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We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
NBF, how about I voted for LLL because I found myself in the situation of everyone having a voting partner, I was the one who would give someone two votes, so I did what I have done the past games I have played, "Why break tradition?" and voted for LLL. The more LD talked and the coin flip and all, the more and more he seemed like Mafia. Then he voted for himself. I also agree with MikeD's reasoning and deduction. I do not see MikeD as Mafia(at least not 3 times in a row), but I can see how the votes were split and no Mafia voting for LD that last round. If LD is Mafia that makes you and Dubbits Mafia and that is the way I think we should go. Not sure about Dubbits, but NBF I now believe you are Mafia and the more you talk the more I see it.
I think that adding too many to a run-off is a bad idea for townspeople. If I were Mafia, I would be asking for a few more to be added though.
I think the general consensus is that early on, having more people in the runoff is helpful because you see more of which way people's votes go. Maybe four is not necessary, but I think this early, it's good to at least have three.
And I don't know what your deal is with being so okay with getting voted off early on this game, but I like my chances better if there are more people in the runoff. That doesn't make me mafia. It just means I want to keep the one person I know is innocent in the game.
NBF, how about I voted for LLL because I found myself in the situation of everyone having a voting partner, I was the one who would give someone two votes, so I did what I have done the past games I have played, "Why break tradition?" and voted for LLL. The more LD talked and the coin flip and all, the more and more he seemed like Mafia. Then he voted for himself. I also agree with MikeD's reasoning and deduction. I do not see MikeD as Mafia(at least not 3 times in a row), but I can see how the votes were split and no Mafia voting for LD that last round. If LD is Mafia that makes you and Dubbits Mafia and that is the way I think we should go. Not sure about Dubbits, but NBF I now believe you are Mafia and the more you talk the more I see it.
I get that it seems unlikely that he's mafia three games in a row, but I wouldn't count it out. I'm not saying Mike D is mafia, but I'm saying his whole logic was based on LD being mafia, and I'm not convinced that LD was mafia. I'm sorry that my talking makes you think I'm mafia, but I'm not inclined to just agree with someone in this game ever, and I'm sure not going to agree with someone who is pointing fingers at me.
I can see MikeD's reasoning but I'm also not convinced that LLL is innocent. Both NBF and LLL seem suspicious and I certainly would not rule out MikeD himself. I think I'm going to leave my vote asis and see what happens if we have a runoff with NBF and LLL because I think that we will have a chance to vote off a Mafia this way. I just hope we can get it right.
Post by LoveLuckLaughter on Sept 13, 2011 20:47:09 GMT -5
My concern with the having more people in a runoff is this: The chances of having 2 Mafia in a 3 person run-off isn't nearly as likely as having 2 townspeople and 1 Mafia, or even 3 townspeople. It's too easy for Mafia to hide behind those odds.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
Post by krunchykat on Sept 13, 2011 23:09:23 GMT -5
The more people we have in a runoff the better chance we have of getting a mafia in it. I'm willing to change my vote to get a third person into the runoff but I'm not quite sure yet who I'd pick.
Well, I'm not closing voting at 5am CST and it seems discussion is still going on. I'll hang back and see how things play out during the workday. I'll set a deadline then.
The more people we have in a runoff the better chance we have of getting a mafia in it. I'm willing to change my vote to get a third person into the runoff but I'm not quite sure yet who I'd pick.
I'm not sure this is the right way to go. Listening for advice and willing to change my perspective if 3 is the way to go. I get what NBF was saying last round but what if the runoff votes get split unrecognizably again because it's a 3-way race. We'll be in the same boat. Maybe 2 is the way to go this time?
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
KK, you were asking who to vote for? I am not 100% sure, but I see LD as being the most Mafia-like, maybe it was newbie, or frustration, but he showed a lot of Mafia/guilty characteristics, at least to me he did, but I also pushed hard to vote off the inspector last game, so my maf-adar is not always correct. So if you believe LD was Mafia, like I do, I was thinking what MikeD said. If you believe this, then I would follow what MikeD was saying and that would mean a vote for Dubbits. If you do not think LD is Mafia, then vote for me or who ever you think is Mafia.
I would suggest the three-way to be LLL, Dubbits and NBF. Thoughts?
I figured someone would have started doubling up votes by now, I hope someone else does. Still not a whole lot to go on, but my first thought was to look at non-Noage voters as the mafia would want to avoid killing someone tied to em/voted for by mafia, but that is everyone but me.
If LLL is mafia, it also points to Scrog who was the first to change a vote in the last runoff, then LD followed and "gave up" so to speak. It seems to me that once someone does this, they are more often mafia than not, at least in the past few games. This leads me to believe that Scrog and LLL are both innocent. This leaves:
EAP NBF Mike D Quacker Mr. Belgian Manders Duddits krunchykat
Take out the LD voters and this leaves
NBF Mike D Duddits
I would figure that if LD was mafia that only 1-2 would vote for him. I know I am a townie and this leaves NBF and Duddits. I feel our best chances at getting a mafia this round are between these two and would encourage a runoff including at least these two players.
Mike D >> NBF
This logic works out to an extent, however simply because I didn't vote for LD in the runoff does not indicate that I would be mafia. My first vote was for my voting partner LLL, moments after she voted for me (as per our agreement for voting partners). After that I was put into the runoff by NBF. I read what LLL was posting, as well as what LD was posting, and neither seemed more suspicous over the other, so I kept my vote the same throughout the runoffs for LLL. I figured if I changed my vote half way through the runoff for no strong reason it may cause weariness in the eyes of my fellow townies. Was LD mafia? I have no idea. I agree it was weird that he voted for himself.
This round I voted for LLL again because in all honesty I didn't see anyone else that stood out from the rest. Scrog maybe for the last minute vote change, but thats about it (and again thats not enough for me to think he's mafia over LLL, or any of the quieter players for that matter). So again I decided to go with my voting partner while things pan out.
KK, you were asking who to vote for? I am not 100% sure, but I see LD as being the most Mafia-like, maybe it was newbie, or frustration, but he showed a lot of Mafia/guilty characteristics, at least to me he did, but I also pushed hard to vote off the inspector last game, so my maf-adar is not always correct. So if you believe LD was Mafia, like I do, I was thinking what MikeD said. If you believe this, then I would follow what MikeD was saying and that would mean a vote for Dubbits. If you do not think LD is Mafia, then vote for me or who ever you think is Mafia.
I would suggest the three-way to be LLL, Dubbits and NBF. Thoughts?
If LD was mafia I would agree with this line of thinking. But I'm not sure that LD was in fact mafia. Would mafia resort to video posts? I do believe it helped make him look guilty but that doesn't necessarily mean he was. If he was mafia then his actions were really bold.
If LD was not mafia then things get a bit more sketchy. How much weight is normally put on the first mafia whack? I'm not sure how how I should interpret it. Noage was the first whack and the only thing he did was vote for LLL. That could mean that LLL is mafia and it was a retaliation hit or that LLL is not mafia and noage was killed to wrongfully direct attention to her. Or it could mean someone thought he was inspector, although I'm not sure how anyone could have come to that conclusion.
So if LLL is mafia I think that would also point to you being mafia since you changed your vote and kept LLL from being voted off.
fuck I don't really know. There's still not that much to go on. I do still think that a three-way runoff is the best idea, but I'm new to this so my reasoning for this could be wrong. I think if we had a three-way we may be able to better judge who mafia is.
If there is a three-way I think it should be LLL, Duddits and Scrog. That way we are getting someone involved in every angle, therefore increasing our chances of nabbing a mafia member.
OK, looks like you guys are still talking. I'm meeting some inforooers for dinner and will probable get home at around 11 EST. Unless something major is happening I will close voting and start the runoff then.
KK, you were asking who to vote for? I am not 100% sure, but I see LD as being the most Mafia-like, maybe it was newbie, or frustration, but he showed a lot of Mafia/guilty characteristics, at least to me he did, but I also pushed hard to vote off the inspector last game, so my maf-adar is not always correct. So if you believe LD was Mafia, like I do, I was thinking what MikeD said. If you believe this, then I would follow what MikeD was saying and that would mean a vote for Dubbits. If you do not think LD is Mafia, then vote for me or who ever you think is Mafia.
I would suggest the three-way to be LLL, Dubbits and NBF. Thoughts?
If LD was mafia I would agree with this line of thinking. But I'm not sure that LD was in fact mafia. Would mafia resort to video posts? I do believe it helped make him look guilty but that doesn't necessarily mean he was. If he was mafia then his actions were really bold.
If LD was not mafia then things get a bit more sketchy. How much weight is normally put on the first mafia whack? I'm not sure how how I should interpret it. Noage was the first whack and the only thing he did was vote for LLL. That could mean that LLL is mafia and it was a retaliation hit or that LLL is not mafia and noage was killed to wrongfully direct attention to her. Or it could mean someone thought he was inspector, although I'm not sure how anyone could have come to that conclusion.
So if LLL is mafia I think that would also point to you being mafia since you changed your vote and kept LLL from being voted off.
quack I don't really know. There's still not that much to go on. I do still think that a three-way runoff is the best idea, but I'm new to this so my reasoning for this could be wrong. I think if we had a three-way we may be able to better judge who mafia is.
If there is a three-way I think it should be LLL, Duddits and Scrog. That way we are getting someone involved in every angle, therefore increasing our chances of nabbing a mafia member.
Okay, as a Mafia player I would not be so bold and obvious to change my vote for my so-called-mafia partner LLL at the last minute. I was coin flipping and voting my Mafia partner off the first game I played to distance myself from him. I would not be that stupid to link myself to my so-called-Mafia partner. If people believe that, LL and I are Mafia, then put us both in a two-way run-off. I am not 100% sure she is townie, but I know I am.
I have no problem being in the run-off, but I ask that NBF be there instead of Dubbits? and just to stroke my curiosity, Why did you chose Dubbits over NBF?
Noage was the first whack and the only thing he did was vote for LLL. That could mean that LLL is mafia and it was a retaliation hit or that LLL is not mafia and noage was killed to wrongfully direct attention to her.
This is exactly what I meant with my statement above. I've been waiting to see who pointed this out first because I suspected Mafia was going to use it as ammo.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
krunchykat, I'm leaning towards thinking that LD wasn't mafia. I get the feeling that he got frustrated and just bugged out.
It looks like some ppl are looking to put 3 into the runoff. I'm not sure that's the way to go but if we do it should probably be Scrog, NBF and LLL. My reasoning for this is Scrog's late vote switch to LD. I certainly don't know if he's Mafia or not but his move is one of the few "huh?" things that have happened so far. Another is the noage hit. I didn't see that one coming and I'm still trying to figure that out. I'm going to change my vote to Scrog as he has no votes yet. If anyone feels inclined to put him in the runoff they will be able to do it with a single vote as things stand right now.
Post by krunchykat on Sept 14, 2011 20:22:32 GMT -5
I chose Duddits over NBF because I had mistakenly thought that he already had 2 votes instead of 1. After reviewing the vote count I see what I did. I think I need to keep notes so my burned out brain doesn't get confused. ;D
i wish we had a running tally on this page. i am so confused. you guys always start slinging so much mud the first round.
for what i remember, it is unfortunately rare i think to actually get a mafia member in the first round. no one can no what anyone is at this point, unless they are mafia or the inspector. try not to read too much into everyone's first round vote except perhaps in the runoff.
i am willing to change my vote once i have an updated tally so we can get on more in the run-off if needed.
also for the record (and to clarify to the newbies) you can be mafia 1000x in a row. it is all up to "chance". do not let that sway who is mafia and who is not.
Quacker, was there anybody else that appeared more Mafia like than LD? If so who? I changed my vote because, like I said, the more he talked the more Mafia like he was. The coin flip? Was that really a coin-flip to chose between the other two in the run-off or was it a way to validate him voting for LLL and not his Mafia partner? Maybe I am stretching with my accusations toward LD and who is Mafia with him, but I do not see a vote change by me, even if it was at the last minute, as a "huh" moment, when I changed my vote. All I ask of the townines is if we make it a three-way and you decide to put me in it, do not put two more townines in the run-off, chose Mafia. Which we have no way of knowing who that maybe, but I think are NBF and Dubbits(due to voting last round) are the most likely. Again, as a Mafia player I would not connect myself to LLL, a fellow Mafia, in such a blatant way. I would have tried to distance myself and keep my vote for her. Look at my first game when I was voting Jham off, when I used the "coin flip". And that is why I think LD is Mafia, with his coin-flip, because I already did that when I was Mafia. EAP you are correct MikeD can be Mafia 3X in a row, but odds are against him. That is is "my" way of thinking. I could be wrong, but does someone else have a better idea of who Mafia might be?
Post by LoveLuckLaughter on Sept 14, 2011 21:16:56 GMT -5
The more people in a run-off, the less you can see Mafia stacking votes because they can distribute them more evenly across the board. This allows them to obscurely stack onto the townspeople in the runoff, and it makes it more likely that 1)a townsperson gets voted off during the first run-off 2) They send two townspeople into the second runoff thus completely saving their own.
The fact that EAP has suddenly changed her position on this matter is suspicious to me. Only Mafia benefits from more people in a run-off. EAP and NBF are pushing mighty hard for adding more to the run-off, as is KK.
dude you are so way off base you don't even know. but all i can is if you stay alive i feel like you are just going to confuse the hell out of people.
FM. i don't know why you keep posting directly after me. i don't like it. i don't want to be associated with anyone in the game and i think it's weird.
scrog, i stand by what i say. why would i draw attention to my vote if i was mafia. i would just quietly vote for you and let you die off. SFA was right, a shitton of people in a runoff shows you nothing b/c the votes can be spread too thin to gleam anything. i simply did not want to add another person into the runoff. if i was mafia, i would have done it willingly b/c it would have INCREASED my odds of killing an innocent!! i don't even think you know what you are talking about.
EAP>>>scrog
^^^^^ Suddenly she wants to add another name to the run-off? To protect someone who is currently in the run-off maybe?
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
Scrog, you're probably right in that nobody appeared more Mafia-like than LD in the first round but my point is that it was that's like saying that Patton is more patriotic than Eisenhauer. I just think it was kind of contrived but I also know that you like to "stir things up" in your playing style and you're not shy when it come to confronting people. It seemed to me that you picked on a non-conventional approach to a vote and went off like the Salem witch trials. I do have to say that there was not a lot to go on but you jump on some things like a pit bull. Unfortunately, that gives me no clue as to whether you are Mafia or not. I know you would do the same whether you were Townie, Inspector or Mafia. My point is that your reaction to LD's post is probably more unusual than LD's post itself. That's "my" way of thinking.
I'm going to leave my vote asis. Some people have been campaigning for a three-way runoff so there are 5 people including myself to throw into the mix. I still am not sure if 3 is good but I'll be watching the runoff (regardless of how many are in it) like a hawk to see if I can see the Mafia working as good as LLL claims to be able to see.
