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I haven't read this whole thread so I apologize if I am repeating something or horribly off topic. However, it bothers when people say, "Its illegal, thats why you shouldn't do it." Just because something is a law doesn't mean it is moral, or that is a just law. Obviously this isn't perfect analogy of any sorts but it makes me think of segregation. Just because it was illegal for Rosa Parks to sit at the front of the bus, does that mean that it was bad for her to do so? That it wasn't her right? Don't get worked up because I know they are very different things and segregation was obviously a much more serious matter about the degradation of humankind...but just because something is illegal doesn't mean that you should accept it. Instead of resigning yourself to something, participate and work for change! Don't let the government bully you into thinking something you know is false. Like someone said earlier, Get up, stand up! Stand up for your rights!
herecomesthesun, I'm with ya 100 percent. You should stand up for what you think is right. The only point I've been trying to make is.......... until your efforts change the laws......don't bitch about the fines and possible jail time for breaking the law.
We need law and order in this world. But the problem is that they don't care about people...the law that is. They care about money...it's all about money. It's like the seat belt law...not wearing your seatbelt is unsafe...oh but go ahead Mr. Biker ride a motorcycle without a helmet (or with one for that matter)...Sorry son I'm going to have to arrest you for that Marijuana...*cough* *cough*...hey Mr. Officer can I bum a cigarette?...The government just doesn't want you selling anything that they is not being taxed....We work and our salary gets taxed....then we buy stuff and it gets taxed...something is wrong here.
Before long this will happen...You will buy a car (with your taxed money)...you will take care of it and have it too long and you will get a letter in the mail to pay taxes on your car. "Mr. Taxpayer you have had your car too long the US gov't needs more money, we expected you would buy another $20,000 vehicle and we would get about $3,000 in taxes from your purchase. Since you haven't bought a car we need to charge you a new you've had your car too long tax"
Post by stuckinutero on Feb 27, 2007 11:34:29 GMT -5
georgaroo said:
We need law and order in this world. But the problem is that they don't care about people...the law that is. They care about money...it's all about money. It's like the seat belt law...not wearing your seatbelt is unsafe...oh but go ahead Mr. Biker ride a motorcycle without a helmet (or with one for that matter)...Sorry son I'm going to have to arrest you for that Marijuana...*cough* *cough*...hey Mr. Officer can I bum a cigarette?...The government just doesn't want you selling anything that they is not being taxed....We work and our salary gets taxed....then we buy stuff and it gets taxed...something is wrong here.
Before long this will happen...You will buy a car (with your taxed money)...you will take care of it and have it too long and you will get a letter in the mail to pay taxes on your car. "Mr. Taxpayer you have had your car too long the US gov't needs more money, we expected you would buy another $20,000 vehicle and we would get about $3,000 in taxes from your purchase. Since you haven't bought a car we need to charge you a new you've had your car too long tax"
If you really believe in alot of that then you should go check out the Libertarian party.
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
I went to waka last year and despite the whole camera thing I had a really good time......I won't go back this year just to make sure it doesn't happen again.......I will say it was totally un-called for i saw a girl set her backpack down in the shade to just sit and relax and these cops came up and grab her bag and asked her what she was selling then the arrested her cause she had some stuff in her bag.......the cops totally abused their power at waka.....my friend is vendor and came from stl and he was selling glass on friday totally paid for the spot and the cops woke him up real early saturday wanting to look thru his things and make sure he wasnt selling anything else he wouldnt let them so they said the gov of KS outlawed selling glass and they had to pack up and leave so they packed up and had to park their vehicles by the cops.....yet friday they were letting everyone sell glass.....our neighbors got busted smoking in their tent cause the cops were using night vision to watch the lighter being lit........my favorite part of the whole thing was when everyone at the lake was hooting and hollering and mooning these cops sitting at the top of the hill watching us
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. Hunter S. Thompson
No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master. Hunter S. Thompson
like nwa said. man, f**k the police!!!! they should be respected members of the community. instead they are some of the most hated pieces of nuts in the community. protect and serve my ass. the only thing they want to do is fine people and make them take crazy classes at 500 a pop. dirtbags!!!
