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I'll play the next game I s'pose, but I want to propose a new rule. You all know what it's gonna be, and I'm completely cool with it being labeled the "Strumdiddley Rule" and that is the Inspector, or any player for that matter, would not be able to blatantly reveal their role as Inspector in the game. Hints, suggestions, and other forms of innuendo are perfectly fine and encouraged of the inspector, but I really think it takes away from the game when it's made so obvious for the townspeople as to who to vote for. I mean, it's hard enough for the mafia to win when the inspector has two names at the beginning of day 2. It's damn near impossible when the entire game has 2 names before day 2 ends. And really, if I'm not mistaken, this is technically already found in the rules under the beloved Kdogg rule:
10) AKA The Kdogg Rule: There will be no sharing of role PM's inside the thread or outside for the purpose of disclosing your role to another player.
I'm not tryin to bust anyones balls or accuse of cheating or unfair play. It was just an observation I had in my immediate frustrations when Jen came clean as Inspector ;d
So, that's my contingency as to whether I play next game or not. I really think it's a lot more fun for everyone anyways when they have to figure out who the inspector is anyways and it's not made more obvious
I think you're misreading the intentions of the rule I inspired.
That rule exists because I had directly quoted my role PM in a previous game. The referee had included a typo when telling me I was a Townsperson; I was a sneaky bastid and quoted my entire role PM to point this out - and thus prove my innocence. This rule is not about not discussing one's role - it is about not directly revealing that role PM to the thread. There is a difference. Nobody here referenced their role PM, which is (at least as far as I believe) what the kdogg rule was established to prevent. What I did was more "blatant" than anything that could be said in the thread without sharing a role PM.
What are the odds of an Inspector having two names to begin Day Two, anyway? Depending on whether the first to be voted dead is Mafia or not, it's either 2 or 3 out-of-9 odds. I think you're trying to rein in the exception, rather than the rule.
There's ample opportunity for players to persuade/lie/whatever in this game... I figure as long as players are able to state something without providing absolute proof (as the kdogg rule aims to prevent) everything should be fine. Without conclusive proof, it's up to individual players to decide what to make of what's being said. That's what this game is about, no?
You realize what this rule would do, right? Nobody would ever get to "pull a Higgi" with false Inspector claims. Not to mention the fact that it would disallow anyone from even saying "I'm a Townsperson" while the game is going. Think about what it would do to F'ing Maniac's approach to the game. And Strum, remember that laugh we had over Bacon's false Inspector claims? You want to get rid of that too?
I didn't want to come out so early as inspector this time....but last time when I DIDN'T come out early I ended up getting a bunch of townspeople killed! So either way someone is unhappy
If I would have stayed alive I would have asked about Wolf who was innocent and my next target would have been Bek....so I guess it would have come out the same either way.
Post by rooconteur on Aug 20, 2009 17:22:49 GMT -5
jen, while it would have been nice for you to have made it another night, i thought you played it well. strum, dont forget that jen needed to guess you the first night. if she does, she should be rewarded by being able to come out and say what she knows. the mafia can always come up with their own inpspector with 1-2 built in allies. If there was no inspector to come out, the game would be a bunnch of randome guessin
Post by rooconteur on Aug 20, 2009 17:39:14 GMT -5
if people are open to the idea, im willing to bring back the 13 person game. 9 townspeople (invcluding inspector and vigilante, no nurse. ) just for a round
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 20, 2009 18:36:09 GMT -5
more or less, jen. the vigilante is a townie who does not reveal their role to anyone. they are allowed every other night to submit(or not submit) a death story for a person of their choice to the ref.
You realize what this rule would do, right? Nobody would ever get to "pull a Higgi" with false Inspector claims. Not to mention the fact that it would disallow anyone from even saying "I'm a Townsperson" while the game is going. Think about what it would do to F'ing Maniac's approach to the game. And Strum, remember that laugh we had over Bacon's false Inspector claims? You want to get rid of that too?
I am against the Strumdiddley rule.
I think you're misreading my proposed rule just as much as I misinterpreted yours (although I'll admit I intentionally loosely interpreted it to help my case ) I'm only saying you can't proclaim your role as Inspector. You should be able to claim your townspersonship or, if you wanna die that bad, your mafianess. I realize I've had some good laughs over fake inspector claims, but I'm willing to sacrifice those cheap laughs for a game requiring more attention to details and a bit more skill, rather than just following orders.
i agree. it restricts normal game play, and affects strategy.
Pardon my traditionality here, but I'm positive that in the first 10 games of mafia or so which I was an avid participant there was never once an Inspector claim. I didn't feel game play was restricted, and the only way it affects strategy is it makes people pay more attention and think more. I don't think it's that bad of a switch, really.
