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If LLL and I are Mafia, Why would I let my so-called-Mafia partner sit with the most votes for a full day, only to change my vote at the last minute, unless someone else looked 'highly suspicious'. The ref has been hittin' and missin' with closing the voting, voting could have been closed at anytime in that 24 hours.
I've been back over this a few times, and this was actually bothering me until just now when I looked at the dates of the votes. Mike D cast what would have been the deciding vote for LLL at 8:12 p.m. (my time) on a Friday night, which means it would have been 10:12 Nashville time and 11:12 Eastern. You changed your vote at 9:34 p.m. (my time) the next day, Saturday. Assuming you and LLL were working together, it would have looked even worse than it did if you changed your vote right away. But even with you having waited a day, you would have had a pretty good idea that within that day (Friday night to Saturday night), SFA was probably not going to close the voting because it was the weekend.
With regard to Mike D's death, in Day 1, he voted for Noage (I believe his regular voting partner), Duddits, and then was what would have been the deciding vote to kill off LLL (until Scrog changed). At the beginning of Day 2, he made a rather lengthy post that directed suspicion at me and, to a lesser extent, Duddits. But then he didn't make another post for the rest of Day 2. The last vote for LLL was cast for something like 27 hours before SFA closed voting, and Mike D didn't say anything to try to sway the votes away from her.
Scrog, you said that if you were mafia, you would have wanted to keep Mike D around because he supported your theory. On the surface, I get what you are saying because of Mike D's post in Day 2, but when I think about him voting for LLL in Day 1 and not saying anything to try to change someone's vote for her in Day 2, it kind of looks to me more like, if you were working with LLL, you could have seen Mike D as a possible threat to you.
you are pushing really hard for some stuff scrog and unfortunately, in my mind it only makes you look kind of guilty. the whole first round mike "didn't agree with you". in fact he voted opposite you every time. the only time he "agreed" with your theory was in ONE post second round.
everything you are saying is hinging on the fact that you believe LD was mafia. do you have any proof of this?
i wish our inspector would show their face if they are still alive. even if you only have one name, perhaps that can shed some light in the direction we need to move.
you are pushing really hard for some stuff scrog and unfortunately, in my mind it only makes you look kind of guilty. the whole first round mike "didn't agree with you". in fact he voted opposite you every time. the only time he "agreed" with your theory was in ONE post second round.
everything you are saying is hinging on the fact that you believe LD was mafia. do you have any proof of this?
i wish our inspector would show their face if they are still alive. even if you only have one name, perhaps that can shed some light in the direction we need to move.
I've already made my perspective on LD being Mafia clear but I'm going to wait to hear what Krunchy, Duddits and Euroman have to say before I vote.
If LLL and I are Mafia, Why would I let my so-called-Mafia partner sit with the most votes for a full day, only to change my vote at the last minute, unless someone else looked 'highly suspicious'. The ref has been hittin' and missin' with closing the voting, voting could have been closed at anytime in that 24 hours.
I've been back over this a few times, and this was actually bothering me until just now when I looked at the dates of the votes. Mike D cast what would have been the deciding vote for LLL at 8:12 p.m. (my time) on a Friday night, which means it would have been 10:12 Nashville time and 11:12 Eastern. You changed your vote at 9:34 p.m. (my time) the next day, Saturday. Assuming you and LLL were working together, it would have looked even worse than it did if you changed your vote right away. But even with you having waited a day, you would have had a pretty good idea that within that day (Friday night to Saturday night), SFA was probably not going to close the voting because it was the weekend.
Are you saying I am that good, that I will let my "Mafia" partner sit with the most votes for a full 24 hours, before changing me vote at the last minute? I already had agreed with MikeD that LLL was a scary player who is hard to read and I already had made my vote, 24 hours before. SFA has been closing voting without notice and NO I would not have known him to not close voting on the weekend, it was a run-off right?
With regard to Mike D's death, in Day 1, he voted for Noage (I believe his regular voting partner), Duddits, and then was what would have been the deciding vote to kill off LLL (until Scrog changed). At the beginning of Day 2, he made a rather lengthy post that directed suspicion at me and, to a lesser extent, Duddits.
Yes, MikeD showed support to my theory.
But then he didn't make another post for the rest of Day 2. The last vote for LLL was cast for something like 27 hours before SFA closed voting, and Mike D didn't say anything to try to sway the votes away from her.
Why would he sway votes? Maybe he was inspector and wanted to lay low. You would have to ask MikeD that, oh wait you whacked him.
Scrog, you said that if you were mafia, you would have wanted to keep Mike D around because he supported your theory. On the surface, I get what you are saying because of Mike D's post in Day 2, but when I think about him voting for LLL in Day 1 and not saying anything to try to change someone's vote for her in Day 2, it kind of looks to me more like, if you were working with LLL, you could have seen Mike D as a possible threat to you.
A threat? Are fucking serious? Quacker was a threat, KK was a threat, you are a threat, Dubbits could be a threat, EAP is voting for me because of last game (okay not really, but you did use that earlier). A lot of people were a threat to me. MikeD was the least of everybody, for fuck sakes he was the only one(besides LLL) who has shown any support to my theory, the only one. I am not threaten by that. You insinuating that makes you look even more guilty and that is a threatening to me.
Yeah, I got that. I was hoping for some thoughts from "the quieter ones". I'm leaning towards voting Scrog but also trying to keep an open mind. His vote switch to save LLL is still the most suspicious move in the game in my mind. And his explanations supporting it seem kind of weak.
you are pushing really hard for some stuff scrog and unfortunately, in my mind it only makes you look kind of guilty. the whole first round mike "didn't agree with you". in fact he voted opposite you every time. the only time he "agreed" with your theory was in ONE post second round.
everything you are saying is hinging on the fact that you believe LD was mafia. do you have any proof of this?
No, I have no solid proof that LD is or was Mafia. He did things that makes me think he was Mafia, which I have repeated multiple times. If LD is Mafia, then actions by NBF puts her right there with him.
i wish our inspector would show their face if they are still alive. even if you only have one name, perhaps that can shed some light in the direction we need to move.
I agree here. Of the four killed I do not see LD as inspector, nor was LLL. MikeD could have been and so could have Noage. If Noage was inspector, that was a great guess by Mafia and that I would think that would be a move by an experience Mafia, one who knows Noage's voting habits and Mafia playing habits. To me, you and NBF are the only two I see with the knowledge of Noage style of play enough to know if he was acting different or not. MikeD could have been inspector, but I think he would have said something to either bring credit or discredit my theory. IDK.
Yeah, I got that. I was hoping for some thoughts from "the quieter ones". I'm leaning towards voting Scrog but also trying to keep an open mind. His vote switch to save LLL is still the most suspicious move in the game in my mind. And his explanations supporting it seem kind of weak.
Quacker, look at my first game. The one where I was Mafia and I used the "coin-flip" to save my partner one round and then be the first to vote for him the next round. I have no qualms with voting my fellow Mafia partner off. Again, if that was my plan, to save my "Mafia" partner, why on god's green earth would I let her ride with the most votes for a full day? and with a ref who could have closed voting at any time, hell even LLL was calling for the voting to be closed. If you believe LLL and I were Mafia, why would I have whacked the only person who has shown any support to my theory? Let me ask you this, what did LLL do the first rounds to make her look like Mafia? Besides my vote switch. What did LD do that was suspicious?
Yeah, I got that. I was hoping for some thoughts from "the quieter ones". I'm leaning towards voting Scrog but also trying to keep an open mind. His vote switch to save LLL is still the most suspicious move in the game in my mind. And his explanations supporting it seem kind of weak.
Quacker, look at my first game. The one where I was Mafia and I used the "coin-flip" to save my partner one round and then be the first to vote for him the next round. I have no qualms with voting my fellow Mafia partner off. Again, if that was my plan, to save my "Mafia" partner, why on god's green earth would I let her ride with the most votes for a full day? and with a ref who could have closed voting at any time, hell even LLL was calling for the voting to be closed.
I think NBF made a valid point that it was unlikely that voting would close that weekend. I think that if you were going to change your vote as a save for LLL that you would need a good reason and you exagerrated LD's noobness as suspicious. To me that sounded like as a ruse.
If you believe LLL and I were Mafia, why would I have whacked the only person who has shown any support to my theory?
I don't see a lot of support from MikeD on that point. His silence can also be seen as a lack of support.
Let me ask you this, what did LLL do the first rounds to make her look like Mafia? Besides my vote switch. What did LD do that was suspicious?
LLL did nothing to raise suspicion. She just got caught up in a runoff through no fault of her own. Your vote switch is what makes you look suspicious and her by association of that switch. I've already posted a footlong response to my perspective on LD's suspicious nature.
I think that if you are Mafia then you could whack MikeD as a means of gaining sympathy so you could remain stealth and whack more people before we could figure it out. I know you're a shrewd player.
Quacker, look at my first game. The one where I was Mafia and I used the "coin-flip" to save my partner one round and then be the first to vote for him the next round. I have no qualms with voting my fellow Mafia partner off. Again, if that was my plan, to save my "Mafia" partner, why on god's green earth would I let her ride with the most votes for a full day? and with a ref who could have closed voting at any time, hell even LLL was calling for the voting to be closed.
I think NBF made a valid point that it was unlikely that voting would close that weekend. I think that if you were going to change your vote as a save for LLL that you would need a good reason and you exagerrated LD's noobness as suspicious. To me that sounded like as a ruse.
