. i just don't get it or even understand (aside from a desire to not die when you die) what causes people to believe.
^^I do think when Im done with the book I am currently reading I am going to start reading the texts of all major religions. I will have to check out that movie though
^^I do think when Im done with the book I am currently reading I am going to start reading the texts of all major religions. I will have to check out that movie though
Definately check out "Jesus Camp".. Very unbiased (to me anyway).. I think they did a great job of leaving it up to the viewer on how to interpret the film.. But definately check it out..
Ya know - here is something I never have understood - as a Christian - I am supposed to go out and profess my faith to the world and try to convert people so that they can be "saved" - in my mind - it just does not seem very Christian like to push my religion on people who don't want to hear it or who are very content in the path they have chosen for their lives. Christan or not - what matters in the world is how we treat our fellow humans and our Earth. Fact is - if we treat people badly and tear the Earth apart with pollution and such - what are we really going to get in the end - no matter what religion you may be or may not be - first and foremost we are humans and should treat each other with respect - which includes respecting the fact that we are all different and we all have different beliefs. JMHO
By the way weatherbill... are you coming to the 'roo, or are you just fishin' for souls? If you are actually going to be there, we should totally get a beer together.
Sure! I'll be at the Roo and we'll have a few beers together.
someone did mention "hell" I don't beleive in a place called "hell". I do beleive in the grave and the 2nd deasth, but not a place of eternal suffering....that's crazy! And I know alotta christian beleive that, but they are stuck in 1800's reformation theology......that's prbably why alotta folks are atheists and really, I don't blame you at all......hell, if I beleived there was an eternal torment hell, I don't think I could sleep at ngiht....LOL....... Sorry you beleived what the church told you and not what the scriptures actually teach........
BTW, seems alotta hostility on this thread, almost to the point of some people's anger getting out of hand with their comments....
I just wanna know what happens if the Muslims are right...
Post by oatmealschnappz on Jun 4, 2007 23:36:59 GMT -5
I am a devout Atheist, and I came to that realization after making a profound spiritual journey!
The one truth that I know to be absolute, is that religion is a deeply personal and extremely dangerous subject to share with the people around you. Any subject that carries that kind of gravity and relies that heavily on sheer faith isn't really suited for honest public debate. For it to be totally pure and uncorrupted, it needs to stay a personal matter between you and your god of choice. People can't truly be converted to any reality other than the ones that they find for themselves. Arguing for or against any deep existential or theological "truth" will only strengthen the resolve of other people who believe differently but as strongly as you. As right as you are, they are also.
If you are truly righteous and pure of heart, your god undoubtedly knows. If you're not, it shouldn't matter to anyone else. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." is the best piece of advice ever written.
No matter who's right or wrong in the end, arguing about it now only trivializes our true existence.
I try to stay out of religious threads but, I felt like I had to say that. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. It was not my intention.
Peace.
Last Edit: Jun 4, 2007 23:41:25 GMT -5 by weatherbill - Back to Top
^^I do think when Im done with the book I am currently reading I am going to start reading the texts of all major religions. I will have to check out that movie though
Definately check out "Jesus Camp".. Very unbiased (to me anyway).. I think they did a great job of leaving it up to the viewer on how to interpret the film.. But definately check it out..
Post by tok4nug2nati0n on Jun 5, 2007 6:03:02 GMT -5
I really couldn't tell you... that's the honest truth about any religion.
Nobody really knows. I mean, you really just have to talk to people. My dad's side of the family was Lutheran and my mom is from Indonesia... my grandfather thought my dad was marrying a headhunter from New Guinea or something. Oddly enough, her family was Muslim when she was younger, then her family agreed that there really just wasn't something right with the religion and they converted to Pentacostal.
