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The thing with headliners is by the time they are big enough to headline they are not in their prime.
My feeling is that they don't necessarily have to be in their prime but at least still be relevant. There are plenty of established artists, some of whom have been mentioned, who are still performing music, writing music, maintaining their buzz, etc. who are not on the casino nostalgia circuit. Radiohead, Dave Matthews Band, even Metallica, Pearl Jam and Springsteen still are undisputable arena draws who are recording music that is on year-end lists and awards shows.
I'm not saying that there isn't a place for buzz reunions and touring mainstays but I'd still like Roo keeping an eye on the present and future, ya know?
Well the thing is are any of those bands truely in their prime? I certainly don't think so. The White Stripes are no longer in their prime imo. I don't think Bonnaroo could get any band to headline that would truly be currently making the best music of their careers.
If the headliners next year were all "modern" bands there would be so much complaining. Look what happened to Jack Johnson. He is easily big enough to headline a night but so many people complained he was replaced.
People complained so much about Jack Johnson that it gave Greg Allman hepatitis?
They're not making the best music of their careers anymore.
Elephant and Get Behind Me Satan are their best two records
White Blood Cells and Icky Thump are their most accessible
I wouldn't say their first two records are their best simply because those records were fairly one note despite having some of the best songs in their canon (Screwdriver, Hello Operator, Apple Blossom, Your Pretty Good Looking) etc.
White Stripes are still in their prime Radiohead is still in their prime MMJ is still in their prime and maybe even Pearl Jam is still in their prime, that one is a little more debatable.
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
Not even Radiohead can outwiegh the crappyness of Van Halen and Phish as headliners.
Heh. I know that Van Halen as a headliner would piss a lot of people off, but it would be awesome for me. They could definitely receive top billing at ShmohawkFest...and then maybe Iron Maiden 2nd. ;D
They're not making the best music of their careers anymore.
Elephant and Get Behind Me Satan are their best two records
White Blood Cells and Icky Thump are their most accessible
I wouldn't say their first two records are their best simply because those records were fairly one note despite having some of the best songs in their canon (Screwdriver, Hello Operator, Apple Blossom, Your Pretty Good Looking) etc.
White Stripes are still in their prime Radiohead is still in their prime MMJ is still in their prime and maybe even Pearl Jam is still in their prime, that one is a little more debatable.
The rest? Well probably not.
If I was going to rank Stripes albums I would go White Blood Cells>De Stijl>Elephant>White Stripes>Get Behind Me Satan>Icky Thump. I think their best albums are behind them. I'm not trying to say that the next album won't be great or even trying to say that Icky Thump wasn't a good album. I'm just saying that imo their prime is behind them. Radiohead's best days are behind them too. OKC and Kid A/Amnesiac were clearly their best recording sessions and they will probably continue to produce great albums but not on the level of the OKC and Kid A/mnesiac. I don't know quite as much about MMJ because I'm not as huge of a fan as I am for the Stripes or for Radiohead, but I didn't enjoy Evil Urges as much as the previous albums.
But to me part of what puts bands primes behind them is the success that they achieve due to being that amazing. Radiohead and more particularly Yorke's best writing days are behind him. Part of what made Yorke such a great writer was all that angst and depression, but now that he is more comfortable with himself and his fame he has settled to write comfortable albums, I'm looking at you IR, and comfortable songs, such as Nude, JFIP, HoC, Reckoner. I hope I'm wrong about this, and maybe some of the 08 tour soundchecks will turn out to be as amazing as they sound, but I still think Yorke doesn't have a OKC left in him. I still <3 Jonny just as much as ever. And I think Yorke's career arc is similar to many other prolific artists. Maybe it's because I'm relatively unknowledgeable, I'm only 18, but I think that most artists are doomed. There seem to be very few exceptions to this.
That's what we were saying. It's a couple posts up.
Agree to disagree about The White Stripes and Radiohead. I think OK is their best record but i wouldn't put IR in another group, in fact i like it a lot better than Amnesiac and Kid A.
And c'mon man Evil Urges is all kinds of awesome. To each their own.
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
Post by awolfatthedoor on Jul 15, 2009 20:29:12 GMT -5
Well to be fair I went into Evil Urges not expecting greatness. My MMJ fan friends said it wasn't really up top par with the rest of their discography. And I wasn't even really familiar with MMJ before Friday night last year, so I was rushed into all of their music at once.
You must have missed out on Kid A. It really is beyond amazing. And I can agree to disagree about The Stripes. I just think Icky Thump was a step down from the rest of the albums and I was really disappointed by that. I didn't really think Broken Boy Soldiers was that good either but Consolers of the Lonely was amazing. And I'm looking forward to getting Horehound but I haven't been to the record store yet.
And ITM I was trying to say that no one that has been suggested for headlining truly has their greatest music in front of them
Not even Radiohead can outwiegh the crappyness of Van Halen and Phish as headliners.
