Whether it's your first Bonnaroo or you’re a music festival veteran, we welcome you to Inforoo.
Here you'll find info about artists, rumors, camping tips, and the infamous Roo Clues. Have a look around then create an account and join in the fun. See you at Bonnaroo!!
Post by crazykittensmile on Feb 19, 2007 15:00:10 GMT -5
mikede said:
Can someone cut an paste the article?? i dotn want Cannibusnews.com on my works web browser history . . .. theres karma in it for you!!! lol thanks
haha, mike, here ya go
Police Used High-Tech Surveillance at Festival Posted by CN Staff on September 15, 2006 at 18:18:18 PT By Eric Weslander Source: Lawrence Journal-World
Kansas -- Hidden, high-dollar equipment helped police crack down on drug dealing at this year’s Wakarusa Festival.
A new article in a trade journal, Government Security News, describes the roughly $250,000 worth of hidden-camera, night-vision and thermal-imaging equipment used by police throughout the festival grounds. The equipment was courtesy of a California company that agreed to give a free demonstration of its wares for marketing purposes.
The company estimated that they were able to cover 85 percent of the festival grounds with about a half dozen hidden cameras. One camera, for example, was mounted atop a light tower and used on “Shakedown Street,” a bustling area viewed as a problem spot for drug dealing.
“It’s hopefully a win-win for everybody except the crooks,” said Mike McRory, vice president of business development for NS Microwave Inc., of Spring Valley, Calif., which markets security and surveillance equipment and is owned by the defense contractor Allied Defense Group.
The company builds “covert” cameras disguised as everything from electrical boxes to birdhouses. They’re capable of seeing at night as long as there’s some ambient light nearby such as a lantern or fire.
‘Nobody Knew’
Four of its cameras were “consistently deployed” throughout the festival, and at least two others were there to be used as needed, according to the company. The cameras were controlled by a computerized command center in a 21-foot trailer that was parked atop a hill in the middle of a Frisbee golf course inside the park.
“Nobody knew,” said Kevin Danciak, the company’s Midwestern sales representative. “It just looked like parabolic dishes on top of a trailer.”
The plan to use the cameras came about when Danciak ran into Clinton State Park manager Jerry Schecher at a Kansas narcotics officers’ meeting early this year or late last year. Danciak was there to promote his equipment. Schecher was looking for answers to growing concerns about drug dealing at the festival, which was heading into its third year and was growing in popularity.
Had there not been a strong move this year by law enforcement to control the situation, Schecher said, the state would not have allowed the festival to continue.
“This is a crowd that has a high expectation of privacy and freedom, and I respect that, within limits,” Schecher said. “I struggled with this a little bit, but I felt like we were doing it for the right reasons. If it was meant to be Big Brother and spying on people, I wouldn’t have done it.”
One festivalgoer said the hidden cameras were “a shame and kind of embarrassing.
“I feel like it was really a big mistake because people at a festival are trying to have a good time and let loose. I would be willing to bet that most people wouldn’t be OK with that had they known,” Ali Mangan said.
She said law enforcement should have at leased publicized the hidden cameras. The surveillance was conducted at the expense of the privacy of people not selling drugs, Mangan said.
Safer Means
The main things the cameras captured, Danciak said, were hand-to-hand drug transactions and drug use. After zooming into an area where drug sales were happening, police could then send an officer in to make an undercover buy that was caught on camera.
“We could see if there was a problem and then address it rather than just having to focus all of our foot patrols or enforcement in that area all of the time,” Schecher said.
Danciak said the result was a safer way of busting drug deals.
“No fighting, no running, no guns drawn, nothing,” he said. “It was just, ‘You pop around the corner, you’re there, you identify yourself and you see people just deflate.’”
He declined comment on whether the cameras covered the festival stage areas or campground areas outside the festival.
At least a month before the festival began, Schecher said, promoter Brett Mosiman was notified of the plan for security cameras. Mosiman did not return phone calls Thursday seeking comment.
