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Post by awolfatthedoor on Jan 11, 2010 10:25:43 GMT -5
First round was random. Second round was because she was insistent about my guilt. Sorry about the vote total I just copy and pasted the last one. D'oh!
Kel, I really didn't have any reasoning. I read Bek's post wrong and when you pointed it out I didn't feel like I had anything else to go on so I just left my vote as it is so as not to slow things down. Now that I am back online (I may be on sporadically throughout the day or not at all depending on how busy work is) and voting is still open I have a chance to read what everyone has said and make a better vote.
HGH, I usually don't make a lot of sense as you can tell if you remember any of my post from other games. Other than caoming up insanely wild theories that never pan out I am typically not good at this game unless I am inspector and already have a name given to me.
Airline, you can keep your vote for me if you want but I'm changing to Kdogg. As usual, I am sick of reading his epic posts and also he looks guilty.
HGH, I am leaning toward Jen being the third mafia. Of course she changes her vote to Kdogg, she has no choice at this time and Kdogg can't be saved by voting someone else. Right now I think it's Kdogg, Wolf and Jen. That's my theory, but I could be wrong. But none of these three have gave me any doubt that I am NOT right with their post and blank information. Kdogg's long post about nothing, I asked for my 2 mins of life back after reading the non-sense.
If these three aren't guilty, then I want to hear their theories on who is and why.. Not just a bunch of BS and quoting with no fillers to prove anything
Edit: If Jen isn't the third mafia, then Jack could have been. Kdogg was trying to mislead us with the votes are lopsided stuff. And you see he voted airline.
I am positive that Kdogg and Wolf are mafia. Since I am positive of that fact, I can eliminate almost every other player that is currently alive from being mafia. Here is our player list: Players: HGH Kdogg- MAFIA Kel Hippie Airline Jen nite bek wolf- MAFIA higgi Jack
okay one of several things are happening here, which i will keep to myself for the time being.
Also, did you overlook my vote for WOLF?!!? If you think I am a candidate for Mafia, why would I vote one of my own, especially this early with no reasoning aside from his and Hippies argument. Raises my suspicion's on you, to be honest.
Post by handgunhipster on Jan 11, 2010 11:11:21 GMT -5
I can assure every townsperson that Kdogg and Wolf ARE mafia.
Higgi, you can become as defensive as you want, and say that I'm suspicious, but why, if I were mafia, would I completely rull out so many people? In ruling so many people out, I can't go back and change my story, because I don't NEED to. I know that I'm on to something. If you're not mafia, then time will tell that.. all I'm saying is who is left as the possible third based on what I know.
Post by GratefulHippie on Jan 11, 2010 12:00:57 GMT -5
between jen and higgi, i would say jen is much more suspicious. i would think a townsperson would have read more carefully early on, so as to vote accordingly. mafia wouldn't need to because their plan is already worked out. not to mention kel called her out on her mistake, yet she still decided to vote airline.
i would urge whomever our inspector is to inquire about jen tonight
I can assure every townsperson that Kdogg and Wolf ARE mafia.
Higgi, you can become as defensive as you want, and say that I'm suspicious, but why, if I were mafia, would I completely rull out so many people? In ruling so many people out, I can't go back and change my story, because I don't NEED to. I know that I'm on to something. If you're not mafia, then time will tell that.. all I'm saying is who is left as the possible third based on what I know.
I'm not being defensive whatsoever, I was just simply pointing out that I voted for one of the two people you are SURE to be mafia. I figured that would clear up your suspicions.
Clearly there is no trickery going on here, especially since I voted before you came out to say he was guilty. I can ensure you I know why you're saying you know their status as fact, and I would urge the inspector to ask about me tonight if she/he still suspects my guilt.
Mr. Kdogg, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Kdogg's post does have some issues, one or two of which I'll get to in the next post, but he does make at least one good point. When talking about Airline's voting in Day 1, he says Airline was the first to change his vote after your (Hippie's) deal with him:
It should be noted that, at this point, NTRT had voted for Jack but Jack had not yet posted to reciprocate NTRT's vote. Mentioning this because Wolf has been called out for what I believe to be the same behavior. At this point, Hippie changed her vote:
Now this is a good point, because Airline here is doing exactly what you (Hippie) are saying made Wolf look suspicious in the Day 1. That is, Airline voted for me even though I had already voted for Jack. So using the reciprocal logic, I already "had" a vote coming to me from Jack, but then Airline voted for me. Essentially this gave me two votes, even though Jack ended up voting not for me but for Airline.
