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Six years. 4,577 coalition deaths; 4,259 of them American. 91,131 - 99,510 civilian deaths.
I ran into an old high school friend of mine at a show back in 05. He told me he was back on leave; he's the only guy I know who's been there and back and said anything about it. He definitely didn't want to discuss it, so our conversation on the subject was brief. He brought up that he was home on leave, I asked how things were going. Even four years later, I still remember it word for word. "It sucks. It sucks worse than you can imagine." And that was all he was willing to say about that.
Post by neighborhooodcreep on Mar 20, 2009 1:42:24 GMT -5
My brother died there and he always said if he died there he would die happy knowing he made a difference to help make schools, give women rights, give people rights, fight terrorism and help create a democracy to give the people of the next generations a better future
Last Edit: Mar 20, 2009 2:06:14 GMT -5 by neighborhooodcreep - Back to Top
My buddy is going over there with the Army Reserves shortly. Apparently his group is supposed to be one of the last ones going over. They'll prob be one of the last to leave too
Post by ☮ superbek ☮ on Mar 20, 2009 4:00:12 GMT -5
My buddy Bill died in Iraq on 12/27/07, it was he second tour and he was three weeks away from coming home for good.
I remember when he cam back after his first tour and we stayed up all night George Jung style... watching the sun coming up, he stared in the distance. When I asked him what it was like, all he could say is "I'm not going to tell you because you really don't want to know." I could see the horror in his eyes and that was the last tome I saw him alive.
Post by cheeky resurrection on Mar 20, 2009 4:23:57 GMT -5
^ I'm so sorry for your loss.
A very close friend of mine was one of the first deployed and came back in '06. One of the nicest guys you'd have ever met... very outgoing, super caring, always wanting to be around people, really hard worker, always on time, organized, ect ect. Since his return, he hasn't held a job for more than a few weeks, stays either wasted or fucked up on pharmies constantly, doesn't leave his house, doesn't want company often... 12 out 15 of his unit were all given honorary discharges upon their last psychiatric evaluation.
Lost a second cousin from North Georgia in '05 to an RPG. His unit was doing good work. We collected thousands of beenie babies that the unit distributed to Iraqi kids, the pictures are priceless. I was really bitter for a while, now just hope these fine young men and women weren't sacrificed for nothing.
This still upsets me to this day, it's not necessarily the military, but the asshats on top of the food chain.
My brother died there and he always said if he died there he would die happy knowing he made a difference to help make schools, give women rights, give people rights, fight terrorism and help create a democracy to give the people of the next generations a better future
its unfortunate that many people seem to forget this...all they know is that its "bush's war" (anything done by bush has to be bad, right?), and that no wmd's were found...there has been plenty of good, and continues to be plenty of good that happens there
Many say you can't put a price tag on freedom, but in this case you can.
Over $1 trillion spent (at least another $1 trillion more), of which how much went to Halliburton (who ran that before he became VP?), almost 5,000 Americans and at least 150,000 Iraqies. No WMD (wasn't that the whole point? Colin Powell took the bait), no Mission Accomplished, Terrorists in Iraq now, weren't before, infrastructure worse than before, Iraqi people admired America before, now they hate us.
Good is happening in very small increments, while the price tag and body bags pile up!
sure war sux...it costs money and lives...but tell the women and children who now have a future that they never could have had that progress is being made in small amounts...tell the people that can vote for their leaders that progress is slow...tell the people who would have voted against saddam, and put someone else in power, that progress is not happening (oh wait, saddam killed his opposition)...tell pelosi, reid, and any other person that said that the war has failed, the surge did not work, etc that no progress has been made since all their nasty comments before the surge even started...my point, just because we dont see it first hand does not mean that good is not happening...sure things are taking longer than anticipated, but thats war (it doesnt always happen according to plan)...we are making things better for other people
oh yes, tell all who voted for the war (republican and democrat alike) that they are responsible for everything that happened...after all, it was an overwhelming majority of congress that gave bush the approval to go ahead and head into iraq
Sure war costs money and lives, but life is cheap and we're already up to our necks in debt! Paying off all the various war lords, er, I mean, the surge of troops has worked great in keeping the country occupied, er, at peace. And look at all the religious freedom the militant Islamic groups have now to persecute minority religious groups. It's heartwarming!
Honestly guys. This isn't a right or left partisan type of thing. I'm not discounting the idea that good can't come from the war in Iraq, but let's try being a little more realistic in our defense over a war we went to on COMPLETELY FALSE PRETENSES. And let's not pretend that replacing the puppet dictator we put in power to begin with was some sort of reason to pat ourselves on the back.
