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so sad. oh well hopefully karma will rip these nazis a new one. everyone should just avoid wakarusa and then it will go away. its too bad though. it is a good lineup. im hoping that bands will also tell them to go fuck themselves. i know id lose respect for anyone willing to participate in luring peacful music lovers into a nazi drug trap.
I guess I agree with Juggernaught. I'm not trying to start a debate here or anything. It just alsway amazes me for people to be upset when they get busted for pot whether it's in there car or at a music event. I think pot should be legal......even used to enjoy it's offerings. But, as for right now, it is not legal. We all know that.....so don't be suprised if a Law Enforcement Officer takes offense to you smoking an illegal substance. Right???
The legal or not aregument can not be debated. Wether we like it or not, it is currently illegal in this country, blah!
However, it is very well known the a large percentage of Americans see the WOD as a farce and a waste of $$ and resources.
With that said, I find it alarming that the LEO is constantly looking for new ways to invade our privacy in the search for illegal activities.
Do not forget the old addage that says "It's not illegal until you get caught".
The methods they are employing to do the "catching" is really getting out of hand.
Really, at a hippy jam band music fest, what are they acomplishing by busting folks smoking a little weed? Only one thing, upping the amount of money (fines) brought into the community by outsiders who are not really welcome there, only thier money!
To quote George Clinton--"There's more money in pretending we're stopping it, than in selling it".
Several thousand dollars in fines plus expenses(out of state travel to appear, attorney fees, etc) for simple possession in both Lawrence, Kansas AND Coffee County Tennessee.
But sometimes laws don't mean squat. Try to tell a chemo/cancer patient she can't have what the whole country KNOWS is the best existing treatment for her suffering. And the LAW doesn't allow that someone needed to do what it took to help her.
Slight difference between this scenario and a hippy puff fest. But the LAW does not distinguish. The politics that put the law in place will account for it's eventual downfall. There is no place for propaganda in our constitution. One day the sheep will wake up, and hopefully they will be REAL PISSED OFF.
Get up Stand up... .... Keep your laws off my body !
Last Edit: Sept 18, 2006 10:30:55 GMT -5 by reehash - Back to Top
Eh. While I don't personally agree, those are the risks. Drugs are illegal, and while I think it's a massive waste of resources to go after drug offenders so aggressively, them's the breaks. Don't do illegal nuts and you won't get arrested. Simple.
its sad but true that those are the laws and i guess we all know the consequences. but there are laws in place regarding our rights to privacy and how investigations can be conducted. it dosent seem to me that this is within those laws. they should not be allowed to spy on our every move or stop our car and and strip us of our rights and invade our privacy because we happen to enjoy a certain type of music. do they use hi tech spy gear to spy on everyone at other large gatherings? how about the great kansas craft show and hoedown. i hear shakedown can get pretty sketchy after dark there. it seems as though we are singled out for some reason. seems like a clear case of profiling, illegal searchs and entrapment to me. and by the way i dont understand why they talk on the news about how the troops dont have enough of the high tech gear they need and not enough troops. why dont they send some of these ass hats over there with this high tech crap so they can play tough guy over there and maybe do something useful. i still think roo is too big and they wouldnt provoke unrest around a group that large. plus its private property. fuck festivals on state land. the nazis just have too much power at those places.
Last Edit: Sept 19, 2006 8:44:59 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
Well, I'm glad we can all aknowledge that selling, using and buying drugs are against the law. Profiling??? Really? It seems common sense to me, if you were law enforcement where would you set up camera's? A rock n roll festival or a craft festival? I know where mine would be. Why Waka? Because there are alot of drugs there!!!! I just don't understand why this suprises anybody or makes anyone angry. Now, if you are in your basement smoking a bowl and the police stick a camera in there you have a beef.
I'm not the brightest bulb in the pack but placing a camera to view an area with high drug traffic then watching a deal go down and busting the parties involved hardly seems like entrapment to me. Now, sending cops in dressed as festival goers initiating drug deals and busting the poop unsuspecting buyer would be entrapment. I could be wrong.