I'm not sure exactly what this means yet, but it is interesting that nobody else pointed out that Airline did the same thing as Wolf. Of course, I should have been the one to point it out, but I didn't think twice about it after Jack voted for Airline instead of me.
I just wanted to point out that kdogg's post isn't quite as bad as it was made out to be. But like I said, I see some problems with that post, and I'm writing those out now in another post (this one is already too long I think).
I can only discern two potential motives that might be behind that: 1. Jack did something to incur Mafia's wrath. 2. Mafia are protecting Airline. Possibly both? (I'm probably going to - eventually - vote based one these criteria, so I'd appreciate some feedback on these particular ideas...)
...
As I said earlier, I think it comes down to Mafia defending Airline, Mafia attacking Jack, or possibly both.
I looked at these issues, but from what I can see they're not separate issues at all. The only thing Jack did in Day 1 was vote for Airline. So if he did anything to incur mafia's wrath, that had to be it. Now, if voting for Airline set the mafia against Jack, then Airline has to be mafia. In that case, the mafia obviously were also protecting Airline in the runoff. So it doesn't make sense to divide this issue, saying that mafia were either getting Jack for his vote OR protecting Airline OR both. If one of these situations is the case, then all of them have to be the case. There's no either/or here.
I'm not saying I agree with kdogg's theory, but kdogg had asked for some feedback, so there it is. Thinking about it for a second makes it clear that there's only one issue here, and I can't think of much reason to make this look like two or three possible scenarios unless you are purposely trying to complicate the issue.
It also strikes me as odd that, after voting NTRT, Airline switched his vote to join NTRT in sending Jack to the runoff. It has a whiff of orchestration to it.
I was almost ready to change my vote until that part. Here's a recap:
Jack had just voted for Airline, making Airline the only person with 2 votes. So Airline had to change his vote to someone else who already had a vote, so that there would be a runoff. If he doesn't change his vote, he gets voted off then and there.
So he had to change his vote to one of the other people with 1 vote at the time -- there were 8 of them if I'm counting right. With 8 people who he could pick to send into a runoff with him, who does he choose? He chooses the person who had given him his 2nd vote -- Jack.
Given the context, there's nothing suspicious about Airline's vote for Jack at all. It strikes me as very suspicious, though, that kdogg would really think Airline's vote was suspicious.
Like I said, I was just about ready to change my vote, because frankly I don't like the way the votes are piling up against kdogg. But it didn't take me long to see that Airline's vote was completely logical -- why didn't kdogg see that? Unless, again, he's just trying to complicate things...
between jen and higgi, i would say jen is much more suspicious. i would think a townsperson would have read more carefully early on, so as to vote accordingly. mafia wouldn't need to because their plan is already worked out. not to mention kel called her out on her mistake, yet she still decided to vote airline.
i would urge whomever our inspector is to inquire about jen tonight
you are basically saying that if I were a true townsperson I would have read more carefully? I don't think someone's role (townsperson, mafia, inspector) would make a person read any more carefully than they normally would. Even if I were Mafia I wouldn't assume that 10 other people are stupid enough not to catch something like that and correct me on it. I've seen people get called out on making mistakes and most times they really are mistakes. I've made them before this and they were always genuine. Maybe rushing through posts when I have spare time makes me a bad/careless player but playing Mafia isn't quite my number one priority in life...maybe number 4 , but definitely not number one.
As for keeping my vote for Airline, at the point I didn't have time to scrutinze each post again to make another choice. Voting for the second person in a run-off is usually a good tactic for me if I have no other idea on how to vote. I changed to Kdogg because I actually had a decent amount of internet time this morning to look over everything more carefully and re-read things.
It's like you people haven't read anything I've said at all.
I conceded the point to NTRT that it could look like I was in the cahoots with Wolf.
I don't get this whole charge I'm ignoring Wolf. His vote for Hippie was the whole reason that situation looked suspicious to me in the first place. As I said then, and I'll say now... his getting involved in that vote meant he was on one side of it or the other - I just wasn't wasn't sure which. I figure Wolf's innocence/guilt iss based tied to why he jumped into that situation, and the root of that was figuring out what was up with Hippie vs. Airline. At least to me. You do understand why figuring out the Hippie/Airline deal would be important to figuring out Wolf's situation, right?
