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I don't thinks it's so much that Bill is overrated
I think it is. What did he actually get done? I speak of positive things, of course.
NAFTA - and his free-trade stance in general - is a bad thing. Loss of manufacturing jobs at home? Complaints about hazardous products coming out of China? Clinton free-trade policies for you. Sure, the economy was good... but as I said, he took more of the laissez-faire hands-off approach. If you're going to take that stance, you can't take credit for it.
Speaking of China... how about his administration's not tying China's Most Favored Nation trade status to human rights issues? Not only because of what I mentioned above, but because of the Tibetan crackdown we saw recently.
Health care reform? Let's face it, Hillary screwed that one up. There was plenty of opportunity to get something passed. But Bill appointed her to head a task force that didn't bother seeking ideas/opinions from legislators/bureaucreats/etc. Nobody was going to support it if they didn't have input. That didn't even have a chance because Hillary didn't even try to get others involved. She says she'll solve that problem, but the fact is - she's part of it.
He had the opportunity to get Osama bin Laden in U.S. custody and declined.
We all know "don't ask, don't tell" was/is a load of crap.
Gridlock? Government shutdown? His 1993 budget bill pretty much allowed Gingrich to have his Republican Revolution. Pretty much every political science textbook out there tells the tale of poor Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky (who was in tears as she cast the deciding vote in favor of it) as an example of how one vote can cost a legislator their job and turn a legislature to the other party.
Let's not forget that the guy was the second President to ever face impeachment, and got stripped of his law license.
I could go on, but I think I've said enough.
I think the best thing he did was the crime bill, and even that was rather Republican...
Seriously, I don't see why people still think he was so great.
Post by purplefuzzystuff on Apr 22, 2008 13:41:38 GMT -5
Bloody Hell...I was responding to Danbirds Hillary comment about her fighting for America and what's right
^^^ See, and to me that just sounds like desperation to cover up the fact that she has been taken over by the dark side...
This is going to sound ridiculous I am aware but I always feel pretty intuitive about people...and I don't generally get a 'sunshine and rainbows' kind of vibe from politicians but Hillary just irks me in all kinds of wrong ways, worse than Bush even....and that is saying something.....I think it's because she is smart, I know she is smart, and I know she has the ability to use that intelligence to manipulate people
On top of everything Hillary claiming the pledged delegates can and should vote however they like really angers me. The Democrats have argued since 2000 that voters votes must count. Now, when it benefits her, she says "Screw what the voters say. Vote for me."
I actually think she would be a fairly good President (way too corporate for me but so much better than McCain, who's moved so far right, I can't even recognize the dude.) but she is sooo power hungry. I will do whatever I can to see to it she does not get the nomination.
I'm sure that really scares her.
Well said. Just one of the many reasons I get butt cringe at the thought of the Clintons in the White House again!
Not that I'm in love with Obama either. My philosophy: If anyone makes it to that level of government THEY ARE CORRUPT or they wouldn't make it that far.
While I'm slacking work and spewing forth my political opinions I will state for the record:
Obama is not BLACK. At most he can only claim half. Hilary had her chance in the White House. Monica blew it for her. (sorry, lol, I couldn't resist). McCain is an embarassing excuse for a Republican candidate. If I were Republican I would be donning my donkey suit right now.
I am not prejudiced - all politicians disgust me equally.
Of the choices as they stand today I would cast for Obama. McCain is not even worth my time and Hilary lost any chance with me the day Bill said, "I did not have sex with that woman." Honestly, if he'd just said, " Yeah, I f*cked her, keep your politics out of my pants!", I would have been like - OK, Bill, if I was married to Hilary I would've been getting bl*wjobs from Monica, too. But the fact that he lied when the proof was on the dress just showed me his lack of testicles.
Post by tammy4peace on Apr 22, 2008 13:59:40 GMT -5
"Also, the fact that there was something on that dress is proof he DID have testicles."
kdogg
My apologies to the slam on the guy's man parts. Point taken. He probably has a nice beans and wiener package considering the amount of beaver time he got even before he was in a political office. Actually, I'd probably f*ck him, or at least consider it. I just wouldn't vote for him or his wife.