Keep in mind guys, I've had a strong distaste for this maneuver before this game even started. I've always expressed my distaste for it, so it's not like I'm just bitter about losing. I really just think it'd be more fun for all involved if someone can't outright claim their the inspector, whether there's proof about it or not.
I brought forth this analogy to my fellow mafia members while I was ranting after Jen outed us, and I think it's a damn good analogy to consider. It's like when you're doing the crossword puzzle in the morning paper. You make some progress on it, but suddenly you're stumped so what do you do? Of course, you flip the page to the back and look for that one answer to the word you're missing. You fill in the word, use it to piece together the puzzle, get stumped again, and repeat. Finally you've finished the puzzle and solved all the words but you realize you've been handed 2/3 the answers just by flipping the page and seeing the truth right infront of you. I personally get much more pride out of solving the puzzle without any help other than looking for clues and similarities and using those to my advantage.
Can you guys really say it was fun for you when you knew exactly who to vote for for two rounds? It may have been fun laughing at me trying to defend myself, but there was absolutely no strategy involved in half the game! It was simply following instructions basically...
As you can tell, I do feel strongly about this rule. I really don't think it would harm the game at all, but if nobody else wants to use it then just like hippie, I'm fine sitting out until it is used.
strum, dont forget that jen needed to guess you the first night. if she does, she should be rewarded by being able to come out and say what she knows. the mafia can always come up with their own inpspector with 1-2 built in allies. If there was no inspector to come out, the game would be a bunnch of randome guessin
You're right she does need to guess correctly to have two names after round 1. She should be rewarded by being able to try and persuade the game without directly revealing her role. There's plenty of ways to do this. It's not just a bunch of random guesses. It's called strategy and having creativity in how to get your message across. (See steveternal's role in AS Mafia game: "I vote wooz. There's only room for one Steve here. And besides, He's mafia") That's sending a message to your townspeople without saying "Hey guys I'm inspector and I was given Wooz's name!"
It's not just a bunch of random guessin otherwise. If that's the case, is what you're saying is you just guess randomly at this game until an inspector tells you who to vote for? If that's the kind of game that's played now then I have no interest in it, to be honest
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 21, 2009 0:43:21 GMT -5
fwiw, i'd be down for strum's rule before playing a round with extra roles. i do see his point...it can make things a little more fun. but, if i were to be inspector, and after a few rounds had all names, you better believe i'd be telling people. i mean, in the end we can all say whatever we want. it all comes down to who you should or can believe.
Post by strumntheguitar on Aug 21, 2009 1:25:28 GMT -5
^^That's the thing, hippie! It comes down to, can you trust this person who is dropping all these hints like crazy and should you follow their suit in voting pattern. I think it makes it a lot more fun than just randomly guessing until someone claims to be inspector and tells you who to vote for.
I'm serious in that I'll only play next game if my rule is in tact. I honestly didn't think it'd meet such opposition, but if everyone playing is just relying on an inspector to confess and tell them who to vote for then honestly I have absolutely no interest in playing whatsoever. There are plenty of ways to drop hints that you're the inspector without outright declaring so. It just comes down to, are people willing to pay close enough attention to figure it out!? That's what I think this game should be about. If it's just guessing randomly until someone tells you who to vote for, well then I just think the game is boring.
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 21, 2009 11:14:09 GMT -5
fair enough
like i said, i'd be more apt to play by strum's rule than adding the extra roles. there's already enough for the townspeople to think about without adding in all that stuff. not to mention it can really make the games dragggggggg. then again, i'm probably jaded by the 50+ page mafia game that ended up being played bc of it
^^That's the thing, hippie! It comes down to, can you trust this person who is dropping all these hints like crazy and should you follow their suit in voting pattern. I think it makes it a lot more fun than just randomly guessing until someone claims to be inspector and tells you who to vote for.
I'm serious in that I'll only play next game if my rule is in tact. I honestly didn't think it'd meet such opposition, but if everyone playing is just relying on an inspector to confess and tell them who to vote for then honestly I have absolutely no interest in playing whatsoever. There are plenty of ways to drop hints that you're the inspector without outright declaring so. It just comes down to, are people willing to pay close enough attention to figure it out!? That's what I think this game should be about. If it's just guessing randomly until someone tells you who to vote for, well then I just think the game is boring.
The problem with this rule is it is super vague. You can't say " I am inspector" but how about: "I am 100% ______ is innocent/guilty" "I had a revelation last night that________" "I know that ________ are working together" "I PMed the ref last night and I am sure as hell not mafia"
There are many ways to say "I am inspector" without saying "I am inspector". Plus what is the punishment if someone says "I am inspector". We need to work all of this out before I am OK with this rule. If we don't I am 100% sure that this game is going to end in a very controversial way and no one will be happy. Plus can you say "I am mafia" or "I am a towny"?
