Whether it's your first Bonnaroo or you’re a music festival veteran, we welcome you to Inforoo.
Here you'll find info about artists, rumors, camping tips, and the infamous Roo Clues. Have a look around then create an account and join in the fun. See you at Bonnaroo!!
Im sorry but to me this makes ZERO sense. I have always payed more attention to Kdogg than any other mafia player, since my first or second game when someone mentioned that he was better than everybody else. I figured if he is the best I should try to learn as much as I can from him.
One thing I could never, ever see him doing is approving the mafia to kill one of its own on night 1. Especially in a game like this where there is a ton of confusion. I just don't buy it at all.
I think more likely Kdogg's death proves that all three Wolf, Kdogg and Higgi are innocent. I believe that the mafia killed Kdogg in order to make Wolf and/ or Higgi look guilty.
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 5, 2010 14:24:17 GMT -5
ok, so if i tell you that i'm better than kdogg (which i obviously am), then will you pay more attention to me? ??? ???
bacon, i assure that kdogg is NOT the only person who is really good at playing this game. i have won almost every game in which i was mafia(a lot of those in which kdogg was completely outsmarted). it's all a head game, and you're letting kdogg get into yours.
kdogg's death doesn't indicate ANYONE'S guilt to me. in fact, it makes it apparent to me that kdogg really was guilty. yes, it is a bold move to kill one of your own in the first night. the result of which would be to make the townspeople think just like you are. you are feeding right into their plan.
from the mafia's standpoint, kdogg would have been worth more ALIVE than DEAD. the point is to make the townspeople vote off as many of their own as possible, right? so why would the mafia kill an innocent who was so obviously going to be one of the very next in line to die by the hands of his own??? THAT is what doesn't make sense.
please re-read all my posts about this theory, and then tell me which parts exactly are so unbelievable and why. i assure you i am not trying to lead you down the wrong path...i am simply trying to keep you from falling straight into the mafia's manipulative trap.
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 5, 2010 14:30:13 GMT -5
kdogg...sorry to throw the book at you, but you don't get to talk about your role or the game once you're dead. you don't get a postmortem plea.
"8) AKA The Bek Rule: Players who have been eliminated are still welcome to post in this thread, but are asked to not say anything leading to any knowledge, suspicions or opinions you might have."
One thing I could never, ever see him doing is approving the mafia to kill one of its own on night 1. Especially in a game like this where there is a ton of confusion. I just don't buy it at all.
I think more likely Kdogg's death proves that all three Wolf, Kdogg and Higgi are innocent. I believe that the mafia killed Kdogg in order to make Wolf and/ or Higgi look guilty.
1. I'm sure this is EXACTLY what they want you to think. 2. You don't think this is a desperate attempt to make BEK look guilty? 3. I was so adamant that Kdogg should be voted off, I basically started the movement against him, b/c I was/am confident he is Mafia - if it is an attempt to make ME look guilty it is a very, very feeble one.
kdogg...sorry to throw the book at you, but you don't get to talk about your role or the game once you're dead. you don't get a postmortem plea.
"8) AKA The Bek Rule: Players who have been eliminated are still welcome to post in this thread, but are asked to not say anything leading to any knowledge, suspicions or opinions you might have."
in the spirit of staying classy, i ask you to remove that sentence kdogg. the picture can stay.
I am sorry but I DO NOT BUY IT. I am not even implying you are guilty Hippie I just think you are over thinking what is going on.
BTW I am not saying Kdogg is a better or worse player than anyone I just decided to pay attention to him after a few people called him one of the best when I was a noob.
Something about the style of Wolf’s posts are reminiscent of the times I have been Mafia with him and Kdogg.
This first reason seems based on a hunch, which a lot of this game is about. I have no problem with this, because you have to go on something in the first round.
He was null and then received a life threatening text from Ref EAP saying he needed to vote. He returned to see that Wolf was all but dead, so to again try to disprove any connections between the two of them, he jumped on the bandwagon and voted Wolf.
I am leaning toward this even though I am not big on trusting Higgi…..but it makes a lot of sense to right now….more so than anything else that is being presented. But now that I read NTRT’s post that Wolf was not quite a goner I am a bit skeptical. Still Higgi’s justification is spot on!
But this second reason is odd for a couple of reasons: 1. she admits that higgi's justification is based on a faulty premise (that kdogg was not leading the vote count at that point), and then she doesn't seem to care. 2. more importantly, for wolf to be guilty in this scenario, kdogg has to be considered guilty first. So she obviously thinks they're both guilty, and instead of voting for them into a runoff with each other, as she had already said she was going to do, she says this:
You are right. I don't know MikeD's role but I DO know mine and know that I am not Mafia. I'm fine with keeping my vote with Indi and letting Wolf die. On second though....I'll just go balls out and vote Wolf. A vote for Indi would kill Wolf anyway.