I've also come to realize that churches are just like people... I've been to churches that ask for 15 percent of what you make or they'll kick you out and I've been to churches that don't ask for a dime. I was also spat all the time on by one of the pastor's sons when I was in Sunday school, when I was little. I've gone from Buddhism to Southern Baptist.. I wouldn't mind Buddhism, only that after I got older, I started to realize that it's just philosophy, as is Atheism... etc. etc. I quit going to church for awhile after (different church, different pastor) this one pastor left after having an affair or something (not that it's really my business, but should I be listening to some guy I really don't know/trust talk about what I should believe?). Came back to the same church after they got a new pastor, etc. and I go every now and then.
So, I finally settled for a Southern Baptist church... a lot of them are really accepting and some of them are the footwashing/forehead-smacking establishments. Depends on who you're dealing with... I find it really soothing and mind-clearing. To be honest, I just really like the people I've come to find. I mean, I'll just sit in the back and talk to ladies in their 70s... This one lady told me that you can believe, but you can never really be allowed to believe and you really can't believe at the same time. I think even for the most devout Christians or any religion for that matter... people need to keep that in mind and that's what faith is all about to me. I couldn't tell you otherwise. Some people might not have enough faith in themselves... which is why I could never be an atheist. I wouldn't trust myslelf two-shits as my own religious leader, even though I draw the line as far as my beliefs go.
C'est la vie. Anyone who can't handle or understand that is simply just weak-minded.
I tend to just... think you see things in a bit of a different light when your mother comes from the largest muslim dictatorship in the World.
I'm not Conservative by any means, sorry for bringing politics into it, but there's some perception there. I believe because of all the beautiful things and how many times I could have died. I suppose I've just been through enough in my eighteen years. Hate the sin, love the sinner... My ideal of a perfect Christian resides somewhere between Johnny Cash and Jimmy Carter. If everything was peachy and perfect, then there wouldn't be a point... None of us are perfect people and perfection is merely perception, anyway.
If there's one thing I can guarantee, there isn't a damn one of you that isn't perfect enough for me. That's something I'll never be. Hats off to you folks.
That and well, depression really bites the biscuit sometimes, man.
When they come to take you down When they bring that wagon round When they come to call on you and drag your poor body down Just one thing I ask of you, just one thing for me Please forget you know my name, my darling sugaree Shake it, shake it sugaree, just dont tell them that you know me
Post by ellisintransit on Jun 5, 2007 10:18:11 GMT -5
These last few posts prove why this thread is so skewed against weatherbill. You guys have put your words out here in such a manner that even if it doesn't jive with other people's beliefs, we can have a rational discussion about it. weatherbill, I've read a bunch of your threads throughout this place, and you must be a very misunderstood person. I'm sure you're a fine person to deal with in real life, but in cyberspace you sound like a massive tool.
It's a good thing we're all on level heading when we get to the Roo. We'll all be simmering at the same temperature, no matter what "force" is in charge of it.
^^I do think when Im done with the book I am currently reading I am going to start reading the texts of all major religions. I will have to check out that movie though
There is a book called The Handbook of Denominations in the United States that is a pretty good tool for learning a little about most of the religions practiced in the US. Give bfrief background history of how the religion came about, how many divisions there are currently with approximate number of members and such - not a book to sit a read but an interesting reference tool
I am a devout Atheist, and I came to that realization after making a profound spiritual journey!
The one truth that I know to be absolute, is that religion is a deeply personal and extremely dangerous subject to share with the people around you. Any subject that carries that kind of gravity and relies that heavily on sheer faith isn't really suited for honest public debate. For it to be totally pure and uncorrupted, it needs to stay a personal matter between you and your god of choice. People can't truly be converted to any reality other than the ones that they find for themselves. Arguing for or against any deep existential or theological "truth" will only strengthen the resolve of other people who believe differently but as strongly as you. As right as you are, they are also.
If you are truly righteous and pure of heart, your god undoubtedly knows. If you're not, it shouldn't matter to anyone else. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." is the best piece of advice ever written.
No matter who's right or wrong in the end, arguing about it now only trivializes our true existence.
I try to stay out of religious threads but, I felt like I had to say that. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. It was not my intention.
Peace.
Very, very, VERY well put, my friend.. Mad Karma for you!
^^I do think when Im done with the book I am currently reading I am going to start reading the texts of all major religions. I will have to check out that movie though
There is a book called The Handbook of Denominations in the United States that is a pretty good tool for learning a little about most of the religions practiced in the US. Give bfrief background history of how the religion came about, how many divisions there are currently with approximate number of members and such - not a book to sit a read but an interesting reference tool
Post by bloomindaedalus on Jun 6, 2007 17:48:42 GMT -5
I may be wearing one of my Flying Spaghetti Montser tee shirts. If you see me, we can do the secret handshake and bow down to Her Holiness and eat some pink unicorn flavored pasta.
"...well yeah the guitar is good accompaniment but you can't like compose with it; I mean you can't base a whole song around the guitar." -Bob Dylan 1965
^^^ I'm most definately down for that sh*t! Pink unicorn flavored pasta is my favorite dish! But seriously, wear that shirt and I see ya, we'll have a "beer" and a beer together..
I am a devout Atheist, and I came to that realization after making a profound spiritual journey!
The one truth that I know to be absolute, is that religion is a deeply personal and extremely dangerous subject to share with the people around you. Any subject that carries that kind of gravity and relies that heavily on sheer faith isn't really suited for honest public debate. For it to be totally pure and uncorrupted, it needs to stay a personal matter between you and your god of choice. People can't truly be converted to any reality other than the ones that they find for themselves. Arguing for or against any deep existential or theological "truth" will only strengthen the resolve of other people who believe differently but as strongly as you. As right as you are, they are also.
If you are truly righteous and pure of heart, your god undoubtedly knows. If you're not, it shouldn't matter to anyone else. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." is the best piece of advice ever written.
No matter who's right or wrong in the end, arguing about it now only trivializes our true existence.
I try to stay out of religious threads but, I felt like I had to say that. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. It was not my intention.
uh.... im fairly certain the bible speaks of eternal damnation and torment:
For instance:
Matthew 13, verse 42 42: And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Actually, if you read the whole chapter, it's a parable, not to be taken literally.
I'm christian and I don't believe in a fiery hell. Psalms 146:4 - "When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing." Genesis 3:19 - "...for dust you are and to dust you will return"
When you're dead, you're dead, IMO.
(I don't really understand why religious groups have to get together at a music festival anyway.)
Post by ekoostikchick on Jun 8, 2007 9:19:31 GMT -5
With the whole regard to the crazies that stand there with the signs and megaphones, dressed up as jesus preaching about how we are all goin to hell: All i can say about them is ignore them....Itll drive them insane. They all get off on causing arise in us folks and if you just disregard them, give them a kind smile and move on then we win. No matter what religion you are, if we as a crowd stand there and argue with these people then they think that they are gettin their point across to us or they have reached us. They will get nothing but a kind smile from me
*I went to Indy 500 this year and they were there and they were yelling at all of us for goin to the race and not church that sun morning...my thought was, why werent they in church? *
About the whole religion thing, i believe first and foremost: We are all people. We all dance, sing, breath, talk, feel, live, and eventually die. Whatever happens to us along the way...is along the way
Christianity is a business. I've been to so many churches through work (PM me if you want to know why) and I've seen nothing but wealth. If these people are so loving and serving "Gods way".. then why do they have so much themselves. And only give it to those who come in to see them. It's just a front for homosexual priests to get young boys into their greasy hands.
Christianity is a business. I've been to so many churches through work (PM me if you want to know why) and I've seen nothing but wealth. If these people are so loving and serving "Gods way".. then why do they have so much themselves. And only give it to those who come in to see them. It's just a front for homosexual priests to get young boys into their greasy hands.
I am sorry you had that experience. I am no longer catholic (I am a recovering Catholic) but I can only say good things about the priest I know. Again sorry about your experience because obviously making a statement that general about a entire group of people you do not know comes from personal experience hence the hatred. If not you must just be trying offend people for your own amusement. In that case I feel sorry for you and hope you work on what ever issue you have that makes you this way. .
By the way I am not Christian either, I just don’t believe in stereotyping an entire population of people.