America fucked up because we thought we were better than all the european countries who've royally fucked up the middle east by treating their territory like its ours and expecting them not to be pissed when we arbitrarily put borders around where they live, choose a war lord to consolidate power in the territory and then tell them congratulations, you are now a (fill-in-the-blank-of-completely-made-up-country), now get along with your fellow countrymen.
Last Edit: Mar 21, 2009 12:41:34 GMT -5 by neighborhooodcreep - Back to Top
thanks jigawad for not being brainwashed by the liberal media
I seriously cringe whenever I hear somerthing like this. Yes, some media has a liberal bias. But Fox News and the Rupert Murdoch empire brainwash plenty of sheep everyday as well. In general, people tend to get their information from whatever media most fits their preconceved beliefs. How many Republicans do you know that actually watch Keith Olbermann or read Huffington Post, or how many Democrats listen to Rush Limbaugh or read Free Republic? Both sides of the media exist, and both sides do a great job of spewing propoganda bullhonkey.
Now I have mad respect for all our troops. I have family that have served in this war and thankfully all have made it home safely, but will likely be returning to that general area of the world soon. It's their job to do what it takes to defend this nation and the ideals it was founded on. They follow their orders and are willing to go off to foriegn lands and potentially die in the name of our country. They perform a necessary function that is something that I in all honesty could not and would not do. And all too often these brave people don't get the love, respect, and help they deserve when their service is complete, even from the government that sent them over there in the first place.
I realize that progress has been made (finally), and that "The Surge" (TM) worked, and that Saddam needed to go (back in Gulf War 1). But all this came at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars that our economy really could use right about now. There are more terrorists now than when we started, and there's no way you can really ever capture/kill all the terrorists because new ones join the cause everyday. And really, "The Surge" working is pretty much equivalent to scoring a touchdown with your 3rd string offense when your down 53-7 late in the fourth quarter.
We have won many battles in Iraq, but I truely feel we lost the war a while ago. Bin Laden and Al Qaeda's goal was never to destroy as many American lives as possible, but to bring down our mighty nation by leading it into a quagmire of a war that would eventually lead to our economic collapse. They know that their scattered thousands is no match for our millions of people and the most powerful military on the planet. Our government and intelligence agencies have known this since before 9/11/01. Yet even as we're drawing down in Iraq we're ramping up in Afghanistan/Pakistan for what I fear is another unwinnable war. All we have to do is ask Russia about controlling that area of the world.
So now our economic, education, health care, and social security systems are all in crisis mode from years and in some cases decades of neglect. Nevermind the environmental problems our entire world is facing. We're throwing trillions of dollars at failed industries and billions of dollars per month waging two wars and maintaining military bases in the vast majority of countries around the world.
There will always be people who hate America, want us all dead, etc. Every world superpower is going to be subject to terror attacks from inside as well as abroad, and have been for quite a long time. Losing 3000+ people in one day is a horrible tragedy, but it it really worth hundreds of thousands more lives in a war with a nation that had no direct ties to the attacks? Is it worth shoveling money overseas when millions at home are out of work and industries are failing left and right? Is the way to keep us safe really by killing thousands of Muslims half a work a way rather than increased defensive startegies and intelligence at home?
sure war sux...it costs money and lives...but tell the women and children who now have a future that they never could have had that progress is being made in small amounts...tell the people that can vote for their leaders that progress is slow...tell the people who would have voted against saddam, and put someone else in power, that progress is not happening (oh wait, saddam killed his opposition)...tell pelosi, reid, and any other person that said that the war has failed, the surge did not work, etc that no progress has been made since all their nasty comments before the surge even started...my point, just because we dont see it first hand does not mean that good is not happening...sure things are taking longer than anticipated, but thats war (it doesnt always happen according to plan)...we are making things better for other people
oh yes, tell all who voted for the war (republican and democrat alike) that they are responsible for everything that happened...after all, it was an overwhelming majority of congress that gave bush the approval to go ahead and head into iraq
sure war sux...it costs money and lives...but tell the women and children who now have a future that they never could have had that progress is being made in small amounts...tell the people that can vote for their leaders that progress is slow...tell the people who would have voted against saddam, and put someone else in power, that progress is not happening (oh wait, saddam killed his opposition)...tell pelosi, reid, and any other person that said that the war has failed, the surge did not work, etc that no progress has been made since all their nasty comments before the surge even started...my point, just because we dont see it first hand does not mean that good is not happening...sure things are taking longer than anticipated, but thats war (it doesnt always happen according to plan)...we are making things better for other people
oh yes, tell all who voted for the war (republican and democrat alike) that they are responsible for everything that happened...after all, it was an overwhelming majority of congress that gave bush the approval to go ahead and head into iraq
keep drinking that koolaid...they lied to us!!!
