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If Higgi is innocent, I think Indigrainbow or Bacon are the ones we need to be looking at here. But I really don't think Higgi is innocent at this point.
Even though I took Bacon's advice on not letting MikeD be the deciding vote (which turned out not to matter due to effed up tallies & MikeD STILL got the deciding vote) his suggestion that I do so raised reg flags for me. MikeD voted Indi in round one. Me changing my vote from Indi to Wolf would have REALLY helped the Mafia in a Bacon, Indi, MikeD scenario. I have a nagging feeling that I have fallen into a trap set up by the Mafia. I am mad at myself for not thinking it out before....but I think an Indi run-off would have been more useful.
Since I can't do anything to change that now my vote stands with Wolf. When Kdogg IS actually innocent (which he may not be) he offers some good insight.
Explain this, Kdogg. You say "THEY'RE steering the vote away," and this is when I called you out for steering attention away from YOURSELF, which also led me to believe WOLF, because he was included in this runoff also.
Despite your adamant statistical rants, you still chose to vote me, with a WEAK justification - "I had the fewest votes, so I am likely to be mafia."
seriously? and you wonder why I have been all over you this game.
Furthermore, your rants on this page definitely make me think of the old Kdogg strategy...
Flood 'em with BS!
I do not think I had a weak justification. The Mafia had most likely voted in that situation. Given the choice among four players, it was clear the Mafia had no problem with at least one of the three vote leaders dying. There is an argument to be made that the Mafia did NOT, however, want to see Higgi die - or even advance in the runoff. Now, if the Mafia did not want to see you go... should it not logically follow that it would be in the best interests of a Townsperson to vote for you? I don't know whether you are innocent or guilty, I must confess... but I know that voting contrary to the Mafia's expressed desires is not - as you put it - a "weak justification" for a vote.
Let's flash back to a couple games ago. Jen was the Inspector; I was Mafia along with Higgi & Airline. At some point in one of the early rounds, it was brought up that people receiving zero votes were more likely to be suspicious. Inspector Jen thought that worthy of following up on. She asked about a player who had zero (the least) votes AND THEY TURNED OUT TO BE MAFIA! This is not "weak," this is a method which has proven itself to be successful. You know that it has worked against you in the past - is that why you're so actively trying to discredit this notion now?
Notice that I'm not just using this exclusively to hammer away at you. I suggested that Bacon should receive some scrutiny, as the only player in this game who has yet to receive a vote. I'm driven by the overall principle, not an anti-Higgi agenda.
If anyone's flooding this game with BS, it's you. How many times did you say Wolf & I are in cahoots? We would have had ample opportunity to steer the runoff towards other players, if we were working in tandem. Hell, on at least two occasions this game you suggested that all three Mafia were involved in this runoff. Just how stupid do you think we are?
If you want to be taken seriously, Higgins, you'll quit spouting BS about scenarios which are obviously impossible and/or such terrible strategy nobody would willingly resort to them. The fact that you haven't, and yet continue to push the same impossible/retarded scenarios, makes it quite apparent that you have no real desire to get to the bottom of the "who is Mafia?" issue.
I must shower and leave for work now. Won't be back until after midnight.
if you've been paying attention I haven't solely been "hammering" on you. I have also either suggested or agreed to the fact that INDI, BEK and WOLF could also be guilty.
Additionally, wouldn't it be fair to say the reason I didn't make it further in the runoff was because the other players, remember we are still playing with 11, thought YOU AND WOLF were more suspicious?!!?
I think the retarded thing to say is that three individuals [mafia] would even attempt to sway a vote the first round. That is basically just asking to be caught. ANd even furthermore, could they even do such a thing? I feel the townies are the ones who have fueled this outcome, not the mafia.
For the time being, Kdogg, I will agree to disagree. If you're guilty or not I don't know at this point. Bek's last minute save seems awfully, AWFULLLY convenient for you and something I will not dismiss. A very bold move at this juncture.
But there are three total mafia members, so I am going to focus on the bigger picture for now.
i would also like to welcome back the classic game of Mafia, the one where we all get pissed at each other, write unnecessarily long posts that most don't even read in full and where we remain on page seven during the first round. Da'gone, it's been a while since we've had a quality game like this ;D
Also- I am notorious in being persistent. Y'all haven't figured that out yet?!
I've done it to Hippie on quite a few occasions in the past, sometimes it works against me, which is possible now, I don't know, but once I see something that I feel is a tell tale sign, I won't let it go.. So that is why my persistence upon you, Kdogg, has been consistent.
But again, it has not solely been on you, it has been on the SITUATION that occurred, you pointed the finger at me first.
If Higgi is innocent, I think Indigrainbow or Bacon are the ones we need to be looking at here. But I really don't think Higgi is innocent at this point.
Even though I took Bacon's advice on not letting MikeD be the deciding vote (which turned out not to matter due to effed up tallies & MikeD STILL got the deciding vote) his suggestion that I do so raised reg flags for me. MikeD voted Indi in round one. Me changing my vote from Indi to Wolf would have REALLY helped the Mafia in a Bacon, Indi, MikeD scenario. I have a nagging feeling that I have fallen into a trap set up by the Mafia. I am mad at myself for not thinking it out before....but I think an Indi run-off would have been more useful.
Since I can't do anything to change that now my vote stands with Wolf. When Kdogg IS actually innocent (which he may not be) he offers some good insight.
See, its shit like this that gets to me. There seem to be more folks out there that would just take others advice on what to do then there own. Why would you still take bacons advice while it raises red flags to you in the first place? Moreover, why admit that after votes have been changed and changed and changed? and your worried about who is setting a trap for you? This seems like an odd move to me. I firmly believe we need to look at those who are still changing votes around. We still prolly have a couple more days of discussion on our votes anyway before our first round runoffs are over. From what I gather there are more folks that want to keep kdogg alive then vote for who they think is mafia??
So I made this argument, which I find to be entirely reasonable. I tried using all I have available to me - what happens in the thread - and Hippie was quick to say DUH! to me. Though she did it condescendingly, it still needs to be pointed out: Hippie agrees that the observations which form the foundation of my suspicion are legitimate. A word of warning to my fellow Townspeople: be wary that she recognizes this foundation, yet distrusts what is built upon it.
WTF are you even talking about? i have no clue what "observations" or "foundation" you are referring to that i agree with. please explain it further.
so either you're inspector trying to tell us something, or you're mafia and trying to steer attention another direction.
I find it that the first player to utter the I-word in conjunction with another player more often than not has sinister motives. Just sayin'.
i find it funny that you can't go an entire first round without pointing fingers at almost every person playing. the second someone may find you suspicious, you're quick to jump on the conspiracy theory bandwagon and come up with a reason why that person is guilty, without ever really disproving anyone's theories about you.
one of my biggest things with your last super long post, and what is STILL my problem with this one, is that you keep asserting that THREE mafia somehow steered EIGHT other people in the FIRST ROUND of play into voting for specific people. that's absolutely ridiculous. so your conclusions that higgi MUST be guilty because the majority of INNOCENTS didn't vote for him holds no water. now, for all i know higgi COULD be mafia...i'm in no position to say yes or no right now. but your logic as to why he's guilty for this specific reason is just retarded.
and yes, inspector, feel free to ask away about me if i actually live through the night. all it will reveal is that i'm innocent.
Quick detour - I find it necessary to issue a warning about Hippie with good reason:
I find it that the first player to utter the I-word in conjunction with another player more often than not has sinister motives. Just sayin'.
I could not agree with you more.
yeah, that doesn't surprise me. after higgi pointed out your lack of involvement it got me thinking that he's right about that part. the games where you are most quiet seem to be the ones you're mafia. and OF COURSE the second a finger gets pointed, you're willing to say i'm guilty too, but for no real reason.
now, what i am afraid of with what's going on now is that we are continually referencing past games to justify a lot of our theories (me included). and if we can't use past games to dictate who's mafia (re: higgi's situation this game), then why can we use it to dictate the reasons behind things now? just a thought.
For the time being, Kdogg, I will agree to disagree. If you're guilty or not I don't know at this point. Bek's last minute save seems awfully, AWFULLLY convenient for you and something I will not dismiss. A very bold move at this juncture.
Quite interested to see who will die tonight. ???
If I was working with kdogg, would I plea to the inspector to inquire about him tonight? If I was mafia and he was innocent, would I have changed my vote in hopes of keeping him alive for at least one more night?
c'mon higgi, don't be stoopid at roo.... corncat loves you.
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 4, 2010 14:33:06 GMT -5
all is fair in love and mafia. the whole point of the game is to lie, lie, lie if you have to. so it's extremely possible you'd have done both things. it's also possible you're completely innocent. therein lies the rub...
Additionally, wouldn't it be fair to say the reason I didn't make it further in the runoff was because the other players, remember we are still playing with 11, thought YOU AND WOLF were more suspicious?!!?
I think the retarded thing to say is that three individuals [mafia] would even attempt to sway a vote the first round. That is basically just asking to be caught. ANd even furthermore, could they even do such a thing? I feel the townies are the ones who have fueled this outcome, not the mafia.
one of my biggest things with your last super long post, and what is STILL my problem with this one, is that you keep asserting that THREE mafia somehow steered EIGHT other people in the FIRST ROUND of play into voting for specific people. that's absolutely ridiculous. so your conclusions that higgi MUST be guilty because the majority of INNOCENTS didn't vote for him holds no water. now, for all i know higgi COULD be mafia...i'm in no position to say yes or no right now. but your logic as to why he's guilty for this specific reason is just retarded.
For the time being, Kdogg, I will agree to disagree. If you're guilty or not I don't know at this point. Bek's last minute save seems awfully, AWFULLLY convenient for you and something I will not dismiss. A very bold move at this juncture.
Quite interested to see who will die tonight. ???
If I was working with kdogg, would I plea to the inspector to inquire about him tonight? If I was mafia and he was innocent, would I have changed my vote in hopes of keeping him alive for at least one more night?
c'mon higgi, don't be stoopid at roo.... corncat loves you.
good point, but far from stupid. you would do the same thing, he's on the brink of death and after he literally ASKS you to save him, you come out of nowhere and do so??
Yea, not something i'm going to overlook.
I mean, I told the inspector to ask about me, so I am 100% innocent too, right?
yeah, that doesn't surprise me. after higgi pointed out your lack of involvement it got me thinking that he's right about that part. the games where you are most quiet seem to be the ones you're mafia. and OF COURSE the second a finger gets pointed, you're willing to say i'm guilty too, but for no real reason.
now, what i am afraid of with what's going on now is that we are continually referencing past games to justify a lot of our theories (me included). and if we can't use past games to dictate who's mafia (re: higgi's situation this game), then why can we use it to dictate the reasons behind things now? just a thought.
The reason I was quiet was because there was like 3 pages of statistics debate and I (like higgi) am not the strongest math person partially because I am a woman and we are just not very logical thinkers. Not fault of our own, just truth. Also, it was DAY ONE for crying out loud.
Another note worth mentioning is that kdogg reveled in the fact that I was killed off first last game and believe me, a part of me would love for that to happen to him BUT I just think it is a bad idea. I really just hope the inspector asks about him.
Also, I wasn't necessarily saying YOU were guilty but I agree with kdogg that a townsperson (especially a vet) who even suggests that someone else is the inspector is going to raise a few eyebrows... just sayin'.
Just so ya know, IF kdogg and myself are ever mafia together, you guys are all going down.
yeah, that doesn't surprise me. after higgi pointed out your lack of involvement it got me thinking that he's right about that part. the games where you are most quiet seem to be the ones you're mafia. and OF COURSE the second a finger gets pointed, you're willing to say i'm guilty too, but for no real reason.
now, what i am afraid of with what's going on now is that we are continually referencing past games to justify a lot of our theories (me included). and if we can't use past games to dictate who's mafia (re: higgi's situation this game), then why can we use it to dictate the reasons behind things now? just a thought.
The reason I was quiet was because there was like 3 pages of statistics debate and I (like higgi) am not the strongest math person partially because I am a woman and we are just not very logical thinkers. Not fault of our own, just truth. Also, it was DAY ONE for crying out loud.
Another note worth mentioning is that kdogg reveled in the fact that I was killed off first last game and believe me, a part of me would love for that to happen to him BUT I just think it is a bad idea. I really just hope the inspector asks about him.
Also, I wasn't necessarily saying YOU were guilty but I agree with kdogg that a townsperson (especially a vet) who even suggests that someone else is the inspector is going to raise a few eyebrows... just sayin'.
Just so ya know, IF kdogg and myself are ever mafia together, you guys are all going down.
you weren't necessarily saying you didn't think i was guilty either, considering kdogg's retort was obviously pointed in my direction. and as for the "suggestion" of kdogg being inspector...if we're looking at vets suggesting anything, maybe you should focus on kdogg a little more. he's "suggested" that just about everyone in this game is guilty. and he also "suggested" that bacon may be inspector, and to ask about people. so why aren't you relating kdogg's own point to his own actions?
good point, but far from stupid. you would do the same thing, he's on the brink of death and after he literally ASKS you to save him, you come out of nowhere and do so??
Did he? I didn't even see that part, I can never read his entire posts w/o getting bored. (wordy, perhaps? maybe, just a little?)
You people kill me (literally sometimes). I vote for kdogg and you heckle me, I vote for wolf and you give me hell, too. Honestly I feel like either way I go will somehow help the mafia as they usually have the upper hand and can stack votes the first round. When was the last time any of you remember a mafioso being offed in the first round? (care to look it up superkel?)
Truth be told, they are probably both innocent... and that's real talk.
so why aren't you relating kdogg's own point to his own actions?
because I don't have to.... you just did.
Look man, I ain't working with nobody so ya'll just need to get it out of here. You hound people for being quiet and when they voice their opinion, you slap 'em in the face.
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 4, 2010 15:12:27 GMT -5
i can remember when i was a mafia person a couple times where we had to kill off one of our own in the first round daytime voting because they screwed up and we had to throw them under the bus. and if it's happened at least twice for me, how do you know it hasn't happened like that for several other people in different games? you asked the question...you find the statistics to back up your own inquiries. it's not kel's job.
so why aren't you relating kdogg's own point to his own actions?
because I don't have to.... you just did.
Look man, I ain't working with nobody so ya'll just need to get it out of here. You hound people for being quiet and when they voice their opinion, you slap 'em in the face.
JEEZ!!!! WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE WANT FROM ME??
you're right, i just did what you weren't willing to do. which is why i think you're highly suspicious at this point. you're throwing around all these what ifs and expecting other people to disprove you. the burden of proof is on you, my friend.
and what i want from you is a good hard slap on the ass ;D
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 4, 2010 16:00:43 GMT -5
ok, so i guess i'm confused why suggesting someone is inspector is even suspicious? or at least how it's any more suspicious than someone suggesting several people's guilt.
edit: not to mention i never again even mentioned or alluded to kdogg being inspector at all. it's not like i'm building a case for him to be inspector, so again, i guess i'm just confused as to the implication.
I meant that I just hadn't realized that but you pointed it out.... sheesh.
Mafia: please feel free to kill me tonight and get me out of this shithole 7 page day one game.
Playing a devils advocate here I guess, but what do you expect when you know its a long first day to begin with, then change a vote after everyone else has voted in a final runoff; plus we constantly abuse the 36 hour rule due to peoples work schedules and not wanting to post by phone and whatnot? I have a good feeling that this will be my last game here for a while.
Mike! Don't let this game run you off! This is a perfect example of what a classic game of Mafia should be. Long-winded arguments and discussions and people getting pissed off haha.
This is the kind of game we've been missing - one where we have some serious participation!!
good point, but far from stupid. you would do the same thing, he's on the brink of death and after he literally ASKS you to save him, you come out of nowhere and do so??
Did he? I didn't even see that part, I can never read his entire posts w/o getting bored. (wordy, perhaps? maybe, just a little?)
You people kill me (literally sometimes). I vote for kdogg and you heckle me, I vote for wolf and you give me hell, too. Honestly I feel like either way I go will somehow help the mafia as they usually have the upper hand and can stack votes the first round. When was the last time any of you remember a mafioso being offed in the first round? (care to look it up superkel?)
Truth be told, they are probably both innocent... and that's real talk.
hahaha superkel. superbek- i'd never steal your name.
bek- I suggest you asking your partner kdogg to make another stats on this. I didn't make it I just re-posted it.
I do find you changing your vote to save kdogg extremely fishy esp a posting this less than 24 hours ago. Why the change of heart? maybe to save Kdogg?
For the time being, Kdogg, I will agree to disagree. If you're guilty or not I don't know at this point. Bek's last minute save seems awfully, AWFULLLY convenient for you and something I will not dismiss. A very bold move at this juncture.
Quite interested to see who will die tonight. ???
If I was working with kdogg, would I plea to the inspector to inquire about him tonight? If I was mafia and he was innocent, would I have changed my vote in hopes of keeping him alive for at least one more night?
c'mon higgi, don't be stoopid at roo.... corncat loves you.
You would tell the inspector to ask and when they say he is Mafia your plan would be to call the inspector out as mafia! We all know that has happened and Mafia has won because of it. ( and no I am not getting stats on it)
I don't think you're mafia and he's innocent. I think you two are working TOGETHER!
;D