Last Edit: Mar 19, 2007 14:14:12 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
Post by mangopositive on Mar 19, 2007 14:40:51 GMT -5
knoxville said:
herecomesthesun, I'm with ya 100 percent. You should stand up for what you think is right. The only point I've been trying to make is.......... until your efforts change the laws......don't bitch about the fines and possible jail time for breaking the law.
The problem with this is that we can't change the law. Ever. We do not, have never lived in a "democracy". It is a plutocracy. Our government is a corporation who's sole job is to make sure that other corporations are getting their fair share. We at the bottom are literally "slaves" blinded by our materialistic persuits. The "Haves" are the old royalty. Once civilization began to reject the idea of nobility, they found a clever way to keep themselves above the common man. Make the government "by the people" while the people with the money (corporations) "contribute" to the selected politician's lifestyle, thus directing the decision making process. All the while, spread this rumor that people with money "earned" it fair and square. You have to bring the occasional peon to prominence to make this stick. The odds are stacked in their favor. They control the boob-tube. They tell us what to think, and at least the greater majority will think it. Marijuana is wrong. Why? Because drugs are bad. Like Ritalin? Oh!!! Excuse me... I mispoke. "Some" drugs are bad.
The reason that MJ is "bad" is because they make too much money with it illegal. Back in the 20's, it was land owners with a big stake in the lumber industry that first made the push for criminalization. They changed the name from "hemp" to a spanish word (playing to the 20's fear and disgust of all things Mexican). They then played on parent's fears that their white children would run off with those black jazz musicians or Mexicans. They did this, because:
a) Hemp is a better, cheaper, and more land efficient "paper" than wood pulp. b) Dow had just created a nifty invention called "nylon rope", which happened to be more expensive (and less eco-friendly) than the "hemp" ropes, made popular by every sailing vessle that had ever existed. c) MJ is a more effective at treating head aches, appetite stimulation, muscle pain, or insomnia that any of the leading overpriced medication.
Today it remains illegal because the law enforcement system is grossly inflated for the purpose of "handling" the war on drugs. Make drugs legal, 70 percent of all law enforcement personel lose their jobs. Take a look at the largest donators to "The Partnership for a Drug Free America" and you will find ALL of the pharmaceutical companies, ALL of the alchohol / tobacco companies, and... THE LARGEST BUILDER OF PRISONS IN THE WORLD.
So in short... you should DEFINITELY bitch about the law being enforced. It is an unjust law that "we the people" will never, ever have a say in. Not because we're apathetic, but because we are slaves.
like nwa said. man, f**k the police!!!! they should be respected members of the community. instead they are some of the most hated pieces of nuts in the community. protect and serve my ass. the only thing they want to do is fine people and make them take crazy classes at 500 a pop. dirtbags!!!
Keep in mind - not all cops are like that and it is not fair for you to generalize and make assumptions. I am sure most everyone realizes (or maybe not) cops are one of the most underpaid professions out there - in Pearl, Mississippi - a suburb of Jackson with a major drug throughway running right through it - the average salary of a cop is around $28,000 per year. Hmmm - these people put their lives on the line to "serve and protect".
Yes - there are bad cops out there - yes there are over zealous cops out to make a name for themselves - but don't lump all of them into one generalization cuz it just ain't like that!