glad youre seeing it my way...and thanks the name calling for having a different belief than you
sure war sux...it costs money and lives...but tell the women and children who now have a future that they never could have had that progress is being made in small amounts...tell the people that can vote for their leaders that progress is slow...tell the people who would have voted against saddam, and put someone else in power, that progress is not happening (oh wait, saddam killed his opposition)...tell pelosi, reid, and any other person that said that the war has failed, the surge did not work, etc that no progress has been made since all their nasty comments before the surge even started...my point, just because we dont see it first hand does not mean that good is not happening...sure things are taking longer than anticipated, but thats war (it doesnt always happen according to plan)...we are making things better for other people
oh yes, tell all who voted for the war (republican and democrat alike) that they are responsible for everything that happened...after all, it was an overwhelming majority of congress that gave bush the approval to go ahead and head into iraq
i would rather not get into a political argument and be known as "that guy" who has a different view than 99% of inforoo's views...also, the name calling was when you called me "jigawad" (unless that was a type-o, in which case i would apologize for the accusation)
^^^you really are something else, bro...ill also bet your the type to spit on soldiers when they return, because you believe that our army is really killing innocent civilians and terrorizing children in the dead of night
also know, that while things dont look too good for the economy (especially with geithner giving out bonuses left and right), the president that you voted for is off watching basketball games, going on leno and making fun of people with disabilities, and picking his brackets for college ball...when there was HUGE spending bill to pass it was convienent to say that we are in a crisis, but once the bill was passed things changed to "things are not as bad as they seem"...thats exactly what we need in a president right now ...i also seem to remember a candidate say that ALL the troops will be out of iraq within 9 months of a certain candidacy, and now all of a sudden it will be several years before they are out completely
^^^you really are something else, bro...ill also bet your the type to spit on soldiers when they return, because you believe that our army is really killing innocent civilians and terrorizing children in the dead of night
also know, that while things dont look too good for the economy, the president that you voted for is off watching basketball games, going on leno and making fun of people with disabilities, and picking his brackets for college ball...thats exactly what we need in a president right now
Sure, Obama has done more his first 60 days then Bush did his. Bush already was at the ranch on vacation. And throwing out that tired spiting on the troops crap is ridiculous. I served in the army and am against Iraq as are many people I know who are in. If the only criticism you can come up with on Obama is that he is on Leno pushing his proposal and reassuring the the American people in a assessable venue, liking basketball, and making a mistake with what he said which he apologized for (cause we all know Bush never made mistakes when he spoke) then he is doing a far better job then you want to give him credit for..
^^^so were you ordered to kill innocent civilians (including elderly, women, and children)...pretty sure that i know the answer to that one...that being the case, are the soldiers killing innocent people on "secret missions"...so there are isolated cases of bad soldiers, but it doesnt define our army...why is it that obama has to go out and reassure the people that things are ok...could it possibly be that the more people realize what he is about, the more they doubt their own vote (if they voted for obama), and his popularity numbers are sinking...i do believe so
i cant think of any president that has ever had to "tour" the country right after being elected to reassure people that things will be alright
No it doesn't define the Army..... and most of them that did things like that were contract soldiers that did many illegal things and should be prosecuted. things... Which this was the most they were ever used at this level...No president when on tour to push an agenda like no president used the new form of TV like JFK did or radio like FDR did. These are new times... His rating is still high. People now he got the short stick from good ol W.
As far as being ordered to kill innocent civilians--I could have I was stationed in Alaska and I could see Russia from my base---back then it was still USSR..
No WMD (wasn't that the whole point? Colin Powell took the bait)
I remember reading a lengthy article about the lead-up to the war inside the White House - I think it was Newsweek circa 2004-5. One of the things I remember most from it, which was attributed to more than one source that winessed it, was that it went something like this:
At a Cabinet meeting, Colin Powell was presented with a dossier containing materials to make his case for the war before the UN. After going through the report, he angrily tossed it away and said "This is bullshit."
I don't think Powell took any bait. I think he was a "company man" who knew what was up and still did it anyway.
how many Democrats listen to Rush Limbaugh or read Free Republic?
I listen to Limbaugh at a rate nearing one show per week. Not that I necessarily agree with him, but I like to know what both sides of the spectrum are chattering about.
also know, that while things dont look too good for the economy (especially with geithner giving out bonuses left and right), the president that you voted for is off watching basketball games, going on leno and making fun of people with disabilities, and picking his brackets for college ball...
I've been hearing the complaints about Obama's brackets from the right lately. I find this quite amusing and hypocritical. In total, W spent over a full year of his presidency at his Crawford ranch, and nobody on the right made a peep about it.
All the sudden Obama takes a few minutes out of his day to play a bracket and he's the devil for it?