The cameras’ presence was not publicized in the Lawrence area before or after the festival.
The article in Government Security News said the images produced were so good that some alleged dealers entered pleas based on the strength of that evidence. But Dist. Atty. Charles Branson, whose office is charged with prosecuting the cases, said he did not know of any cases in which that happened.
Many of those arrested at the festival were allowed to plead to lower charges in a massive docket call a few days after the hearing.
Police seized more than $11,000 in suspected drug money, but some of that came outside the festival grounds in a Kansas Highway Patrol checkpoint.
Lt. Kari Wempe, of the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office, the lead agency at the festival, said the camera system worked well.
“It gave a good overall aerial view of the grounds, which we would not have had otherwise,” she said.
But so far, she said, the sheriff has no plans to buy any of the company’s equipment. Schecher said he would like to use a similar system at the park in the future, perhaps for catching people who try to break into pay stations, but not necessarily for next year’s festival.
“Kevin has nice toys, but they’re expensive,” he said.
Staff writer George Diepenbrock contributed to this story.
damnit..... im leaning back towards not going. damn lineup is so good though. im not really worried about the cops. i wouldnt be getting too crazy with roo the next weekend anyways. but i really dont wann be around that vibe or support anyone who would put such a great lineup on public property in fucking kansas. what a horrible thing to do!
Post by Mrs. Featherbottom on Feb 19, 2007 15:44:38 GMT -5
dmbfanintn said:
However, it is very well known the a large percentage of Americans see the WOD as a farce and a waste of $$ and resources.
Baleedat! Kudos to Drunkk and Knoxville for a nice, Roo-like conversation. Different opinions, but proof that it's the music and people that make Bonnaroo, not drugs. With such a tolerant crowd, I think it necessary to highlight the responsibility that accompanies drug use/possesion. I would imagine that more than a few of those arrested may have been obvious in their activities. That's great if you like to enjoy herb or whatever. But respect your surroundings and be responsible for your actions...
Post by stuckinutero on Feb 19, 2007 17:21:29 GMT -5
Alright, this is gonna be fairly sizable. Here it goes.
I think alot of people look at things like this in the wrong way. When things like this occur they set standards. While people might scrutinize their Police dept now future similar happenings will be met with much less outrage.
Public surveillance has become a serious privacy issue in this country, and its not getting any better. This is not just a matter of government agencies spying on festivals, but government agencies spying on us in general. This area of the law is what is referred to as a "Grey area". Pretty self-explanatory, its not black & white.
Grey areas of the law generally work to the benefit of the wrong sides. A great example is the RICO Act (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act). Initially it was a law that was very much needed to combat organized crime in this country. However it was also a terribly written law and has been used by federal prosecutors to ruin the lives of thousands of honest Americans.
All over our country we're seeing our Government reaching deeper and deeper into the private sector. We are now replacing our Highway Patrols with speed sensing cameras, using unwarranted wire-taps on our own citizens, and lets not even get into how much of OUR money they're using to do this.
We can get into a trillion different debates on a million topics. I'm not getting paid by the word so I will sum up my feelings. We call America a "Free Country", too many people also still look at us as the only world superpower. These statements are becoming bigger jokes as the countdown to bonnaroo passes above me. As time has passed we have given our government too much power, by doing so we have sacrificed bits and pieces of our own personal liberties.
We are a nation that was started on the idea of learning from histories mistakes and setting forth on the correct path. Save some bumps in the road, we where. We have also made much progress on some key social issues ranging from womens rights to the basic human rights of people worldwide.
However we are giving our government too much power and they are repeating past mistakes. The concept that if every drug known to man where legalized in this country it would cause mass addictions and a nationwide epidemic is just flat out absurd.
One point I will absolutely not debate with anyone is the FACT that it is easier for a 14 year old to get a bundle of dope than a 6 pack from his local 7-11. Drug cartels make more profit than we spend on our fake ass "war on drugs". If you think for a second that these cartels are low class peddlers you're whacked yourself. They have everything from jetliners, to air surveillance, radar, the whole 9. The same stuff we do.