I'm not defending him. Just making light because there was an opportunity to make a crass joke.
I'm sure somewhere there exists a description of his beans & frank in some court documents. Maybe we can figure out if it's more than "probably" nice...
I don't thinks it's so much that Bill is overrated
I think it is. What did he actually get done? I speak of positive things, of course.
NAFTA - and his free-trade stance in general - is a bad thing. Loss of manufacturing jobs at home? Complaints about hazardous products coming out of China? Clinton free-trade policies for you. Sure, the economy was good... but as I said, he took more of the laissez-faire hands-off approach. If you're going to take that stance, you can't take credit for it.
Speaking of China... how about his administration's not tying China's Most Favored Nation trade status to human rights issues? Not only because of what I mentioned above, but because of the Tibetan crackdown we saw recently.
Health care reform? Let's face it, Hillary screwed that one up. There was plenty of opportunity to get something passed. But Bill appointed her to head a task force that didn't bother seeking ideas/opinions from legislators/bureaucreats/etc. Nobody was going to support it if they didn't have input. That didn't even have a chance because Hillary didn't even try to get others involved. She says she'll solve that problem, but the fact is - she's part of it.
He had the opportunity to get Osama bin Laden in U.S. custody and declined.
We all know "don't ask, don't tell" was/is a load of crap.
Gridlock? Government shutdown? His 1993 budget bill pretty much allowed Gingrich to have his Republican Revolution. Pretty much every political science textbook out there tells the tale of poor Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky (who was in tears as she cast the deciding vote in favor of it) as an example of how one vote can cost a legislator their job and turn a legislature to the other party.
Let's not forget that the guy was the second President to ever face impeachment, and got stripped of his law license.
I could go on, but I think I've said enough.
I think the best thing he did was the crime bill, and even that was rather Republican...
Seriously, I don't see why people still think he was so great.
Ahhh! Miscommunication! I'm not defending the things that happened, positive or negative, while he was in office....because it should completely inconsequential....you made the statement that Bill is overrated and rather than saying "it's not so much he is overatted" I should have said "That's not the point" it shouldn't matter whether he was terrible or great....Do you see what I am saying....I just worded that poorly.....Because I am not the person to defend Clinton, I just feel strongly against the interchangable use of his experience as hers
I might have went a bit overboard, but I think Clinton's alleged greatness is a popular misconception that needs to be addressed wherever it rears its ugly head.
If Hillary supporters DO want to equate Hillary's experience with Bill's, they'd better be prepared to defend Bill's record.
I should really ease up, in case we haven't already scared any Hillary supporters out there into silence...
Post by purplefuzzystuff on Apr 22, 2008 14:22:33 GMT -5
^^ Quite possibly because I am most definitely not a Clinton supporter and you guys have almost successfully run me away lol.....I would be petrified to come in here and voice opposition.....And that is generally not something I steer away from lol
And I am really interested to hear any real reasons people would support Hilary
I'm not defending him. Just making light because there was an opportunity to make a crass joke.
I'm sure somewhere there exists a description of his beans & frank in some court documents. Maybe we can figure out if it's more than "probably" nice...
Comment taken as such. And appreciated. Any missed opportunity for humor, no matter how sarcastic, is shameful.
Now for the important stuff: do you think those descriptions might come with pics?? I'm just sayin'....if I'm going to discuss the man's twig and berries publicly I should at least know what they look like........all in the name of political science, of course.
Best I could find, from a Paula Jones affidavit: A sworn affidavit by Ms. Jones, as reported in the Washington Times (10/15/97), describes the "distinguishing characteristic" of Bill Clinton's penis as "a distinctly angled bend visible when the penis is erect."
Best I could find, from a Paula Jones affidavit: A sworn affidavit by Ms. Jones, as reported in the Washington Times (10/15/97), describes the "distinguishing characteristic" of Bill Clinton's penis as "a distinctly angled bend visible when the penis is erect."