Why is it that the Mafia appears to be defending Airline, and I voted Airline into the runoff, and suddenly I'm supposed to be cahoots with Airline? I'm sorry, but I didn't cast all eleven of those votes... I'm just looking at them.
Nite, what's up? You suggested it was possible I was working with Wolf, and I conceded your point was plausible. But when I speculate that you could be working with Airline, which I think is legitimate speculation, you say it's your reason to vote me dead?
I'm sorry, Townspeople... but if "kdogg is thinking out loud in the thread!" is a legitimate reason to vote me dead, I'm probably better off never playing Mafia again.
Excuse me for getting proactive... We've had plenty of discussion about how to make the Inspector more effective in light of Mafia blowouts. It's just a fact of this game that if Townspeople don't kill off a Mafia in their first two votes - and, I should add, we're not on a path towards doing so right now - then they have to be 100% over the next three rounds to even have a shot at winning the game. Sorry I tried to get a jump on that for you.
I'm going to cast a vote for Wolf, not that it matters, but I'm still suspicious of NTRT & Airline in that situation.
Now, I hope y'all enjoy the Mafia set-up you're walking into. I don't mind being the lemming that strays from the pack before you reach the cliff.
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
Jen and Kdogg both of you totally avoided my question of who you think is mafia and WHY???
Jen, mafia being your number 1 thing in life has nothing to do with how you read the thread. I will not post until I read it. Sounds like an excuse to me!
And Kdogg you voting Wolf is you're admitting to HGH being right? Just curious
Edit: it is weird how they posted 5 mins apart long post, Kdogg's being longer and 5 mins behind, but they're both so INNOCENT!!!!
Jen and Kdogg both of you totally avoided my question of who you think is mafia and WHY???
Jen, mafia being your number 1 thing in life has nothing to do with how you read the thread. I will not post until I read it. Sounds like an excuse to me!
And Kdogg you voting Wolf is you're admitting to HGH being right? Just curious
Kdogg, I would LOVE to see you and wolf in a run-off!! Can we make it happen?
Edit: it is weird how they posted 5 mins apart long post, Kdogg's being longer and 5 mins behind, but they're both so INNOCENT!!!!
I didn't say that Handgun was right, but I did say that the Mafia tried to set me up by whacking Bek. When you people realize I'm innocent after my death, you might want to go back and look at exactly who is calling me out.
I'm voting for Wolf because he's been on my radar. Like I said, and so many of you choose to ignore, I think the Mafia is trying to defend Airline. What I saw out of Wolf's vote for Hippie definitely looks like defending Airline. I was trying to avoid saying it in the early rounds, but I had been wondering whether Wolf's unusual vote in the first round made him Inspector with Hippie's name. It would explain why he jumped in there, despite an anticipated-but-not-cast reciprocal vote. Notice that earlier, I had said I saw Wolf going one of two opposite ways... that was my way of saying I'm sure he definitely wasn't a Townsperson, but that I couldn't figure out which side he was on. I thought voting Wolf in the first round would've given a 50-50 chance of his being Inspector, and I didn't want to take that risk. When the votes came together and I saw that it came across as Mafia defending Airline, that's what got me off the fence about Wolf.
I was trying to avoid saying that at the time, but since you Townspeople are about to throw me under the bus I don't give two shits about y'all or if you win.
It's like you people haven't read anything I've said at all.
I conceded the point to NTRT that it could look like I was in the cahoots with Wolf.
It's like you haven't read anything I've said at all. That wasn't my point, it was Kel's point. All I did was point out that your defense of Kel's accusation was illogical.
Why is it that the Mafia appears to be defending Airline, and I voted Airline into the runoff, and suddenly I'm supposed to be cahoots with Airline? I'm sorry, but I didn't cast all eleven of those votes... I'm just looking at them.
Wait, I'm confused. Who else besides you is saying mafia appears to be defending Airline? And who said you are in cahoots with Airline?
Nite, what's up? You suggested it was possible I was working with Wolf, and I conceded your point was plausible. But when I speculate that you could be working with Airline, which I think is legitimate speculation, you say it's your reason to vote me dead?
Again, I'm not the one who was saying that. I was only pointing out that that your defense was illogical.