So she reverses her first statement based mostly on the theory that kdogg and wolf were working together. They're both dead, so I think we know now that they couldn't both have been guilty -- mafia's not killing one of their own in the first round if another one was just voted off.
But based on the theory she was using, wolf could only be guilty if kdogg was guilty. If kdogg was innocent then the theory would fall apart, and there would be no reason to suspect wolf, so the obvious person to go after is kdogg, right? But instead of voting for kdogg to put them into a tie, she gives wolf the vote lead?
So she reverses her first statement based mostly on the theory that kdogg and wolf were working together. They're both dead, so I think we know now that they couldn't both have been guilty -- mafia's not killing one of their own in the first round if another one was just voted off.
But based on the theory she was using, wolf could only be guilty if kdogg was guilty. If kdogg was innocent then the theory would fall apart, and there would be no reason to suspect wolf, so the obvious person to go after is kdogg, right? But instead of voting for kdogg to put them into a tie, she gives wolf the vote lead?
Since I can't vote for kdogg
ntrt >>> Jen
ntrt...i'm going to have to re-read all that a couple times, but i think you're on to something as well. if anything, i feel your conclusions here feed right into my theory.
like you said...if kdogg was innocent, then wolf would have to be innocent, according to her theory. since wolf was voted off first, and kdogg killed overnight, the mafia is trying to make us believe that they were BOTH innocent, which i do not believe they are. i think they needed wolf to die first to implicate kdogg's innocence.
it also makes my suspicions of bek stick around. i'm very hot and cold on this one, but bek saved kdogg at the last minute. maybe because they realized they would have to kill kdogg overnight to throw us off? don't know, but it's a possibility.
at this point i'm just going to wait for everyone to respond before voting.
it also makes my suspicions of bek stick around. i'm very hot and cold on this one, but bek saved kdogg at the last minute. maybe because they realized they would have to kill kdogg overnight to throw us off? don't know, but it's a possibility.
Can you explain this part a little more? Why do you say they would save kdogg if they just planned to kill him?
it also makes my suspicions of bek stick around. i'm very hot and cold on this one, but bek saved kdogg at the last minute. maybe because they realized they would have to kill kdogg overnight to throw us off? don't know, but it's a possibility.
Can you explain this part a little more? Why do you say they would save kdogg if they just planned to kill him?
if someone is killed overnight, they are generally considered innocent, correct? working on my assumption that kdogg really was mafia, and this was a ploy to throw us off, that would mean that to convince people kdogg was innocent he would have to die overnight, as opposed to during the day. day votes can never really be determined as right or wrong the way an overnight kill generally is. i just think in this case that the mafia is going balls out first round because we were getting too close too fast.
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 5, 2010 15:21:14 GMT -5
i'll add that the reason i'm hot and cold on bek being guilty is that i do see her as one of the better players of this game, and the move to save kdogg last minute seems a bit sloppy for her style.
Post by nitetimeritetime on Aug 5, 2010 15:30:58 GMT -5
Oh wait, I see. She saves him, making them both look guilty, then they kill him, making him look innocent. If we think he's innocent, then we think she couldn't have been working with him -- throwing all of us off her trail.
I just removed NTRT's long quote to make this easier to read....just know the top part of this post is to NTRT the bottom is to everyone else....but mainly Hippie.
Ok. My first post that you quoted was written when I first began reading....a lot changed over the course of three pages. I was making comments as I read without knowing the outcome on the last page. That is what the first statement was about. When I said I would change me Indo vote to make a run-off all I knew at that point was what I had read on page 3 (I think). Basically, like I said in my post, I was taking notes while I was reading and writing whatever popped into my mind while I was going through those pages. At the end I posted the whole thing.
It did make sense to me at that point that the scenario Higgi presented was very plausible. Yes, it was on faulty premise but I had no reason to change my vote to Kdogg or back to Indi. Wolf's style of posts did sound similar to the ones he made when he was Mafia with me. Just because I thought Higgi's idea sounded plausible does not mean I would rule out his guilt. Like I said, I am wary of trusting anything Higgi says. Yes, that scenario would have to mean that Wolf and Kdogg were both guilty but no one else was sticking out in my mind at that point. I did not want to switch my vote to Kdogg because I'd rather keep him alive in case he WAS innocent. It is not that I don't value Wolf as a player, because he's awesome , but I feel like keeping Kdogg around can be very telling.
A little later I became a bit suspicious of Bacon.
A lot of things have changed since then and I am not exactly sure who I think is guilty but I do know that I still stand behind my vote for Wolf over Kdogg....it doesn't neceassrily mean I am pushing his guilt. I was suggesting a hunch I had but I am not so sure of it that I am going to push the idea that he was 100% Mafia.
Maybe I am a wishy washy townsperson and will "keep reversing" myself but I'm not able to make a decision and stay 100% convicted about it as I hear new things. I might say one thing and change my mind later when I hear someone else's thoughts.