Anyway, to boil it down it seems to me that people who want to do drugs in public or open places that complain about privacy issues or entrapment really are just mad because they get caught breaking the law (that none of us agree with)
Post by aquadrunk on Sept 19, 2006 19:53:31 GMT -5
I'm not going to enter this conversation, but wanted to encourage everybody who finds the ultra-surveillance of Wakarusa to be more of a violation of your privacy than it is a useful drug enforcement tactic, to contact them via the website and tell them so. Many of you probably have already -- it can't hurt to shoot another message their way though.
I understand they were making buys undercover. I think where entrapment is concerned there is a difference between going around SELLING or OFFERING drugs to catch people and going to out and buying them. From the article, at least the way I read it, they would observe someone SELLING drugs then go and buy the drugs from that person to make the bust. They were not walking around offering drugs to people.
Come on, I'm on your side here.
Don't you think you give up your privacy by engaging in illegal activity? It's like if a crook breaks into a group of stores time after time and gets away with it. So the cops stake out the stores with camera equipment and he gets caught, then complains his privacy is being violated because they were watching him break the law.
Wakarusians: As many of you know, there were law enforcement and accompanying security issues at this year's event. Some of these issues continue to make headlines, and regrettably, create controversy. As organizers of the festival, it is very disappointing that these issues have taken away from what otherwise has been a highly praised and truly special event. We cannot tell you how truly sorry we are that these issues occurred at Wakarusa this year and we sincerely apologize to everyone for any violations of your rights and privacy.
To give you some background, we were informed that there would be an increased law enforcement presence at this year's event. Initially, we were supportive of this when it was presented as an effort to increase the safety of everyone in attendance. It became apparent however that enforcement, not safety and security, was the true mission of the increased law enforcement. We must make it perfectly clear that we did not know of any of the specific measures, tactics or instruments the various law enforcement agencies used at the event. More importantly, Wakarusa does not believe such tactics and equipment were necessary and does not support their use.
If there are not significant assurances that similar procedures won't materialize in the future, we will not host another Wakarusa Music and Camping Festival. There is simply no justification for these types of tactics to be used on an otherwise courteous and peaceful crowd. These actions are not what Wakarusa is about. Wakarusa has always taken pride in being a fan friendly event – we like to say, "a festival for music fans by music fans" and we mean it to our core. Wakarusa is a special event hosted in a very special setting and we do appreciate the vision of those local officials who allow Wakarusa to exist and to flourish. The festival has also benefited dozens of charities and not for profit groups. In the future, we hope to expand our mission of supporting great endeavors such as environmental causes, sustainable living models, and music education. In essence, this is an event that deserves everyone's respect and support.
We are searching for moral, political and legal support to help us resolve the issues we all faced this year. As before, we will continue to listen to your concerns and work with the authorities to make Wakarusa an event we all can be proud of. Our annual mission is to make Wakarusa one of the best, safest and most enjoyable events in the country. We sincerely appreciate your loyal support during the past three years and we hope we can maintain your trust and respect as we work through our growing pains.
Thank you for your support,
Brett Mosiman
*Brett Mosiman will participate in an online chat this Friday, September 22nd at 2:30 p.m. Central courtesy of the Lawrence Journal World (www.ljworld.com). Brett will respond to questions regarding past and future events. Specific information on the online chat will be posted to www.ljworld.com (September 20th).
well i find it hard to beleive they didnt know. but i guess it is a state park so the cops can do what they want. i think everyone should just boycott wakarusa until they move it to private property, preferably out of kansas. i know i wouldnt lure the community into a redneck bush state like kansas if i didnt have enough control of my own event to ensure that its not some sort of hippie trap for the nazis. a boycott is needed to show the rest of the nations festies that if ya screw with us and start throwing people in jail over some harmless fun then the community will go elsewhere and your event will be history.
Post by aquadrunk on Sept 20, 2006 23:15:07 GMT -5
knoxville said:
Don't you think you give up your privacy by engaging in illegal activity? It's like if a crook breaks into a group of stores time after time and gets away with it. So the cops stake out the stores with camera equipment and he gets caught, then complains his privacy is being violated because they were watching him break the law.
How about the privacy of those that aren't breaking the law?