Heh. I know that Van Halen as a headliner would piss a lot of people off, but it would be awesome for me. They could definitely receive top billing at ShmohawkFest...and then maybe Iron Maiden 2nd. ;D
I don't know, from what I hear the reunion shows were pretty daran good. I think they easily are big enough to do it, and I bet more 30 year olds would go to Van Halen than did Bruce.
I don't know, from what I hear the reunion shows were pretty daran good. I think they easily are big enough to do it, and I bet more 30 year olds would go to Van Halen than did Bruce.
you heard right! VH would be one of those bands that people would whine about playing Roo until they saw the show. this isn't Van Hagar people!
maybe word will get back to AC/DC that the Roo crowd loved Phish's cover of Highway to Hell and they'll want to play the farm next year.
Forgive me if i don't wanna see a sixteen year old bass player with 3 fifty year olds playing "Dance the Night Away". There aren' t many headliners i would just straight up skip besides Van Halen.
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
Forgive me if i don't wanna see a sixteen year old bass player with 3 fifty year olds playing "Dance the Night Away". There aren' t many headliners i would just straight up skip besides Van Halen.
I'd rather have AC/DC in the older rocker category......and i'm not a huge fan of theirs.
Elephant and Get Behind Me Satan are their best two records
White Blood Cells and Icky Thump are their most accessible
I wouldn't say their first two records are their best simply because those records were fairly one note despite having some of the best songs in their canon (Screwdriver, Hello Operator, Apple Blossom, Your Pretty Good Looking) etc.
White Stripes are still in their prime Radiohead is still in their prime MMJ is still in their prime and maybe even Pearl Jam is still in their prime, that one is a little more debatable.
The rest? Well probably not.
If I was going to rank Stripes albums I would go White Blood Cells>De Stijl>Elephant>White Stripes>Get Behind Me Satan>Icky Thump. I think their best albums are behind them. I'm not trying to say that the next album won't be great or even trying to say that Icky Thump wasn't a good album. I'm just saying that imo their prime is behind them. Radiohead's best days are behind them too. OKC and Kid A/Amnesiac were clearly their best recording sessions and they will probably continue to produce great albums but not on the level of the OKC and Kid A/mnesiac. I don't know quite as much about MMJ because I'm not as huge of a fan as I am for the Stripes or for Radiohead, but I didn't enjoy Evil Urges as much as the previous albums.
But to me part of what puts bands primes behind them is the success that they achieve due to being that amazing. Radiohead and more particularly Yorke's best writing days are behind him. Part of what made Yorke such a great writer was all that angst and depression, but now that he is more comfortable with himself and his fame he has settled to write comfortable albums, I'm looking at you IR, and comfortable songs, such as Nude, JFIP, HoC, Reckoner. I hope I'm wrong about this, and maybe some of the 08 tour soundchecks will turn out to be as amazing as they sound, but I still think Yorke doesn't have a OKC left in him. I still <3 Jonny just as much as ever. And I think Yorke's career arc is similar to many other prolific artists. Maybe it's because I'm relatively unknowledgeable, I'm only 18, but I think that most artists are doomed. There seem to be very few exceptions to this.
And /rant.
Just an FYI - "Nude" was written in 1997 around the time of OKC. They just didn't release it until IR. It was a fan favorite at shows for a long, long time.
Right but bands like Rush and the Who are probably a lot further removed from their primes than Pearl Jam and Tool. That's what I'm saying.
I'm not saying that Rush is currently in their prime, but they absolutely bring it to their live shows. Unlike most arena-rock singers, Geddy Lee has not lost anything off of his amazing voice, and all three of them are completely focused and execute perfectly on stage. Neil Peart is constantly seeking to expand his musical palette, and their latest album is actually very good. They may not be "relevant" (I agree with the notion that no headliner is or can be) but they would bring in a ton of fans and put on a tremendous show.
Yes there is a difference between being in your prime as a recording artist and being in your prime as a performer. Rush is definately still a beast live.
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
Yes there is a difference between being in your prime as a recording artist and being in your prime as a performer. Rush is definately still a beast live.
Yeah I guess this really has been the difference sitting in front of me the whole time. Hopefully Bonnaroo will continue to book the headliners that could still put on a great show, like this year, and stopping booking acts like The Police.
And I know Nude was in the Meeting People is Easy documentary, but it's inclusion on IR points to the lackluster, by Yorke standards, wordplay in some of the songs. Nude really lacks any sort of power behind it, imo. That's what had me disappointed with IR.
Post by nodepression on Jul 16, 2009 13:40:55 GMT -5
I really like In Rainbows. It's my third favorite behind Kid A and Ok Computer because of its ability to bring every aspect of their post Pablo Honey material. The clear vocals, the dense atmosphere, it's the album I listen to the most. After seeing the material live last year it's anything but lackluster. To me they're still just as relevant today, if not even more so, than during their Ok Computer years.
Yes there is a difference between being in your prime as a recording artist and being in your prime as a performer. Rush is definately still a beast live.
Yeah I guess this really has been the difference sitting in front of me the whole time. Hopefully Bonnaroo will continue to book the headliners that could still put on a great show, like this year, and stopping booking acts like The Police.
