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Scrog, you're probably right in that nobody appeared more Mafia-like than LD in the first round but my point is that it was that's like saying that Patton is more patriotic than Eisenhauer. I just think it was kind of contrived but I also know that you like to "stir things up" in your playing style and you're not shy when it come to confronting people. It seemed to me that you picked on a non-conventional approach to a vote and went off like the Salem witch trials. I do have to say that there was not a lot to go on but you jump on some things like a pit bull. Unfortunately, that gives me no clue as to whether you are Mafia or not. I know you would do the same whether you were Townie, Inspector or Mafia. My point is that your reaction to LD's post is probably more unusual than LD's post itself. That's "my" way of thinking.
I'm going to leave my vote asis. Some people have been campaigning for a three-way runoff so there are 5 people including myself to throw into the mix. I still am not sure if 3 is good but I'll be watching the runoff (regardless of how many are in it) like a hawk to see if I can see the Mafia working as good as LLL claims to be able to see.
It's not that I can see it, other players have agreed in other games (including EAP) that it makes more sense. I learned that from the elder players.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
Sorry, I was responding before I saw EAP's (or LLL's) posts. My intent on seeing what happens before and during the runoff is still very strong. Duh.
And I think that EAP is an experienced enough player to understand the ramifications of putting another person into the runoff. I would be careful to put too much weight into what she just did in the same way that I don't over-estimate Scrog's pounce on LD.
It's not that I can see it, other players have agreed in other games (including EAP) that it makes more sense. I learned that from the elder players.
If I'm thinking about the same conversation you are talking about, wasn't that in reference to a 3 player runoff being better than a 4 player one? I still think a 3 player runoff is better than a 2 player one because we are more likely to have at least one mafia in it.
Post by LoveLuckLaughter on Sept 14, 2011 22:10:59 GMT -5
We shall agree to disagree because I am talking about a three person run-off being less effective than a two person at seeing vote stacking because Mafia can distribute their votes and not appear to be associated with one another. We may have a mafia in the three, but since we don't know which one of the three is mafia, we are still just shooting in the dark, guessing at which one is mafia.
Vote association and vote stacking is what helps us stop guessing because we then have concrete evidence. If we set up a situation where we can't see the vote associations and vote stacking as well i.e. three and four person run-offs, then we will continue guessing all game at who mafia is.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
We shall agree to disagree because I am talking about a three person run-off being less effective than a two person at seeing vote stacking because Mafia can distribute their votes and not appear to be associated with one another. We may have a mafia in the three, but since we don't know which one of the three is mafia, we are still just shooting in the dark, guessing at which one is mafia.
Vote association and vote stacking is what helps us stop guessing because we then have concrete evidence. If we set up a situation where we can't see the vote associations and vote stacking as well i.e. three and four person run-offs, then we will continue guessing all game at who mafia is.
My thinking was 3 is better than 2 because we're more likely to get a mafia in the 3. But like I said, I'm new to this and don't really know how it works, or more specifically, what works best. I see your point about the vote stacking though.
Whoa LLL. The only people who get to make such strong accusations at this point are mafia and inspector. So unless you are saying you received my name (which there is no way you could have bc I'm a townie). A three person runoff is as big as it should get. Then we get to have two rounds to narrow it down which betters our chances of getting a mafia than just straight away voting someone off.
I'm changing my vote to LLL because she seems so certain of herself which is the most suspicious out of everyone.
I agree with you Mike D, LLL is more dangerous than LD. Mafia or not she is very hard to read. I am not sold on her or LD being Mafia, but I know LD has been paying attention to other Mafia member's traffic and has not posted much in this last run-off. Also, LD the coin flip? Why? I remember a virgin Mafia member using the 'coin flip' before. You said in the video this is the best way, "to make ya'll clueless." Why do we need to be made clueless? Can you explain that? Are you Mafia? If not, I would like a 12-15min video explaining why you are not Mafia, thanks.