While we all know there's a large percentage of "issue" people in the crowd; there's also an equal amount, if not more, of the "non-issue" people who are having their rights (1st and 4th amendments, I believe) violated in a big way. I realize that we're pretty much all on the same side here, but I believe this situation is rooted in a combination of unconstitutional drug laws, and if you're going to look past that, you're going to see the rights of 110% legal folks who are getting their rights violated. No matter how you look at it, the folks behind this 1984 bullsh*t are in the wrong.
1st Amendment Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
4th Amendment The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.
I assume the "right of the people peaceably to assemble" is the part of the fist amendment you would be talking about. They certainly were assembled and most of them saw some great music and didn't sell any drugs.
As far as the 4th amendment is concerned, we are dealing with the camera issue, right? I don't think watching people on camera then targeting the ones selling drugs is such an invasion on the ones that are not. Now, I'm speaking of camera's in the festival area and Shakedown not camera's watching the campgrounds. If I'm walking around a festival feel free to watch me all day long (wouldn't be very fun)
We can probably put this one to rest. I do think the police went overboard on this one. It just pisses me off when people get mad after they get busted with pot. Until it is legal (crossing fingers) no one should be suprised. And when police concentrate their efforts in a place where they have a hunch there will be a high concentration of drugs, you know........like a large music festival, I would say they are making a pretty good assumption.
I just don't think the situation for pot smokers is going to get any better in the near or distant future.
Post by aquadrunk on Sept 21, 2006 15:00:53 GMT -5
knoxville said:
1st Amendment Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
4th Amendment The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.
I assume the "right of the people peaceably to assemble" is the part of the fist amendment you would be talking about. They certainly were assembled and most of them saw some great music and didn't sell any drugs.
As far as the 4th amendment is concerned, we are dealing with the camera issue, right? I don't think watching people on camera then targeting the ones selling drugs is such an invasion on the ones that are not. Now, I'm speaking of camera's in the festival area and Shakedown not camera's watching the campgrounds. If I'm walking around a festival feel free to watch me all day long (wouldn't be very fun)
We can probably put this one to rest. I do think the police went overboard on this one. It just pisses me off when people get mad after they get busted with pot. Until it is legal (crossing fingers) no one should be suprised. And when police concentrate their efforts in a place where they have a hunch there will be a high concentration of drugs, you know........like a large music festival, I would say they are making a pretty good assumption.
I just don't think the situation for pot smokers is going to get any better in the near or distant future.
Well at least you understood what I was referring to!
This is just one of those 'agree to disagree' situations, my man.
I agree, and I do respect your opinion. At least we were able to have a grown up discussion without hurling insults and slanders!! Healthy debate never killed anyone.
I agree, and I do respect your opinion. At least we were able to have a grown up discussion without hurling insults and slanders!! Healthy debate never killed anyone.
Something rarely seen on message boards. That's why I love this one!
Karma for both of you!
Last Edit: Sept 21, 2006 17:43:16 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
While I agree that the secret or hidden cameras are a bit of police overkill, there is no expectation of privacy when out in public. And like so many have already said, you assume this risk when you break the law in public. Ya'll don't fret though. The times are a changing!
Post by wbennettjr on Sept 25, 2006 15:16:54 GMT -5
I am intrigued that the Wakarusa organizers are basically planning to tell Kansas, "live our pot-smoking hippy friends alone or we'll take all these tourist dollars somewhere else."
You don't have to be a smoker to know that the focus Kansas and Federal authorities took was bullshit. And if they didn't think their tactics would cripple the vibe at WAKA, they should have been more forward thinking and compared potential lost revenue with the revenue gained by harrassing possessers. Cops have a choice in which laws they enforce to a degree, or we would all be constantly busted for jaywalking. I believe that they have a higher purpose-to serve and protect. Ask just about any urban cop what they think about enforcing pot laws, and most will tell it is not a priority. Maybe a pinch in the tourism column will help Kansas get it's priorities straight.
Let's also not forget that a person on this board was shaken down for a 1400 dollar small time pot posession charge at your very own bonnaroo in Tennessee. I believe, due to the small comparative # of arrests, that this poor bastard was just an example so the Tennessee fuzz could say they were doing their jobs. But it still would suck to be that one poor bastard. Illegal or not, 1400 bucks is a joke. If he appeared, it would probably be 300 bucks. That is a manipulation of the law for the sake of REVENUE.