New subject: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When I read the Mafia kill I was very surprised and I think that was their goal.
Hippie, I might be on board with your theory because it makes a lot of sense to me. Unlike Bacon, I do not think that it such an unlikely move. I've been Mafia enough times with Kdogg to know he is very open to original and risky moves. If he was Mafia and they did indeed make the bold move of killing him off early my suspisions would lie with whomever was placing themselves the farthest away from the idea which right now seems like Bacon. My first instinct is to think you [Hippie] are guilty for pushing this theory but it seems too obvious so for now I'll give you a break.
I could totally take the safe route and vote ntrt right now since he voted me but I feel like it would be counterproductive since he was nowhere on my radar before his post.
good point, but far from stupid. you would do the same thing, he's on the brink of death and after he literally ASKS you to save him, you come out of nowhere and do so??
Did he? I didn't even see that part, I can never read his entire posts w/o getting bored. (wordy, perhaps? maybe, just a little?)
I feel the correlation between Bek's vote to save Kdogg and his death, needs to be addressed.
Last round she saved him last minute after Kdogg brought up an unspoken agreement in which Kdogg saved Bek in a similar situation in a previous game.
BUT- the thing is after I brought that up Bek claimed she hadn't seen that comment by Kdogg, which would imply that she saved him on her own free will.
This strikes me as odd, because if she was doing it on her own free will, why did she change?! Her vote change put WOLF to death and SAVED Kdogg - I could possibly understand this if she was following Kdogg's plead, but she said that she didn't even see that comment!
Then she uses the fact that Kdogg's posts can be a little "wordy," which we can all agree on. But I at least scan them if not read them in their entirety, so to miss some IMPERATIVE information like that, seems slightly far fetched.
So did she save him only to kill him at night? or Did the mafia kill him in attempts of making her look guilty?
Assuming Kdogg is guilty I think these are the two options we would have:
Bacon and Kdogg and #3 (possibly Bek based on Hippie's theory) concoct a plan to kill Kdogg off to make him look innocent. The townies don't buy it....especially Hippie. Bacon is getting himself on record that he thinks this is the stupidest thing he heard since he found out KOL was playing Roo. Basically he is making sure that everyone know he things the Mafia would never vote their own off that early.
or
Hippe, Kdogg, and 3# (no clue) concoct this plan....but Hippie suggests it. Hippie is accusing Kdogg of being Mafia which put her very far away from him.
or
I suck a townsperson and should keep my mouth shut.
I think if either of these stand a chance of being true then whichever one looks the most obvious is the one we should throw out. I chose the Bacon scenario of being the least obvious because the Hippie one is the one I thought of first....so to me it was the most obvious.
Did he? I didn't even see that part, I can never read his entire posts w/o getting bored. (wordy, perhaps? maybe, just a little?)
Then she uses the fact that Kdogg's posts can be a little "wordy," which we can all agree on. But I at least scan them if not read them in their entirety, so to miss some IMPERATIVE information like that, seems slightly far fetched.
So did she save him only to kill him at night? or Did the mafia kill him in attempts of making her look guilty?
edit for wording.
I would assume that Bek would be the most likely to read his long winded posts thoroughly.....not sure why.
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 5, 2010 16:21:38 GMT -5
well, i'll state again that i am very much a townsperson. i would think it would be to my detriment to be so outspoken if i were mafia, but i suppose it could work both ways. in any case, i AM innocent...swear it on my original copy of Abbey Road on vinyl.
to be honest, i was really hoping for a way to change my vote to kdogg in the last runoff without making myself seem shady, as i was leaning more towards kdogg's guilt than wolf's anyway. however, in the end it's still the very first round, so to be sure of anyone's status is a tough call regardless. i also figured that the overnight kill would give us more of an idea as to who the mafia really were than anything else, and in my opinion it did. it's more or less solidified my thoughts that kdogg is guilty. i'm sorry, but i don't believe that all three mafia players believed that it would be the BEST idea to kill kdogg when they could have easily have gotten the townies to kill him off in the next round.
Post by GratefulHippie on Aug 5, 2010 18:09:52 GMT -5
excuse me? first of all, you're the one who's cheating, so i'm not sure why you're the one who's angry. and ftr, you know striking through it does not mean it's been erased.
second, this was my PM to EAP:
"kdogg's post under the "omg they killed kdogg" pic is completely against the rules. rule number 8 specifically talks about it. you CANNOT refer to anything regarding your role or opinions of the game after you're dead, which is exactly what he's doing. i would expect as a fair ref you will address this and make sure it doesn't happen again.
thanks "
and this is what i got back:
"i already did it
no matter how much i don't like you, i will stay impartial in my role as ref. "
, but I feel like keeping Kdogg around can be very telling.
???