I'm in Maryland right now, so I can't do up another video right now. And poor choice in wording on my part. I can't really convince you people that I am not Mafia. Anything I say or do can and will be used against me in a court of law Inforoo. So, you'll just have to trust the fact that I'm too clueless to be Mafia and Trips sounds really suspicious. edit:delete video I honestly think that if I survive this round, I'm gone the next. So what the hell does it matter? EDIT: fixed a typo
In the first quote, he says the coin is why he voted for LLL, next quote it is because she is suspicious. Which is it, Why did he vote for LLL? Now look at NBF, I think she she seems to cater to LD in her game play.
i agree NBF.....but i was wondering if that was too "out in the open"? noage has never been a huge discusser. i'd say though, between LLL and mikeD, we'd need to be more suspicious of LLL since mikeD was probably just noage's first round partner.
True. I don't think first round mafia kills are ever as helpful as we'd like them to be, but I figured we might as well talk about it. I did think that Mike D and noage had previously been voting partners, so I didn't think much of that. As far as LLL, the only thing she's done at all that strikes me as vaguely suspicious is having a rather high vote count without really saying much (see posts # 33-35, 72), which could possibly be seen as just trying to keep her count up so she doesn't get called out for being quiet. But I think her posting history is pretty similar to all her past games, regardless of whether she was mafia, so I'm not sure how much to make of it. I think I was more concerned about the Scrog thing. Of course, if Scrog was mafia saving his fellow mafia, that would implicate LLL as well, but it would also raise the questions: (1) why would he have put her in the runoff in the first place (I guess the obvious answer to that one would be to separate himself from his cohort early on, but still, seems risky); and (2) wouldn't it have been better when they realized she was getting voted off to just cut their losses and let her go, rather than having Scrog make a last-minute change like that? Which is kind of what I was getting at when I said it seemed awfully grand and blatant to be a mafia move. Still, it seems a little weird for him to have turned on LD at the last minute like that.
But yet she still votes for me. and later on to LLL. She has been pushing us as Mafia, basicly she defends LLL and I, as not being Mafia, but then still votes against us. I could be manipulating and made that bold move to save LLL, but why? and why is this so weird for me to change my vote for LD, Why is that so strange, if I think he is Mafia? Which one must admit he was showing a guilty coincidence.
Also, LLL made a comment post first run-off about closing voting early, she would have voted for LD and saved herself . There was a three way and LLL could have switched her vote from Dubbits to LD and he would have had more votes than anybody, NBF response to that was...
For what it's worth, LLL, if you had changed your vote to Lowerdeck before the runoff, I'd have most likely changed my vote to you to even it back out and make it more of a runoff situation anyway.
She saved his butt again. If LD does not show Mafia like characteristics, than I am wrong. If he does, than NBF is his partner.
Post by NothingButFlowers on Sept 15, 2011 11:14:03 GMT -5
Scrog, the first two posts you quoted from LD were 2 1/2 days apart. It's not hard to go from making a random vote to believing the person you voted for was suspicious in 2 1/2 days.
In the first quote you posted from me, I said might as well let the new guy through. There has been plenty of talk, in this game and previous ones, that it sucks to be a new player and get voted off first round. I don't see how my agreeing with that makes me LD's partner.
Yes, I explained why I thought your last minute vote change seemed too bold to be mafia, but I also can still think it is weird at the same time. I think it's possible that you did it thinking people would dismiss it as too blatant to be mafia. When I play this game, I always think about both sides of things and all possibilities. I often put them into my posts so that I can get feedback from other players on them.
And yes, I would have changed my vote to LLL, rather than just letting a player get voted off by the opposing party in the runoff. I don't think that there is anything suspicious about that at all. By going to a runoff, we got to see which way Mike D voted, and we got your last minute vote change.
I agree with EAP that a person who is very certain of things at this point is suspicious, but I think you seem more certain of things than LLL.
Post by NothingButFlowers on Sept 15, 2011 14:55:17 GMT -5
Mr. Belgian Manders, can I ask why you are voting for me? I know there have been reasons given by other people, but I'm curious as to whether you have a particular reason.
Mr. Belgian Manders, can I ask why you are voting for me? I know there have been reasons given by other people, but I'm curious as to whether you have a particular reason.
Not really a reason actually, I just didn't want to be the last person to vote. I think it's too early to know who's mafia and who's not, so I'm just guessing actually.
No NBF, when you flip a coin and that is why you are voting someone off, that is your reason, 'the coin does what the coin does.' In that time between post(my bad, there was one post in between, his Simpson reference) LLL did nothing to be 'suspicious'. If she did let me know.