We created a black market with insane amounts of profit involved and low risk. We did so because we sent a bunch of innocent kids to Vietnam to get slaughtered and needed another "successful" war our home turf to take away the attention.
And the best part is it was done by possibly the smartest man to ever gain the presidency (<-- sarcasm) Mr Richard Nixon. A man who couldn't look a few decades back and realize the catastrophe that was Prohibition, which is EXACTLY what the "War on Drugs" is today. Drugs are more readily available at 1/100th of the cost, purer, and much more addictive.
The fact remains, the VAST majority of people who don't smoke crack now NEVER WILL. Why don't we take this hundreds of millions of dollars and throw them into educating kids properly about drugs, not this "this is your brain on drugs" bullsh*t that made me laugh when I was 10. They're so afraid to just bring a Junkie in rehab into a school and let HIM tell the kids how horrible it is and how he's losing his teeth and his family won't speak to him. Put those tax dollars into rehabbing people with these problems, giving them REAL help. It would be much cheaper to throw every junkie in the US on a Methadone program than to continue to fuel the war on drugs.
The only way we will ever advance as a society is through education and learning from past mistakes. If we properly educate our youth about these drugs (which we most certainly don't now) then we will have no drug epidemic. There will always be people who f*ck themselves up, but through education people will do it less. As a society we have to fix leaks. I don't think enforcing a police state does that. We waste so much money on War and enforcing useless laws while we should be truly educating mankind to not make these mistakes.
I'm going to stop now. Ahh Presidents day, No school. Immediate Karma for anyone who read the entire thing. If you have a contrasting view to mine Id love to hear. No vicious words or childish garbage.
"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana "Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced." - Albert Einstein
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." - Thomas Jefferson
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
Alright, this is gonna be fairly sizable. Here it goes.
I think alot of people look at things like this in the wrong way. When things like this occur they set standards. While people might scrutinize their Police dept now future similar happenings will be met with much less outrage.
Public surveillance has become a serious privacy issue in this country, and its not getting any better. This is not just a matter of government agencies spying on festivals, but government agencies spying on us in general. This area of the law is what is referred to as a "Grey area". Pretty self-explanatory, its not black & white.
Grey areas of the law generally work to the benefit of the wrong sides. A great example is the RICO Act (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act). Initially it was a law that was very much needed to combat organized crime in this country. However it was also a terribly written law and has been used by federal prosecutors to ruin the lives of thousands of honest Americans.
All over our country we're seeing our Government reaching deeper and deeper into the private sector. We are now replacing our Highway Patrols with speed sensing cameras, using unwarranted wire-taps on our own citizens, and lets not even get into how much of OUR money they're using to do this.
We can get into a trillion different debates on a million topics. I'm not getting paid by the word so I will sum up my feelings. We call America a "Free Country", too many people also still look at us as the only world superpower. These statements are becoming bigger jokes as the countdown to bonnaroo passes above me. As time has passed we have given our government too much power, by doing so we have sacrificed bits and pieces of our own personal liberties.
We are a nation that was started on the idea of learning from histories mistakes and setting forth on the correct path. Save some bumps in the road, we where. We have also made much progress on some key social issues ranging from womens rights to the basic human rights of people worldwide.
However we are giving our government too much power and they are repeating past mistakes. The concept that if every drug known to man where legalized in this country it would cause mass addictions and a nationwide epidemic is just flat out absurd.
One point I will absolutely not debate with anyone is the FACT that it is easier for a 14 year old to get a bundle of dope than a 6 pack from his local 7-11. Drug cartels make more profit than we spend on our fake ass "war on drugs". If you think for a second that these cartels are low class peddlers you're whacked yourself. They have everything from jetliners, to air surveillance, radar, the whole 9. The same stuff we do.
We created a black market with insane amounts of profit involved and low risk. We did so because we sent a bunch of innocent kids to Vietnam to get slaughtered and needed another "successful" war our home turf to take away the attention.