America may be ready for a woman president but just not Hillary ! the media seems to steer away from any of the old contoversys and cover-ups from her days as 1st lady. 2 words = VINCE FOSTER !
America may be ready for a woman president but just not Hillary ! the media seems to steer away from any of the old contoversys and cover-ups from her days as 1st lady. 2 words = VINCE FOSTER !
I agree. But don't get me started about the media or I'll never finish my work in time to go home today!
lol is that a response to why people might support Clinton?
I think it would be doing 'girl power' an injustice to use Clinton as the poster girl. ...not that I am attacking Clintons feminine qualities or anything.....but I would no sooner vote for Clinton because she is female as I would Obama cause he is black and I think anyone who votes for either of those candidates based on those reasons alone deserves to be shaken....just grabbed by the shoulders and shaken.....
A lot of her supporters back her simply because she has a vagina, (presumably anyways.) It may sound a little sexist, but its the truth. Especially with the older female demographics.
I like the analogy of Deanna Favre taking over as QB for the Packers. She watched her husband do it for so long that she thinks she has a firm enough grasp on zone blitzes and the cover 2 defense that she could do just as good a job.
I think clinton did some good things pragmatically. There were rising wages (see below), increased revenues and a balanced budget. He was much better in real tangible ways than any President in years.
That being said, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could spit. And he sold out the economy long term to corporate interests. But that's the obvious way to the reigns of power today. He made me really question whether I'd like a good President who's a bad person or a bad President who's a good person. I'll take the good President. We do hire them to do a job first and foremost.
I feel Hillary would be roughly the same type of President. Obama has the opportunity to be both a good President and good person. I'm willing to take that chance.
Warning: Numbers geek alert!
Clinton Household incomes (adjusted for inflation from Census Bureau, 1993-2001) lowest 20% - $17,817 -$20,465 (+14.9%) 2nd 20% _ $33,909 - $37,940 - $37,774 (+11.8%) 3rd 20% _ $53,302 - $60,359 (+13.2) 4th 20% _ $82,853 - $95,094 (+14.8%) Top 20% _ $143,775 - $171,395 (+19.2)
Bush Household incomes (adjusted for inflation from Census Bureau, 2001-2006) lowest 20% - $20,465 - $20,035 (-2.1%) 2nd 20% _ $37,940 - $37,774 (-0.5%) 3rd 20% _ $60,359 - $60,000 (-0.6%) 4th 20% _ $95,094 - $97,032 (+2.0%) Top 20% _ $171,395 - $174032 (+1.5)
Post by purplefuzzystuff on Apr 22, 2008 15:51:57 GMT -5
I'm not debating the fact that a lot of people are voting for Clinton because she has a vagina I am simply saying I would like to shake those people...you know, just violently shake them in hopes that that part of their brain might fall out or something...
And it is sexist, people voting for her because she is a woman is identical to people voting against because she is woman....but you're right Al, it is the truth and there isn't anything that can be done short of Hillary denying the fact that she has lady parts that can change the minds of her followers...
I like the analogy of Deanna Favre taking over as QB for the Packers. She watched her husband do it for so long that she thinks she has a firm enough grasp on zone blitzes and the cover 2 defense that she could do just as good a job.
Post by generalstore on Apr 22, 2008 19:21:55 GMT -5
Exit polls say it's too close to call, which means Obama has won the nomination, since Clinton needed to win by a big margin (plus sweep every other remaining state) for the math to work.
Of course she will still probably win the state, which will keep her going for a few more months.
Hillary will stay in no matter what unless Obama wins decisively (not likely.) I think they won't call PA until at least a few precincts report (0% now)
The demographics really favor Hillary. Only 10% of PA voters were below 30 years old and 38% were 60+. And they were 58% female.
...not that I am attacking Clintons feminine qualities or anything.....but I would no sooner vote for Clinton because she is female as I would Obama cause he is black and I think anyone who votes for either of those candidates based on those reasons alone deserves to be shaken....just grabbed by the shoulders and shaken.....