NBF, you change your vote, like I change my underwear. I am standing by my decision and I have reasons, which I have explained in great detail, why I am voting who I am voting for. I do not see LLL as Mafia. She has done nothing to me to say, "Hey Scrog, I am Mafia!" The only thing that links us is my last second vote change. Which, if I was trying to save a fellow Mafia player, I would not have switched my vote at the last second. That is too obvious. You even said it yourself, but you still voted for me. I think if people re read this thread and put Mafia shoes on you they can see what I am talking about.
Nobody else is saying this person is Mafia or that person is Mafia for this reason or that reason. Except for me changing my vote. So, why is confidence, or having a feeling about who is Mafia or not, why is confidence a sign of being Mafia?
No NBF, when you flip a coin and that is why you are voting someone off, that is your reason, 'the coin does what the coin does.' In that time between post(my bad, there was one post in between, his Simpson reference) LLL did nothing to be 'suspicious'. If she did let me know.
So, you're saying we aren't ever allowed to change our reasons for voting for someone? I didn't particularly think LLL was suspicious in Day 1, but she did make comments and post between the time that LD said he was doing the coinflip and when he said she seemed suspicious. Maybe something in there struck him as suspicious. I don't know, but I do know that in 2 1/2 days, someone who made a random vote could decide that the person they voted for seems suspicious.
I am standing by my decision and I have reasons, which I have explained in great detail, why I am voting who I am voting for. I do not see LLL as Mafia. She has done nothing to me to say, "Hey Scrog, I am Mafia!" The only thing that links us is my last second vote change. Which, if I was trying to save a fellow Mafia player, I would not have switched my vote at the last second. That is too obvious. You even said it yourself, but you still voted for me. I think if people re read this thread and put Mafia shoes on you they can see what I am talking about.
And I've explained why I think you could be hiding behind the "it's too obvious" explanation.
Nobody else is saying this person is Mafia or that person is Mafia for this reason or that reason. Except for me changing my vote. So, why is confidence, or having a feeling about who is Mafia or not, why is confidence a sign of being Mafia?
Because I don't understand how an innocent townsperson in Day 2 of the game could be confident of anything. I have ideas about who could be mafia and who might not be, but I don't feel confident about any of you one way or the other.
Mr. Belgian Manders, can I ask why you are voting for me? I know there have been reasons given by other people, but I'm curious as to whether you have a particular reason.
Not really a reason actually, I just didn't want to be the last person to vote. I think it's too early to know who's mafia and who's not, so I'm just guessing actually.
I hope you don't take it personally? :s
I don't take anything in mafia personally, but I do hope you'll rethink your decision.
is confidence, or having a feeling about who is Mafia or not, why is confidence a sign of being Mafia?
there is a difference between saying you have "a feeling" someone is mafia and you KNOW someone is mafia.
scrog you were so adament about me last game, and look how wrong you were.
at this point, LLL and scrog are the only people acting suspiciously because they are so certain of what they are saying.
there is no way to know who is who at this point (with even 50% certainty in my mind) unless you are mafia or inspector.
because of this, in my opinion, LLL and scrog are the only people acting suspiciously because they are so certain of what they are saying. that is not to say NBF is not mafia herself, but she doesn't really seem to be doing much but defending herself and she has been a strong ally for the townspeople in the past (she's kind of a mini-kdogg if you will in a good way, duh ). on the flip side of this, she can be very good at tricking people if she is mafia.
more insight will come after tonight's whack, b/c that person will have probably said something in their posts to lead to the mafia believing they are inspector. many times the first round whack means nothing b/c the inspector is trying so hard to stay under the radar, that they often don't vote for the name they actually got.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
You're welcome. Im' trying to swing by and check in at least once during the day. We are working out in BFE at the moment. It's pretty but there's no interbutts.