Actually, according to the Ref, voting was not going to be open all weekend. I had no idea when voting would close. Everybody had voted and it remained open for another 24 hours. Voting could have been closed at any time.
For future rounds, could you let us know when you are closing voting, or at least wait until evening, when most people are home to converse about the voting. Hot European voted at 250am, and voting was closed by 430ish, before most of us were home from work to really see what was going on. I would have changed my vote to save my ass had I any idea voting was closing out.
You're right. Rookie reffing mistake. I should have left it open longer to allow for discussion and what not. I'll make sure to communicate my plans better from now on. Sorry. If any of you with ref experience have any pointers for me feel free to PM me.
I have a wedding reception tonight, just an FYI. No rush Mike D, I'll leave this open until discussion has totally died down. At this point, I don't think the entire weekend is necessary but I'll leave that up to Y'all.
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I don't see a lot of support from MikeD on that point. His silence can also be seen as a lack of support.
How is MikeD silence a lack of support? Seriously! He was the only living player to support or voice support to my theory. Which he followed up with a vote for NBF. MikeD was agreeing with my theory, if he speaks after his vote or not. He was supporting my theory, I am not going to fucking whack the only person who was on my side, Not at that moment. Not when I have 4 other people voicing or voting for me or against me. Think man.
Let me ask you this, what did LLL do the first rounds to make her look like Mafia? Besides my vote switch. What did LD do that was suspicious?
LLL did nothing to raise suspicion. She just got caught up in a runoff through no fault of her own. Your vote switch is what makes you look suspicious and her by association of that switch. I've already posted a footlong response to my perspective on LD's suspicious nature.
I think that if you are Mafia then you could whack MikeD as a means of gaining sympathy so you could remain stealth and whack more people before we could figure it out. I know you're a shrewd player.
Thanks for the Shrewd player comment, but who am I going to get sympathy from? EAP is too smart for that, you were voting against me, NBF is Mafia, I have hinted to Dubbits and KK as Mafia. HEG(hot euro guy) is someone I could maybe get sympathy from, but that is only one vote. If I am Mafia,whacking MikeD does not help me as much as it would to have him around. MikeD and his support for my theory does me better than him dead. Bottom line!
Here's my problem with that. At the time SFA specifically said that he would close voting tomorrow afternoon. And this was after LLL had requested that he be more specific with his vote closing announcements.
and LD, you can never be too "clueless" to not be Mafia. Ask Holls? and if it does not matter if you go this round or next, then
Scrog>>>LD
You're strongest argument in my view was saying that voting could have closed at any time but that was very unlikely. My short experience in this game is that when people gloss over the facts they are hoping that people will overlook the facts.
Here's my problem with that. At the time SFA specifically said that he would close voting tomorrow afternoon. And this was after LLL had requested that he be more specific with his vote closing announcements.
and LD, you can never be too "clueless" to not be Mafia. Ask Holls? and if it does not matter if you go this round or next, then
Scrog>>>LD
You're strongest argument in my view was saying that voting could have closed at any time but that was very unlikely. My short experience in this game is that when people gloss over the facts they are hoping that people will overlook the facts.
quacker>>>scrog
I have more to say about this, but work is calling. Quacker, I thought you were going to wait for Dubbits and KK to respond before u voted, at least that is what you said. Explain the change and I will explain the fault in your reasoning tonight when I have more time.
Here's my problem with that. At the time SFA specifically said that he would close voting tomorrow afternoon. And this was after LLL had requested that he be more specific with his vote closing announcements.
Here's your vote switch to LD one hour later.
You're strongest argument in my view was saying that voting could have closed at any time but that was very unlikely. My short experience in this game is that when people gloss over the facts they are hoping that people will overlook the facts.
quacker>>>scrog
I have more to say about this, but work is calling. Quacker, I thought you were going to wait for Dubbits and KK to respond before u voted, at least that is what you said. Explain the change and I will explain the fault in your reasoning tonight when I have more time.
I was going to wait until I came to the conclusion that I see nothing wrong with the logic. I can always change my vote but responding to your post has made me surer than I've ever been so I voted.
Well, this being my first game, my head is spinning in so many different directions right now. It seems, to me at least, that we still don't have any concrete evidence as to who is mafia at this point. There's a WHOLE lot of speculation going on and I've read and re-read these 8 pages. My gut tells me LD was not mafia, that LLL could have very well been mafia, and that these mafia whacks are not making any sense at all to me. Not sure if Scrog is mafia or not, but it now seems that Mr. Belgian Manders has 'sided' with him as well.
Post by krunchykat on Sept 20, 2011 1:41:03 GMT -5
OK, first let me make it clear that I'm not mafia. I agreed with the 3 person runoff solely for the fact that I thought it would up our chances of getting a mafia member in it. After LLL spelled out what that means for the vote stacking I understand why it may not always be a good idea. I'm with Duddits in that my head is spinning. I think I've got things figured out then there's a conversation that makes me think I'm wrong.