And I know Nude was in the Meeting People is Easy documentary, but it's inclusion on IR points to the lackluster, by Yorke standards, wordplay in some of the songs. Nude really lacks any sort of power behind it, imo. That's what had me disappointed with IR.
While I absolutely respect your opinion, I must disagree. One of the most appealing qualities of Radiohead, and one that actually serves as a testament to the whole "relevant/prime" is that they are ever changing and always evolving. They almost certainly could have followed up OKC with OKC 2, but instead they created Kid A - and it was a masterpiece (imo).
Now, whether or not you liked Kid A, or Amnesiac, or Hail to The Theif, or In Rainbows, well, that's a different story. I personally couldn't get into Hail To The Theif like I could with previous albums, but I actually like In Rainbows better. I guess my point is that they are always reinventing themselves and evolutionizing, and to me, these are aspects representative of a band who is not past their prime, but one who is still making relevant, integritous music that will stand the test of time. IMHO, of course.
Post by awolfatthedoor on Jul 16, 2009 17:44:51 GMT -5
No no I completely agree with what you're saying outside of HTTT being lackluster . I certainly wouldn't be sad if they did OKC 2 or Kid A 2, but I love that Radiohead continues to change their sound and I really did like the sound of IR, if you can put any album into one sound. In Rainbows was, imho of course, well crafted and had a great sound and great production. I think Ed does some really great work with the effects in that album, and Jonny is a master of course.
The criticism I have of IR is that lyrically it doesn't hold up to OKC or even more recently HTTT. HTTT has a bunch of really powerful songs like AWATD, 2+2=5, and There There among others. FWIW I just listed those because those are, generally and maybe just on atease, considered the best songs on HTTT. I think that there a whole bunch of other songs on HTTT that stand out. Every Radiohead album, this is imo of course, has those amazingly powerful songs that stand out over the rest. I could go through a list but even I find my lists boring Anyway IR only had two songs to me that were amazing songs to me. Maybe I was or am being picky but songs like Nude and HoC are just not up to Radiohead standards. They just aren't powerful like I expect Radiohead songs to be. Arpeggi and Videotape are the only songs on IR that I would consider putting in the top 25 Radiohead songs. And I really don't see any excuse for IR having meh songs, or songs that make me just go after hearing them, because they were in the studio an adequate amount of time to make a great album.
I understand HTTT having 3 or 4 songs that belong as b-sides because it was recorded in two weeks, so when I compare HTTT to IR I put the songs 1-10 up against IR's 1-10 and, imo of course, HTTT easily wins. Unsettled songs like Myxomatosis, Punchup, Go to Sleep, STM easily beat Thom's content with his life songs like All I Need, Reckoner, Nude, JFIP to me. It seems to me like Thom's edge was taken off after HTTT.
Anyway after that ramble that went on way too long I just want to say I really do like IR. I enjoy and listen to it more than I do a whole lot of other albums I really like. I just hold Radiohead up to a higher standard than most other bands because they are, imo, the best or second best band of each of the last two decades. I really do love IR and Radiohead still I just don't think we will ever see an album as genius as OKC or Kid A again from them.
P.S. If we're going to rank albums I'm going to go OKC>Kid A>HTTT~=Amnesiac>IR~=Bends.
Post by ChiefPemperToadWigginsky on Jul 16, 2009 19:03:10 GMT -5
^^ Stevie Miller Band has been reduced to county fairs and small biker rallies. I'd love to see them at Roo but have been told that they are no where near what they used to be. Don't think they could headline but they would still be an awesome addition for me.
Post by AgainstNunes! on Jul 17, 2009 13:00:05 GMT -5
A band who continues to make incredible, inventive music... not past their prime... puts on a high-energy, unforgettable show...
MUSE
I don't see why so many people say they couldn't headline bonnaroo. Lots of people would show up... and once they started playing, everyone at their campsites would hear the power of MUSE and flock to the main stage to rejoice and be glad.
Even a pre-headlining spot would be just. Just not on which stage, cause which stage blows.
2/5- Papadosio 3/3- MUSE 3/12- John Mayer 3/19- The Werks 3/31- Passion Pit 4/18- Ben Folds 4/20- Against Me! 6/10- Bonnaroo 6/30- Eric Clapton and Roger Daltrey
A band who continues to make incredible, inventive music... not past their prime... puts on a high-energy, unforgettable show...
MUSE
I don't see why so many people say they couldn't headline bonnaroo. Lots of people would show up... and once they started playing, everyone at their campsites would hear the power of MUSE and flock to the main stage to rejoice and be glad.
Even a pre-headlining spot would be just. Just not on which stage, cause which stage blows.
I really thought muse would be there this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see them on the lineup next year.......not sure if they would headline......probably have a diff slot.
edit: just fixed my last sentence......i worded it weird which made it seem like i thought muse would headline.....i don't think they would.
No way they would headline. I put them on the same level if not a little under Beck, Daft Punk, White Stripes, MMJ, and Arcade Fire. They would be a late night which stage NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
Friday type headliners would be like Rage, RHCP, Jay Z, or AC/DC.
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver