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-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
well hell, as long as someone else picks up the tab, what is another 12+ million people
Again dude, what tab? The plan does not get more expensive the more people that are on it? The only "tab" will be employers having to provide coverage for their now "legal" workers? More people paying into a system actually makes it more efficient. If you dont understand this basic fact about insurance I am not sure you even need to be part of the debate.
Last Edit: Nov 15, 2009 12:35:54 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
i wish i could have the optimism that you two have. we shall see what happens. and yes, jess, you are correct in saying that more people paying into a system makes it more efficient. however, i just see it in the sense that many will not find jobs, therefore, they will be forced to get on the gov't plan. no job, no paying into healthcare.
i wish i could have the optimism that you two have. we shall see what happens. and yes, jess, you are correct in saying that more people paying into a system makes it more efficient. however, i just see it in the sense that many will not find jobs, therefore, they will be forced to get on the gov't plan. no job, no paying into healthcare.
oh, and i happen to like my imagination.
Most have jobs this is the point I made in my first reply to you. When you make minimum wage,and live outside the system, you HAVE to work or you might as well go home.
Of course it is 2-3 years old at least. The screener on the bottom talked about gas at a record high of 3.22. So I would place this somewhere in 07 when bush was still in power. For instance this was the plan favored by McCain.
Most have jobs this is the point I made in my first reply to you.
I think this is a very generalized statement. I agree with you for the most part on this debate and am certainly pro-obama. But how do we know that most illegals have jobs? Are there statistics? And to that point....how many of those are steady jobs? I know, from my personal standpoint, the area where I live there are a lot of illegal immigrants who work, but it's mostly odd jobs for a day or two.....or landscaping (not trying to be racist......it's literally what I see around my neighborhood). We're not talking about 9-5 jobs.
Most have jobs this is the point I made in my first reply to you.
I think this is a very generalized statement. I agree with you for the most part on this debate and am certainly pro-obama. But how do we know that most illegals have jobs? Are there statistics? And to that point....how many of those are steady jobs? I know, from my personal standpoint, the area where I live there are a lot of illegal immigrants who work, but it's mostly odd jobs for a day or two.....or landscaping (not trying to be racist......it's literally what I see around my neighborhood). We're not talking about 9-5 jobs.
I was quoting a bureau of labor statistic that basically said the unemployment rate for illegals was estimated as about half that of the rest of the country. I will look the article up again and post a link to it.
Isn't that kind of the point of illegal immigrants? To work here and send money home? If they're not working here, then why be here? So I can see why their unemployment would be lower because if they can't find work then they'd just go back. And if they're is no work to be had, less illegals will come over. Maybe that's a simplified/naive viewpoint but it makes sense to me.
Better living conditions, welfare, other family here, place to stay. Why were so many immigrants staying here when they came over from Europe years ago? Not all of them had jobs but it was better than where they came from.
Illegal immigrants don't show up "just for work". People come here for all sorts of reasons....and i'd assume one of the main reasons is a chance at a better life. People escape Cuba on life rafts and inner tubes and risk their lives so they can try and live in America. They aren't looking for jobs necessarily.....they are looking for a good place to live.
I was quoting a bureau of labor statistic that basically said the unemployment rate for illegals was estimated as about half that of the rest of the country. I will look the article up again and post a link to it.
Cool....that's all I was wondering. Because I honestly had no idea and I get kinda tired of reading general statements about things on the internet cuz I can never tell if the person is speaking with info to back it up or just stating an opinion.
Better living conditions, welfare, other family here, place to stay. Why were so many immigrants staying here when they came over from Europe years ago? Not all of them had jobs but it was better than where they came from.
Illegal immigrants don't show up "just for work". People come here for all sorts of reasons....and i'd assume one of the main reasons is a chance at a better life. People escape Cuba on life rafts and inner tubes and risk their lives so they can try and live in America. They aren't looking for jobs necessarily.....they are looking for a good place to live.
I understand that. I realize that many, if not all immigrants to the US come here "for a better life." My point was that as jobs dry up, the flow of illegal immigrants will lessen as well. Or so one would think.
Yeah there is not really a "better" life here if you cannot find a job. Unless you are leaving an intolerable situation in which case refugee laws will probably help take care of you.
Yeah there is not really a "better" life here if you cannot find a job.
Sure there is. Freedom of Speech comes to mind. Living in an area where you're not worried about being killed when you walk out of your house is something to look forward to as well.
It seems to me like you guys are too focused on the "immigrants come here to work" thing when there's really tons of other reasons people try to come to America. Employment is not the only reason people should (and do) want to come to America.
Of course it is 2-3 years old at least. The screener on the bottom talked about gas at a record high of 3.22. So I would place this somewhere in 07 when bush was still in power. For instance this was the plan favored by McCain.