And the best part is it was done by possibly the smartest man to ever gain the presidency (<-- sarcasm) Mr Richard Nixon. A man who couldn't look a few decades back and realize the catastrophe that was Prohibition, which is EXACTLY what the "War on Drugs" is today. Drugs are more readily available at 1/100th of the cost, purer, and much more addictive.
The fact remains, the VAST majority of people who don't smoke crack now NEVER WILL. Why don't we take this hundreds of millions of dollars and throw them into educating kids properly about drugs, not this "this is your brain on drugs" bullsh*t that made me laugh when I was 10. They're so afraid to just bring a Junkie in rehab into a school and let HIM tell the kids how horrible it is and how he's losing his teeth and his family won't speak to him. Put those tax dollars into rehabbing people with these problems, giving them REAL help. It would be much cheaper to throw every junkie in the US on a Methadone program than to continue to fuel the war on drugs.
The only way we will ever advance as a society is through education and learning from past mistakes. If we properly educate our youth about these drugs (which we most certainly don't now) then we will have no drug epidemic. There will always be people who f*ck themselves up, but through education people will do it less. As a society we have to fix leaks. I don't think enforcing a police state does that. We waste so much money on War and enforcing useless laws while we should be truly educating mankind to not make these mistakes.
I'm going to stop now. Ahh Presidents day, No school. Immediate Karma for anyone who read the entire thing. If you have a contrasting view to mine Id love to hear. No vicious words or childish garbage.
"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana "Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced." - Albert Einstein
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." - Thomas Jefferson
Post by roolacksreality on Feb 19, 2007 20:15:00 GMT -5
From Wakarusa. com
What's Different in 2007? Shortly following the 2006 festival, we solicited your feedback and suggestions regarding improvements to all areas of the event. Our inbox was literally flooded with responses, both positive and negative, and we read every item submitted. We’ve tried to implement as many improvements as possible during our 2007 planning efforts, so, without further ado; here are some of the improvements you’ll see this year:
Kinder, gentler and more respectful security. More and better vending options in the campgrounds. A relaxed stance on the glass container policy. Glass containers will be allowed, so please be respectful and recycle all undesired glass. Improved first aid and event information stations throughout the campgrounds. More traffic lanes to drastically reduce or eliminate congestion upon your arrival. Greater emphasis on sustainability. The 2007 program includes a standalone, sustainability village for education on all things “green”. Implementation of our “St. Bernard” program - a specially trained, highly visible, roaming customer service representatives with direct contact to event promoters, medical personnel and law enforcement. These are folks that can address your questions, concerns and complaints. Many more improvements to the VIP program. This list represents the major improvements anticipated in 2007; however, our eyes and ears are always open to more suggestions. Please contact us at suggestions@wakarusa.com with additional items.
Thanks, as always, for your support and we hope you enjoy the show!
Wakarusa
It makes me mad that they barely touch on the fact that sooo many people got shafted by security last year. But, alas, they can't do too much. It isn't their land.
Post by unplugdacusticaz on Feb 19, 2007 20:31:56 GMT -5
I don't understand why the organization that does wakarusa doesn't find some big piece of land somewhere around there, and buy it. In the long run, wouldn't that be the smarter and more profitable decision?
I've been always thinking that the middle of Nebraska is a perfect place for a festival because it's right in the middle of the U.S. and it's just fields as far as the eye can see. The weather is mildly hot, but not as hot as TN, and the chances of it raining are slim. I know that'll never happen and most of you would be like..."WHy the hell would they have a festival in central nebraska??" But I think it's ideal.
i agree with all the drug law and freedom stuff. well put. i wish carter would have handled the war on drugs. he had the right idea.
unplugdacusticaz said:
What's up with Wakarusa having a shakedown street???
all fests have shakedown. its just the name given to the area where the vendors are set up on a main path. im sure wkaks will be pretty chill this year. all good has the craziest shakedown ive ever seen. good times!!