Well, your right cause I'm not a "smoker". As for the focus of the authorities...that is your opinion, we all have one. I really don't think any law enforcement agency that was this bent on getting drug dealers and users cares about the WAKA vibe much at all. If they had it their way WAKA would not come back, no matter the cost.
I don't think to many officers would put illegal drugs and jaywalking in the same sentence. Ask "any" urban cop? I would guess there are many that would take offense to that. Notice I did not say "all". I think it's impossible to speak for any or all of anything.
Look, the very simple point is this. If you do not break the law by having or doing illegal substances you will not have to worry about the fuzz. If you choose to partake then don't be suprised when you have to face consequences (sp?) The law is the law, manipulated or not. For now anyway, hopefully that will change in the near future.
why would a pig take offense at that. there are both laws that they are paid and sworn to uphold. one can cause traffic accidents and could be a threat to public safety. the other is just poeple trying to have some fun and pose no threat. but hey they make a lot of money off of drug busts. not so much on jaywalking. they dont care to serve and protect anything but their own intrests. i think its sad they get to pick and choose which laws to enforce based on thier pocketbooks. anf fuck the law. laws that i beleive are illegal, oppresiive, and have no basis other then financial gains for pigs is not a law that i live by. just because im born here i still have my own sense of right and wrong. i know whats good or bad. what hurts others and what dosent. im not gonna have a bunch of rich, biggot, nazi lawmakers tell me whats right and worng or what i can and cant do if its posing no harm to anyone or anything. im my own person and dont recognize the laws of these horrible people. they can arrest ya and give ya a ticket. but fuck it.. just another state i cant speed in. i wish theyd just leave us alone. bust some fuckin kidnappers or rapists. or the old guy goin 35 down the highway causing accisents while i drive by smoking a bowl.
Knox---for the record, i did say ask "just about any urban cop". Not trying to be absolute here.
And DUDE, I'm with you. The law says i should not score a sack for a friend's mom dying of cancer, even though she can no longer keep her morphine down. The law was put into place with BIG PHARMA lobbying money. F the law, I'll follow my heart(and brain and the recommendation of countless independent studies).
And what if our STATE laws say one thing, and our FEDERAL laws say another ?
And what about laws put in place in other countries by multinational corporations that make it illegal to gather rainwater, or the seeds from last year's crops. Laws put in place to redirect REVENUE to the richest of the rich(any who didn't like my clearchannel rants are bound to get fed up with my Montesanto et al rants). Sorry, but I've got a brain and a heart, and they both tell me WHICH laws are to be ignored. Our laws early parole rapists so that possessors may have prison space while they build more prisons.
Let your life be a friction against the machine---Henry Thoreau
Create the change you wish to see in the world---Gandhi
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of HAPPINESS--some crusty old fucks who weren't motivated enough by profit and greed
I'm with both of you! Thinking the laws are stupid and self-serving............I'm all about friction, and changing the world you/we live in. But until that friction CHANGES the current laws, when you guy to buy that sack for your friends mom don't be suprised to end up with a hefty fine or jail time. Despite all of our high or low browed reason and logic pointing out how stupid the laws are...........it's just not reality..................yet.
Post by wbennettjr on Sept 30, 2006 13:20:41 GMT -5
So if we see somebody getting hassled for selling dime bags, we should surround them and make them understand that their type of enforcement is not welcome at our vibefest. If they understand that they will either have to back off or call in the cavalry, who knows?
legalistic-moralistic role conflict. What the law says isn't always the right thing to do.
drug busts at a music festival=shooting fish in a barrel.
I would have considered Wakarusa for next summer, but it would take a whole hell of a lot of convincing to get me to go. And I was clean at both Bonnaroos I've attended. I just wouldn't want all that crap ruining the vibe.
To me it's not a "break the law and get caught, then don't cry about it" situation. I wouldn't have gotten caught. But I would have had a crappy time watching all the good folks around me going down.
I think this will have a big impact on the waka festival this year. I dont think it is gonna get that bad at roo,they are makin too much money off of roo they aint gonna mess that up, the only thing you have to worry about are the searches at the gates, and the mounties ridin round, but the mounties usually wont bust you for smokin pot.