I did not say my reason for voting for you was that you accused me of working with Airline. I said that the gaps in your logic were the reason for keeping my vote the way it is. Why are you mischaracterizing my post?
I'm not saying that I think Wolf IS the Inspector. Events seem to have proven that wrong. But I was considering the possibility of Wolf as Inspector until the runoff tally wound up being what it is. Until that happened, I was tiptoeing around the situation. In the first round it's unwise to say "I think so&so is Inspector" because it puts a target on their back.
NTRT... I said that, either way, defending Airline & attacking Jack both lead to the conclusion that Airline is probably Mafia. If, following that logic, Airline is Mafia... and I voted to send someone I'm in cahoots with into a runoff? There's a gap in logic for you.
I didn't say that Handgun was right, but I did say that the Mafia tried to set me up by whacking Bek. When you people realize I'm innocent after my death, you might want to go back and look at exactly who is calling me out.
so...why are you voting for wolf instead of someone else if you don't know if she's right? how right/wrong do you think she is?
I thought voting Wolf in the first round would've given a 50-50 chance of his being Inspector, and I didn't want to take that risk. When the votes came together and I saw that it came across as Mafia defending Airline, that's what got me off the fence about Wolf.
I was trying to avoid saying that at the time, but since you Townspeople are about to throw me under the bus I don't give two shits about y'all or if you win.
considering your defensiveness at this point, and your lack of response to HGH's post(s) which call you out as DEFINITELY BEING MAFIA, i'd say we're not throwing an innocent victim under that bus
i still think wolf is mafia, and in fact, think moreso than kdogg at this point. although i DO believe HGH. so, i suppose we could all try giving kdogg the benefit of the doubt and vote wolf off this round, and then see what night brings.
i'm good with voting either one. they both need to go.
Jen and Kdogg both of you totally avoided my question of who you think is mafia and WHY???
Jen, mafia being your number 1 thing in life has nothing to do with how you read the thread. I will not post until I read it. Sounds like an excuse to me!
And Kdogg you voting Wolf is you're admitting to HGH being right? Just curious
Edit: it is weird how they posted 5 mins apart long post, Kdogg's being longer and 5 mins behind, but they're both so INNOCENT!!!!
It has everything to do with how I read a thread because I don't have time to read something more than once when I am already in a hurry to catch up with what I have missed. Maybe I shouldn't play anymore since I don't have time to read through more than once (this in me being totally sincere, btw...no snarkiness intended). I read every word that has been posted but it just didn't translate right in my head.
As for who I think is guilty I am looking at Kdogg and Wolf right now (because Kdogg always looks guilty to me no matter what he says and Wolf just doesn't make much sense). Earlier I was suspicious of Hippie and Airline (because of the weirdness in round 1) and I still have not ruled them out. I'm not sure who the third member would be in either of those scenarios but I would guess it would be someoene who has been relatively quiet/under the radar and that leaves only Jack (dead) and Higgi. I'll have to wait until the next round to make any final declarations of who I think is guilty. I haven't felt like there has been any compelling evidence on either side.
NTRT... I said that, either way, defending Airline & attacking Jack both lead to the conclusion that Airline is probably Mafia. If, following that logic, Airline is Mafia... and I voted to send someone I'm in cahoots with into a runoff? There's a gap in logic for you.
1. Who said you were in cahoots with Airline?
2. Even if someone said you were in cahoots with Airline, who besides you is saying that Airline is mafia?
I thought voting Wolf in the first round would've given a 50-50 chance of his being Inspector, and I didn't want to take that risk. When the votes came together and I saw that it came across as Mafia defending Airline, that's what got me off the fence about Wolf.
I was trying to avoid saying that at the time, but since you Townspeople are about to throw me under the bus I don't give two shits about y'all or if you win.
considering your defensiveness at this point, and your lack of response to HGH's post(s) which call you out as DEFINITELY BEING MAFIA, i'd say we're not throwing an innocent victim under that bus
I did respond to Handgun's post, albeit indirectly:
Don't you think, if kdogg were mafia, it'd be PERFECT for him to kill bek, because he could claim the mafia was setting him up, because it would be TOO obvious for the mafia to kill someone who voted for them?
It's almost like she knew how she wanted to spin Bek's death... maybe because she had something to do with it?
, but definitely not number one. 
That wasn't my point, it was Kel's point. All I did was point out that your defense of Kel's accusation was illogical.