and they def neeed to move waka. im betting they have a contract witht he state park and will be out of there asap. noo facts to back it up. just what i think they will do if they want to save the fest. if this year comes close to last year they wont have a choice but to move it or shut it down
they won't do a thing with the festival's location if a lot of people go again this year. all these companies that put on these festivals are the same in that they have one, single goal above any kind of idealistic reasons they may state or people may want to believe: to make money. you want them to change how they're doing things? you want to speak to them in a language they'll understand? then hit em where it hurts: on their bottom line. no matter how good/bad a lineup is, no matter how convenient the dates of the festival are, by supporting them with your dollars, you're essentially saying 'we may have been unhappy last year, but we're not willing to do anything to force you to change'. i'm not buying the email they sent out, it reeks of "damage control" to me.
Maybe I'll throw myself to the dogs, but my back's not to the wall Maybe I'll lay some bricks for the man, but the days just aren't that long So if I settle back and chill will I see far enough to feel the angel's dream? I thought it was the Story of the World!
Still hard pressed to think people got shafted for doing and or dealing drugs in public. Especially dealing.........sorry if this riles anybody up.......
Post by oatmealschnappz on Feb 20, 2007 16:06:59 GMT -5
xiphoid420 said:
they won't do a thing with the festival's location if a lot of people go again this year. all these companies that put on these festivals are the same in that they have one, single goal above any kind of idealistic reasons they may state or people may want to believe: to make money. you want them to change how they're doing things? you want to speak to them in a language they'll understand? then hit em where it hurts: on their bottom line. no matter how good/bad a lineup is, no matter how convenient the dates of the festival are, by supporting them with your dollars, you're essentially saying 'we may have been unhappy last year, but we're not willing to do anything to force you to change'. i'm not buying the email they sent out, it reeks of "damage control" to me.
Well said! I won't return until they get their sh*t together!
Post by roolacksreality on Feb 20, 2007 17:25:34 GMT -5
oatmealschnappz said:
xiphoid420 said:
they won't do a thing with the festival's location if a lot of people go again this year. all these companies that put on these festivals are the same in that they have one, single goal above any kind of idealistic reasons they may state or people may want to believe: to make money. you want them to change how they're doing things? you want to speak to them in a language they'll understand? then hit em where it hurts: on their bottom line. no matter how good/bad a lineup is, no matter how convenient the dates of the festival are, by supporting them with your dollars, you're essentially saying 'we may have been unhappy last year, but we're not willing to do anything to force you to change'. i'm not buying the email they sent out, it reeks of "damage control" to me.
Well said! I won't return until they get their sh*t together!
I gotta third this one. I can't imagine being at a festival with a sketchy feel to the campsites, and I for one don't wanna experience it.
Post by I Can't Wait! on Feb 20, 2007 21:44:53 GMT -5
You guys are right on target, if they (promoters) keep making money, nothing will change. The promoters stated that they knew of no specific measures... well at least warn your valued custi's (cause that's what we all are in the end is customers) that you have been informed of increased presence and for the sake of your freedom and the future of the festival please, please use your head.
I've been to many events where that has been the plea from the promoters, bands, etc. Prime example, Oregon Country Fair, used to be a crazy drug free for all. Now they are very very clear on what the expectations are for you as patron, because they do care about their patrons and they don't want the event ruined by the Feds. They were threatened with land seizure and the end of an event legacy dating back to the 60's.
Northwest String Summit, another event where the site (Hornings Hideout) was pretty much shut down due to complaints from the county, Bob Horning and festival hosts Yonder Mountain String Band made it VERY clear that there would be increased scrutiny and searches upon entering the property. Yonder even at several points throughout the weekend urged "discretion" right from the stage.
My point is Shame on the promoters of Wakarusa for not warning their valued customers.. maybe they were afraid it would hurt ticket sales, and their bottom line.
The other issue is yeah, breaking the law can lead to an unfortunate end. But to use tactics like unannounced video surveilence is a sorry excuse for trying to deter drug activity. The park manager stated "Had there not been a strong move this year by law enforcement to control the situation, Schecher said, the state would not have allowed the festival to continue.