Post by strumntheguitar on Aug 21, 2009 16:46:02 GMT -5
^^Yeah dude, I pretty much addressed all that previously. I'm saying you can't specifically say that you are the inspector. You can drop hints all day long with any of those examples you provided and then some, although I think the PMing the ref example is a bit of a stretch... Any of the other 3 are quotes that any regular townsperson could say in the game. And as I've said, I only intend for this to pertain to inspector. You can say that you're a townsperson, or if you feel so inclined, mafia, all you'd like.
As for punishment of violating the rule... I mean... just don't do it and it wouldn't be an issue I'd say. I don't think someone would accidentally say that they're the inspector, but I guess if it does happen I'd think the punishment would be that person is given the boot.
I'm not trying to spark controversy or anything here with this suggestion. I can't imagine this rule would really generate any to begin with... it's a pretty black/white issue. Just don't say you're the inspector and there wouldn't be anything to be pissy about
I am not trying to bitch it is just games when people get the boot SUCK. I want to make sure I and everyone else understands exactly the bounds of this new rule are if everyone seems to agree we should add it.
Two more questions.
Who is determining what is Kosher and not. We have so many refs with different opinions of how the game should be played that I feel this rule is going to change every game.
Does this rule apply only to the inspector or can a mafia say "I am inspector". ?
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 21, 2009 16:57:04 GMT -5
i don't think strum is asking for a permanent rule change. just a game or two. and as far as the rule, i'd say it's across the board. NO ONE can say they are inspector. everything must be done the way the rest of it is...with suggestive text and flat out lies :-p
Post by nitetimeritetime on Aug 21, 2009 17:02:37 GMT -5
I would think it wouldn't be in the best interest of mafia to say they are the inspector with strum's rule in place. If they did, they'd be booted from the game (killed, whatever). Not much of a payoff there as far as I can see.
Post by strumntheguitar on Aug 21, 2009 17:05:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean in my perfect self-centered world I would love for it to be a permanent rule change, but I realize that's not the case so all I'm asking is like hippie said, a game or two. Games where people get the boot do suck, I agree. I certainly don't want this to happen either.
And yes, clearly this rule would apply to everyone in the game, regardless of actual role in the game. I'm a fan of universal rules applying to everyone
And no worries, I know you're not bitchin or anything. Just curious, and it's always good to make sure you're completely clear on rules and whatnot before you dig into them
I would think it wouldn't be in the best interest of mafia to say they are the inspector with strum's rule in place. If they did, they'd be booted from the game (killed, whatever). Not much of a payoff there as far as I can see.
haha yeah, plus everyone would know you were lying anyways cause the inspector wouldn't be allowed to make such a claim!
Post by ☮ superbek ☮ on Aug 21, 2009 17:49:44 GMT -5
I think the best way to get an idea of what strum means is to go back and read one of the really old mafia games. The old games are pretty short ('cause those were simple times, boy) and there is a lot more speculation which generally makes for a better game.
As a whole, the games has def evolved since we began playing it and the rules are ever changing. Although we have many different refs, I think it is good the way we usually work together when working out major changes. Sometimes we change things and then we change them back... you know, whatever works best. I def think it is worth a try to play a game by strum's suggestion... especailly if you have never played a game where the inspector is kept on the DL.
edit: I just went back and read the Mafia(Game) thread and it made me really sad because it is a bunch of super awesome people who don't even play on this board anymore. come back friends...
Post by rooconteur on Aug 21, 2009 17:55:24 GMT -5
i am the ref this game. stfu about the inspector rule. if the inspector has the skills to guess a mafia on night one, and is willing to give his/her life for the good fot he townspeopl, he should be applauded. nobody is stopping mafia from presenting their own inspector in response to townspeoples inpsetor or even before townspeoples inspector.
i am the ref this game. stfu about the inspector rule. if the inspector has the skills to guess a mafia on night one, and is willing to give his/her life for the good fot he townspeopl, he should be applauded. nobody is stopping mafia from presenting their own inspector in response to townspeoples inpsetor or even before townspeoples inspector.
cheers
lol ok, then count me out of this game and probably any game you ever decide to ref again.
;d
) I'm only saying you can't proclaim your role as Inspector. You should be able to claim your townspersonship or, if you wanna die that bad, your mafianess. I realize I've had some good laughs over fake inspector claims, but I'm willing to sacrifice those cheap laughs for a game requiring more attention to details and a bit more skill, rather than just following orders.