Vote Tally: NBF - 4 LLL - 2 Scrog - 2
Votes so Far: Duddits >>> LLL Scrog >>> NBF Mike D >>> NBF Quacker >>> Scrog EAP>>>scrog >>> LLL NBF >>> LLL >>> Scrog Mr. Belgian Manders >>> NBF LLL >>> NBF
Left To Vote: Krunchykat
Voting remains open
Last Edit: Sept 15, 2011 22:32:15 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Post by NothingButFlowers on Sept 15, 2011 20:48:37 GMT -5
Well, hell. I started out thinking that if Scrog was mafia, so was LLL, but I'm not even sure that that is necessarily true. I really think Scrog is acting more suspicious than LLL, although I do think she's been somewhat suspicious, too. Regardless, if I have any chance of surviving this round, I'm going to have to change my vote back to LLL. I really hope you all will look at our posts and think hard about keeping me around.
Post by krunchykat on Sept 15, 2011 22:57:21 GMT -5
OK folks, I've yet to have a moment of clarity after reading all of your conversation and arguments. Right now I'm leaning more towards LLL or Scrog being mafia because of all the talk, but there's still nothing really pointing me in any one direction. My vote for Scrog will make no difference now, so I think I'm gonna have to go with LLL for another runoff. I just realized I don't like being the last person to vote!
No NBF, when you flip a coin and that is why you are voting someone off, that is your reason, 'the coin does what the coin does.' In that time between post(my bad, there was one post in between, his Simpson reference) LLL did nothing to be 'suspicious'. If she did let me know.
So, you're saying we aren't ever allowed to change our reasons for voting for someone? I didn't particularly think LLL was suspicious in Day 1, but she did make comments and post between the time that LD said he was doing the coin-flip and when he said she seemed suspicious. Maybe something in there struck him as suspicious. I don't know, but I do know that in 2 1/2 days, someone who made a random vote could decide that the person they voted for seems suspicious.
the thing is, NBF is was not a random vote, it was a well thought out video of a coin flip. It was not like LD chose LLL because he did not know who to vote for. He sat down with the idea to flip a coin to vote for LLL or Dubbits, it was not random, he planned that coin flip video out. (maybe not the outcome, I am not 100% sure LD was Mafia, but I am pretty confident he was, lets say 85%) According to him the coin flip was because he did not know who to vote for. Then he talks about LLL being suspicious. In between those post LLL did nothing to be suspicious(I wish someone would point out where she is being suspicious and I am up to change my mind).
What does that even mean? You change your underwear a lot? Good for you.
Yes, with my hemorrhoids and anal drippings I must change my tighty-whities often. Pick one and stick with it. Do you think I or LLL is Mafia or both. You give reason about why we may not be Mafia, but then you vote for either one of us. I think you are trying to get me and LLL looking like Mafia.
And I've explained why I think you could be hiding behind the "it's too obvious" explanation.
That would be a bold move on my part, but I now see where you are coming from. Make too obvious, like an over bet. I can see that.
Nobody else is saying this person is Mafia or that person is Mafia for this reason or that reason. Except for me changing my vote. So, why is confidence, or having a feeling about who is Mafia or not, why is confidence a sign of being Mafia?
Because I don't understand how an innocent towns person in Day 2 of the game could be confident of anything. I have ideas about who could be mafia and who might not be, but I don't feel confident about any of you one way or the other.
When I see multiple things that points someone as Mafia, than I am going to go in that direction. Until new information arises, I will stick with my original thought and not change my vote every time I post.
EAP, I was so wrong about you last game, way off I was, but I was on to something. I knew you were something, I just thought it was Mafia. Oops! Maybe LD was the inspector and I my maf-adar is off again.
KK, if one is quiet, they are Mafia, if one talks too much, they are Mafia. If my confidence makes me Mafia, than vote for me. I feel I am seeing something, with LD being Mafia and NBF as another Mafia. I am not seeing this or saying because they talk too much they are Mafia, I am seeing their actions and that is making them Mafia. KK, if I was quiet and not-so-confident, who would you say is Mafia?
The thing is, not one person has come out and said, "Scrog your line of think is whack because..." I think townines are seeing what I am saying and it makes sense. If not, please someone point me in the right direction.
I'm going to need to do some re-reading before I make this vote. It could be make-or-break for the game if LD was NOT Mafia and I choose a Townie. Ideally NBF and LLL are both Mafia and my vote will get at least one of them but that is not likely.
in a good way, duh 
). on the flip side of this, she can be very good at tricking people if she is mafia.