“This is a crowd that has a high expectation of privacy and freedom, and I respect that, within limits,” Schecher said. “I struggled with this a little bit, but I felt like we were doing it for the right reasons. If it was meant to be Big Brother and spying on people, I wouldn’t have done it.”
Bull S#!T If you would have made it known that these tactics were going to be in place it would have deterred some of the drug dealing, creating the cleaner scene they say they were looking for, and thus leaving anyone who still got busted nobody to blame but themselves.
Sure, you can say that why warn them? The law states that it is illegal. It just proves what everyone here is saying it's all about the dollar bills going into the government agencies, if you warn the people who might feel (even falsely) that they are going to a place where they can cut loose a little, there will be less busts and less money going into the coffers, thus no warnings.
Shouldn't be too much longer before meth overruns the rest of the country like it has in the west, requiring the police to re-evaluate how they spend their precious resources. Finally they'll have to go after a drug that actually does harm the people who use it.
Post by imsquare17 on Feb 21, 2007 21:56:46 GMT -5
The thing that I have a problem with is that the surveilence was not made publicly known. If they really only wanted to discourage drug dealing at the festival, they could have had made an announcement proir to the festival and posted notices. That would have stopped at least some of the selling without having to arrest as many people. I feel that I have a right to know when I'm on camera, the way they did things just seems underhanded.
It just pisses me off when people get mad after they get busted with pot. Until it is legal (crossing fingers) no one should be suprised.
I don't think people get mad or are surprised because they got busted. I think they are mad that it is illegal in the first place and how rediculous and useless it is for our law enforcment to repeatedly fill our jails with pot smokers. If I were put into this situation I sure as hell wouldn't be surprised...happens every day...but I would have even more resentment and anger towards the way the government deals with drug policies and how much money they spend on it than I already do.
You don't see things looking good in the future for people who "smoke". Well thats the sad part...maybe if more and more people stand up against it than just accept it that future we are all hoping for will come a lot quicker.
Last Edit: Feb 22, 2007 1:14:32 GMT -5 by kimmy417 - Back to Top
Post by melikecheese on Feb 22, 2007 11:38:38 GMT -5
I would not go to this festival just because i would always feel nervous, even if I wasn't buying anything illegal. If Bonnaroo did this I would think twice about going and really consider the lineup. There is a sense of freedom at Roo that I really love, I would not feel the same with camera spying on me.
Post by stuckinutero on Feb 22, 2007 15:16:13 GMT -5
Hi. Im Dave. I was born and raised in America, a free country. I've been taugt my whole life that in a free country you have ownership and responsibility over your body and state of mind. My constitution allows me these rights.
You will never see me hiding under the guise of some Medical MJ sh*t. This is the basis for my stance on banned substances and acts. I dont agree with anyone prostituting themselves or people who decide to use smack/crack/pcp/etc. The bottom line remains that it is your right in a free country to do those things.
This applies to many things involved in todays chess game of politics and laws. People tend to forget things very quickly. You see people cry out about Gun Control these days. One of the most insane arguments fathomable. Our founding fathers gave us this right because they had just ended an extremely bloody and tedious war for their freedom. They also knew that the time might one day come again where Americas people would have to arm themselves and take action against their government.
The idea that gun control will keep guns out of the hands of criminals is insane. Making laws against guns is stupid. Criminals break the law, thats what they do. Why would new laws stop them? The only kind of gun control we should exhibit is the kind where we stop giving arms to foreign countries to kill our own soldiers at future dates. We've been selling Iran F1 parts for a while now because theyre the only country that still flies them, but why should that stop us from giving extra aeriel power to a nation that wants to build nukes. I don't know, maybe the same reason why we shouldnt have sold the Iraqis all those fully automatic weapons a decade ago that are now slaughtering our young.
Im rambling now. The only fashion in which Im closed minded pertains to the thought processes of people who think like this. Seems like alot of folks want a plastic world. Maybe they dont feel responsible enough to handle a world with bumpers, but I do, and I also think the sooner the better. The earlier we give man these rights the sooner he will adapt to them.