I was thinking that Scrog and LLL were mafia but now I'm just not really sure about that. Both Scrog and NBF make good arguments, but I think that Scrog is making more sense at this point. I hope that we've gotten rid of at least one mafia by now so if I'm wrong we don't lose tonight. I guess we'll soon see.
Post by NothingButFlowers on Sept 20, 2011 8:33:49 GMT -5
Here's the thing about Scrog's argument: it is based entirely on Lowerdeck having been mafia. While I will admit that there are things that Lowerdeck did that could be construed as mafia-like/suspicious (specifically, the coin flip and the vote for himself), this was also Lowerdeck's first game, and it's completely possible that he just made some choices that were viewed as suspicious because he didn't know any better. Other than (1) not voting for Lowerdeck, and (2) being suspicious of Scrog, Scrog has not given any reason for thinking I'm mafia. My reasons for being suspicious of Scrog are primarily (1) his switch to save LLL, and (2) his being overly confident at a time in the game when no innocent townsperson would be that confident. There are other things, such as the inconsistency with whether or not he knew voting was going to stay open, but those are my two main reasons. (And maybe I'm wrong about him, but, unfortunately, I don't have any better reasons to suspect anyone else.)
Anyway, I would rather keep my vote for Scrog, but if I leave my vote the way it is, I'm the one who is going to go, and I would rather not see that happen.
I hate this fucking game! So I re read the thread. NBF, LD did some things that were Mafia-like. If could be because it is his first game, but I did the same things my first game, and that is why I think LD is Mafia. I might not know what the hell I am talking about, I spoke loud to kill off the inspector last game, although she got whacked. I do know that I am not Mafia. I have gotten a vibe from you from the start of the game, when you said this.
Why break tradition? Scrog>>>LLL Anybody want to start a runoff?
I definitely want a runoff. Ideally, I'd put in you, Scrog, since you are the one who gave LLL a second vote (even though you had to do that for someone), but since you don't yet have a vote, I can't do that. So, I'm going with the other person who is voting for LLL. Sorry, Duddits, ordinarily, I wouldn't put in someone who is playing for the first time, but there are a lot of first time players this game, so let's see what happens. NBF >>> Duddits
I took that personally, why put me in it, just because I was the last one to vote? That put you on my radar, or what I have lamely been calling my Maf-adar. Then you did not vote for LD, after that you started painting me as Mafia. I know the truth about what side I am on and you were pointing a mafia finger at me, even after you rationalized why I was not Mafia, you still voted for me. I see you connected to LD and the last post about me whacking Miked, because I saw him as a threat. Well that was just ludicrous to me. Beside me switching votes, why do you think LLL was Mafia?
I have more to say about this, but work is calling. Quacker, I thought you were going to wait for Dubbits and KK to respond before u voted, at least that is what you said. Explain the change and I will explain the fault in your reasoning tonight when I have more time.
I was going to wait until I came to the conclusion that I see nothing wrong with the logic. I can always change my vote but responding to your post has made me surer than I've ever been so I voted.
Here's my problem with that. At the time SFA specifically said that he would close voting tomorrow afternoon. And this was after LLL had requested that he be more specific with his vote closing announcements.
Here's your vote switch to LD one hour later.
You're strongest argument in my view was saying that voting could have closed at any time but that was very unlikely. My short experience in this game is that when people gloss over the facts they are hoping that people will overlook the facts.
quacker>>>scrog
I have more to say about this, but work is calling. Quacker, I thought you were going to wait for Dubbits and KK to respond before u voted, at least that is what you said. Explain the change and I will explain the fault in your reasoning tonight when I have more time.
Quacker, I did not know when the ref would close voting, he said it would not go all weekend. We have the suspect Mafia LLL saying
I think everyone has probably had a chance to look over it by now, and with a run-off you don't have to do the weekend thing right?
Then I changed my vote First thing Sunday morning. You and NBF not being able to see that make me think you are Mafia with her. The two of you rationalizing me being Mafia and whacking MikeD is a crazy story, because I did not whack MikeD! Which also makes me think you are Mafia.
Beside me switching votes, why do you think LLL was Mafia?
In Day 1, I thought it was a little strange that she said she would have switched her vote to save herself, but then like three posts later, she said she was okay with getting killed off so that LD could play another day. And then for her to basically volunteer to get killed, but to then end up getting saved, I thought was a bit hinky.
In Day 2, her being so adamantly against having a 3-person runoff struck me as really odd as well. While I understand her point about stacking, I still think a 3-person runoff makes more sense because it's a lot more likely to actually have a mafia member in it.
I guess we'll soon see.