Looking into it - I did find that it is from 5/22/2007 - I wasn't paying attention
What is conservatives' deal with throwing a hissy fit every time Obama performs some cultural custom? What's the big deal about bowing? It's humility, not concession.
I was impressed that Obama went to Dover International to honor the deceased soldiers who were being returned home.
Don't think I ever saw W or smurf doing that.
Outside photography was forbidden at these events during the previous administration. This policy changed when Obama took office. Outside photographers are now allowed in to these events if requested by a family member and cleared.
On a similar note: Obama visited Arlington National Cemetery's section for Iraq & Afghanistan war dead this Veteran's Day. W never went once.
Hmmm...I haven't looked into W's history of visiting cemeteries or deceased soldiers, but after the cowardly act of terrorism at Ft. Hood, George and Laura were there with no media way before Obama showed up. I think it's ridiculous that anyone would try to paint Bush as someone who doesn't care about the troops.
I will actually somewhat agree with LelieBomb on this one. W and Laura were at Ft. Hood the next day. Granted, they live in TX and both have open schedules. But I wouldn't say that W doesn't care about the troops.
However, I don't think Ft. Hood was an act of terrorism. I don't know what I would call it, but it's not like this guy was a one man terror cell. I just think people throw around 'terrorism' a little too loosely these days.
I don't think you need to be a member of a group or cell to be a terrorist. There is evidence that this was an act of religiously motivated anti-Ameicanism. I don't think the term terrorism is used too loosely. That man absolutely terrorized the victims at Ft. Hood. I think people are afraid to call it what it is for fear of offending someone or some group.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Nov 17, 2009 9:43:11 GMT -5
Lelie, i'd like to see the evidence that it was an act of religiously motivated anti-americanism. I was under the impression that a lot of this stemmed from the fact that he wanted to be discharged from the military because of a lot of insults and negative comments about his ethnicity since the september 11th attacks, which made him go a lil crazy. But i'm not 100%.
And before thinking about it, I wouldn't have considered him a terrorist in the usual sense of the word......but I guess if the unabomber and timothy mcveigh were considered terrorists then so is this guy. whatever you want to call him.........he committed a horrible act and should be dealt with.
By that rationale, Columbine was a terrorist act, and essentially any person who kills or harms another person is a terrorist. If you rob a liquor store, you're a terrorist. Because after all, you terrorized the clerk. Where do we draw a line between criminal and terrorist?
By that rationale, Columbine was a terrorist act, and essentially any person who kills or harms another person is a terrorist. If you rob a liquor store, you're a terrorist. Because after all, you terrorized the clerk. Where do we draw a line between criminal and terrorist?
Actually I could be wrong calling him a terrorist. But keep in mind I didn't say "anyone who terrorizes is a terrorist". That's how you interpreted it. Nobody in their right mind would consider a person who only robbed a liquor store a terrorist. Here is dictionary.com's definition of terrorism
n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
So I guess you have to decide if the columbine kids or this guy were trying to intimidate society or government by using force or violence. McVeigh and Unabomber fit into that definition but i'm not sure if the Fort Hood killer or Columbine kids would count as it. I don't know enough about either situation to know their motivations or goals.
itrain, I was referring more towards Lelie's post rather than your own. She said "That man absolutely terrorized the victims at Ft. Hood." and I was just pointing out that simply terrorizing people doesn't make you a terrorist in the truest sense of the word and that all too often the word terrorist gets tossed around. Remember Obama's "terrorist fist jab?"
itrain, I was referring more towards Lelie's post rather than your own. She said "That man absolutely terrorized the victims at Ft. Hood." and I was just pointing out that simply terrorizing people doesn't make you a terrorist in the truest sense of the word and that all too often the word terrorist gets tossed around. Remember Obama's "terrorist fist jab?"
ahhhh i see. my stupid brain always assumes that a person who posts under mine is responding to me. that's gotten me into trouble on forums because of miscommunication. my bad.
I would say he qualifies under the Lone Wolf genre of terrorism. It is certainly not like he was working for Al Quaeda or anything, sounds to me like a combination of a mental breakdown, mixed with religious zealotry to me.
Hmmm...I haven't looked into W's history of visiting cemeteries or deceased soldiers, but after the cowardly act of terrorism at Ft. Hood, George and Laura were there with no media way before Obama showed up. I think it's ridiculous that anyone would try to paint Bush as someone who doesn't care about the troops.
You know....I'd give you W. He probably did/does care. BUT, I will never give you D.I.C.K. Cheney.
itrain, I was referring more towards Lelie's post rather than your own. She said "That man absolutely terrorized the victims at Ft. Hood." and I was just pointing out that simply terrorizing people doesn't make you a terrorist in the truest sense of the word and that all too often the word terrorist gets tossed around. Remember Obama's "terrorist fist jab?"
ahhhh i see. my stupid brain always assumes that a person who posts under mine is responding to me. that's gotten me into trouble on forums because of miscommunication. my bad.