i dont think they are underpaid. most of them (not all) are paid exactly what they are worth. they drive around and mow down donuts looking for people to harrass. they are a gang and they are out to make money. they dont make money putting real criminlas in jail. that costs money. so they harrass citizens over vicitmless crimes so they can pay for their paychecks. most dont have the smarts to do anything else. 4 of my best friends became cops aftter school. (i havent spoken to any since) they were all c students, thought a gun, a badge, and some power would make them a man but were nowhere near man enough to join the military. if it wasnt for being a cop they would be changing oil or flipping burgers. and i did druqs and drove around drunk with all of them. now they are busting people for the same thing. sure your average cop makes chicken scratch. they dont do anything. they are little worker ants who make the money to meet the budget. the people that are actually protecting and serving are called in on real crimes. rape, murder, terrorism. and they are paid far more. because they are worth it and they do something worth while. far too many of them are wasting their time worrying about druqs and prostitutes. and lets not forget all the lives lost world wide in this war on druqs. the 4 billion dollar opium crop that funds terrorists. its not me and you buying a bag from a kid at a show thats supporting terroism its our druq laws. legalize heroin and they would be broke. and there is no good reason not to. if the legalized heroin and crack tommorow woud you go to the store and buy it????? neither would i. it wont increase the number of users and they wont have to be involved in shady criminla ctivites to get it. it would be cheap. not trying to bash your opinion. your entitled to it. just pointing out how mine is quite different from yours.
Last Edit: Mar 19, 2007 15:04:00 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
Post by phishinalong on Mar 19, 2007 15:06:19 GMT -5
let us not forget that this nuts doesnt happen when you have your festie on PRIVATE PROPERTY. of course the cops are gonna be all over it when its PUBLIC PROPERTY.....plus im sure that the state gets waaaaay more money in fines by just watching this plot of land rather than patrolling the regular streets there. sad state of affairs but what do you expect?
not trying to bash your opinion. your entitled to it. just pointing out how mine is quite different from yours.
Understood - your opinon is way different from mine - we all have our reasons for our opinons - but I have had way too many cop friends get killed in senseless killings while out there making $25-$35K per year tp protect people who have opinions like yours. Whether you like it or not - there are good cops and bad cops and the good cops are out there trying to make the world a safer place. The bad cops just give everyone something to talk about.
The other thing to think about - there are good cops out there that support legalization and taxation of substances but they have a job to do and that job is enforcing the law that we currently have - not the law they wish we had.
well i am sorry to hear about your friends. thats no good. how many of those deaths were due to this senseless war on druqs?
and i know that lots of cops wish they were doing soemthing better with their time and disagree with our laws. but i have a hard time respecting soemone who will swaer to enforce somthing they dont beleive in at the expense of others so they can make next to nothing. i wouldnt respect them if they made a million dollars a year either. the day that my survival depends on mistreating someone else then thats the day i will waste away and die. and this is certainly not that type of situation. they are choosing ot be that way for no good reason.
ive had way too many friends sentenced to wasting years of their life in some jail dealing with the most violent people on earth everyday for doing nothing to respect anyone that helps put them there. and even less respect for anyone who thinks its wrong but does it anyways. and way too many innocent people have been harmed in crimes involving druqs in 1 way or the other.
and i agree about fests on public property. those lineups are always luring me in. im just gonna make a final decision now and stick to it. i will never go to a fest on public property. hopefully waka will get out of kansas. seems like the roo site would be a good spot now that superfly owns it.
well i am sorry to hear about your friends. thats no good. how many of those deaths were due to this senseless war on druqs?
Only 1 out of 4 - the other 3 were domestic violence calls that I am sure involved alcohol or drugs in some way.
Good point about them swearing to enforce something they don't believe in - our system is definately flawed - our whole justice system is that way - I spent 16 years as a criminal defense paralegal - so I have seen just about all there is to see.
I haven't read this whole thread so I apologize if I am repeating something or horribly off topic. However, it bothers when people say, "Its illegal, thats why you shouldn't do it." Just because something is a law doesn't mean it is moral, or that is a just law. Obviously this isn't perfect analogy of any sorts but it makes me think of segregation. Just because it was illegal for Rosa Parks to sit at the front of the bus, does that mean that it was bad for her to do so? That it wasn't her right? Don't get worked up because I know they are very different things and segregation was obviously a much more serious matter about the degradation of humankind...but just because something is illegal doesn't mean that you should accept it. Instead of resigning yourself to something, participate and work for change! Don't let the government bully you into thinking something you know is false. Like someone said earlier, Get up, stand up! Stand up for your rights!
hells yeah. this is the same arguement that i used against my mom to get her to let me smoke without punishment, and it worked.