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
i agree with what you're saying almost in its entirety, but if you're looking for answers to why things are this way...ever stop to think about how much money is being made by those MAKING the plastic?
there's a hell of a lot of truth to the saying 'money is the root of all evil'. we, especially in America, are creating all our own problems in our constant quest for economic growth and for what many organizations would have us believe is the secret to life: MORE
Maybe I'll throw myself to the dogs, but my back's not to the wall Maybe I'll lay some bricks for the man, but the days just aren't that long So if I settle back and chill will I see far enough to feel the angel's dream? I thought it was the Story of the World!
Post by stuckinutero on Feb 22, 2007 17:40:23 GMT -5
xiphoid420 said:
stuckinutero said:
Seems like alot of folks want a plastic world. .
i agree with what you're saying almost in its entirety, but if you're looking for answers to why things are this way...ever stop to think about how much money is being made by those MAKING the plastic?
there's a hell of a lot of truth to the saying 'money is the root of all evil'. we, especially in America, are creating all our own problems in our constant quest for economic growth and for what many organizations would have us believe is the secret to life: MORE
Well, now we're jump starting a really intersting topic. The structure of nations and world politics. Right now we live in whats referred to as a unipolar system with 1 power pole (USA). This started in 1991 at the end of the cold war. Amongst a few others, the other major players are IGOs (International Governmental Org.s/UN, EU, etc). This is the world as we know it today. Many political scientists believe that our political structure in the next 50 years might change drastically to an area that we've never dealt with. Walmart as a buisness tops the entire economy of over 70 of the worlds roughly 200 Nations. MNCs (Multinational Corporations) know no allegiance except to that of the dollar. Many political scientists believe that we will be in a world where Nations are no longer the major players, but MNCs and Terrorists. Remember The Holy Roman Empire? Hooray for times of massive religous scrutiny and wars all over again. Jihad, Jihad!!!
I just gotta post this again. It really is the perfect quote for anything pertaining to politics at this point. Once in a blue moon do we get a truely progressive mind in this government. We need one now. If Mr Gore decided to run again, he can sit on my shoulders.
"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
We need people who are progressive and believe in Globalization. We need idealists running this country. We have a unified Europe, a boiling pot in the middle east, and a very large still proud russian nation. I always thought it was a great idea to sit here and mind our own buisness. Its not. We need to give up pieces of our sovereignty to advance as a whole. We cannot make world decisions by ourselves.
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
damnit everytime i read this thread i know i shouldnt support this. but then see the lineup and its saying you have to go!!!! but i think im gonna have to not go. i dont want my money going to kansas cops. or a festival promoter that would do that to its fans and not make a venue change. if i read that it was all flowers and hugs this year im sure i will kick myself in the ass. but at least i will not be paying someone to harrass me. damn that is a crazy good lineup though. allright im going. wait no im not. damnit!! seriously im out. unless they buy the place from the state.
gathering of the vibes is on public property this year. hope it dosent turn into a fiasco like waka did. but they have had it at this spot a few years ago and noone has had a bad thing to say about the security situation whenit was there. so i have hope!! i think wakarusa should move to the roo farm next year. or to marvins mountain top wehre all good is. or even legend valley. anywhere but kansas will get me to go!
We need to give up pieces of our sovereignty to advance as a whole. We cannot make world decisions by ourselves.
you are so right on i wish i could give more than 1 karma an hour
anyone who hasn't seen it, i highly recommend watching a documentary calld "The Corporation". now i'm not anti-business, but the system is definitely broken if those with the money (business) dictate how the government runs, instead of vice versa.
anyway, maybe we should start a new thread to BS on this for a bit...i'll return this one to the Waka theme now ;D
Maybe I'll throw myself to the dogs, but my back's not to the wall Maybe I'll lay some bricks for the man, but the days just aren't that long So if I settle back and chill will I see far enough to feel the angel's dream? I thought it was the Story of the World!