Wow mangopositive, you go on living as a slave. I will continue living here in the USA and giving thanks for every day I wake up in the greatest place in the world. For the record, you/we SHOULD yell your head off at the law being enforced, I never said to sit quietly. All I'm saying is you should not be suprised when the heat comes down on you for breaking laws, good or bad ones.
agreeing to disagree is the only solution on this one. No reason for anyone to get too upset.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
let us not forget that this nuts doesnt happen when you have your festie on PRIVATE PROPERTY. of course the cops are gonna be all over it when its PUBLIC PROPERTY.....plus im sure that the state gets waaaaay more money in fines by just watching this plot of land rather than patrolling the regular streets there. sad state of affairs but what do you expect?
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. Hunter S. Thompson
No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master. Hunter S. Thompson
Post by mangopositive on Mar 19, 2007 17:08:43 GMT -5
knoxville said:
Wow mangopositive, you go on living as a slave. I will continue living here in the USA and giving thanks for every day I wake up in the greatest place in the world. For the record, you/we SHOULD yell your head off at the law being enforced, I never said to sit quietly. All I'm saying is you should not be suprised when the heat comes down on you for breaking laws, good or bad ones.
agreeing to disagree is the only solution on this one. No reason for anyone to get too upset.
With that clarification, we most definitely agree. On our freedom? Eh... I suppose it's a perspective thing. I hope no one was getting "upset" about an internet conversation.
I haven't read this whole thread so I apologize if I am repeating something or horribly off topic. However, it bothers when people say, "Its illegal, thats why you shouldn't do it." Just because something is a law doesn't mean it is moral, or that is a just law. Obviously this isn't perfect analogy of any sorts but it makes me think of segregation. Just because it was illegal for Rosa Parks to sit at the front of the bus, does that mean that it was bad for her to do so? That it wasn't her right? Don't get worked up because I know they are very different things and segregation was obviously a much more serious matter about the degradation of humankind...but just because something is illegal doesn't mean that you should accept it. Instead of resigning yourself to something, participate and work for change! Don't let the government bully you into thinking something you know is false. Like someone said earlier, Get up, stand up! Stand up for your rights!
Ummm, does anyone remember prohibition?
I'm officially making this quote my signature thanks to this thread: "Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience and rebellion that progress has been made."
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Soul of Man Under Socialism
"Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience and rebellion that progress has been made." Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Soul of Man Under Socialism
"You're either on the bus or off the bus." Ken Kesey
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson
let us not forget that this nuts doesnt happen when you have your festie on PRIVATE PROPERTY. of course the cops are gonna be all over it when its PUBLIC PROPERTY.....plus im sure that the state gets waaaaay more money in fines by just watching this plot of land rather than patrolling the regular streets there. sad state of affairs but what do you expect?
thats exactly what the problem is!
if all inforooers put like 5 bucks a month into a fund it would probably only take a couple years to buy some property and throw festivals.
Last Edit: Mar 19, 2007 17:44:17 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
Post by roolacksreality on Mar 19, 2007 19:27:58 GMT -5
I think people get mad at cops when they get busted. The laws are stupid but cops are just doing their jobs. It's the idiots that run this could-be-great nation who we should focus our malcontent upon. They are the ones who come up with the myriad of stupid drug-control-related laws that fail to accomplish anything. Now, I'm not saying it is completely unreasonable to blame cops, since it is easy to; however, if we ever want to end this stupid war and stop arrests that take place at Wakarusa and other festivals we need to go to the source of it all. I know I'm thinking on more of a national scale now, but it justs enrages me to think that we spend 400+ billion dollars a year on an endless war. It's been in full gear since the days of Reaganomics and - I have to double-check- but people are still getting high.
ya weve got a couple of senseless multi-hundered billion dollar a year wars going on. but we live in a system where you vote red or blue. if you dont vote for red or blue your vote dosent count. and depending what state you live in you red or blue vote probably dosent count either. 2000 showed the flaws and yet nothing has changed. and unfortnatly red and blue are both for this crazy war on drugs.
Last Edit: Mar 19, 2007 19:59:28 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top