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Honestly even if a group of us want to be all exclusive and shit and talk about lineup rumors without "Kanye sucks" and "OMG FRENCH BAND IN TN" what is it to ya'll.
I totally understand that friendships and groups of like minded people have formed and thats awesome!! That is one of the things that I like about Inforoo. You may or may not be aware, but I have met several people from this board, and regardless of what happens publicly here, there are private conversations between myself and some that may (or may not) surprise you. What Im getting at is I appreciate the way this board has been the reason for some friendships, some really tight ones, and some acquaintances and some conversation between two or more people that has added to both of their lives in some way. As big, or insignificant as it may be. There is someone on this board that I share a very sensitive, very important thing with and we have talked about it a couple of times. That wouldn't have happened without this board.
So, what if one of us was segregated out of some thread on this board because of whatever reason (one of us was new, one of us wasn't one of the cool kids, something in between) we would have never made that connection.
Apply that to someone who will be lumped together with the oncoming imminent wave of trolls about to be bestowed upon us. Lets say they get turned off to the whole board because they are excluded and they despise that type of attitude. And that connection never takes place.
I realize I am coming up with a very specific instance, but this will probably happen if we segregate the cool kids from everyone not deemed cool.
If there are private threads, I will still come to this site, it won't change my view. I can disagree but accept.
Honestly even if a group of us want to be all exclusive and shiz and talk about lineup rumors without "Kanye sucks" and "OMG FRENCH BAND IN TN" what is it to ya'll.
Like I said the internet is a big place, why do you have to do it on a public message board?
Honestly even if a group of us want to be all exclusive and shiz and talk about lineup rumors without "Kanye sucks" and "OMG FRENCH BAND IN TN" what is it to ya'll.
Yeah, the Kanye arguments are more than a little bit annoying. It would be great to have a thread about Headliners without that argument coming up once a week (or so it seems) but Kanye (like it or not) is someone who is, or at the very least is ARGUABLY a headliner, and is someone who many would like to see. So unfortunately Kanye talk will happen in the HL thread. If we ignore the ignorant comments, we can probably police ourselves and the thread and make it better.
Honestly even if a group of us want to be all exclusive and shiz and talk about lineup rumors without "Kanye sucks" and "OMG FRENCH BAND IN TN" what is it to ya'll.
Like I said the internet is a big place, why do you have to do it on a public message board?
Honestly even if a group of us want to be all exclusive and shiz and talk about lineup rumors without "Kanye sucks" and "OMG FRENCH BAND IN TN" what is it to ya'll.
Like I said the internet is a big place, why do you have to do it on a public message board?
On the same token, why do we have to do it anywhere else?
I totally understand that friendships and groups of like minded people have formed and thats awesome!! That is one of the things that I like about Inforoo. You may or may not be aware, but I have met several people from this board, and regardless of what happens publicly here, there are private conversations between myself and some that may (or may not) surprise you. What Im getting at is I appreciate the way this board has been the reason for some friendships, some really tight ones, and some acquaintances and some conversation between two or more people that has added to both of their lives in some way. As big, or insignificant as it may be. There is someone on this board that I share a very sensitive, very important thing with and we have talked about it a couple of times. That wouldn't have happened without this board.
So, what if one of us was segregated out of some thread on this board because of whatever reason (one of us was new, one of us wasn't one of the cool kids, something in between) we would have never made that connection.
Apply that to someone who will be lumped together with the oncoming imminent wave of trolls about to be bestowed upon us. Lets say they get turned off to the whole board because they are excluded and they despise that type of attitude. And that connection never takes place.
I realize I am coming up with a very specific instance, but this will probably happen if we segregate the cool kids from everyone not deemed cool.
If there are private threads, I will still come to this site, it won't change my view. I can disagree but accept.
I still vote community over segregation.
I vote you stop acting like this is segregation.
We are not segregating the board. We're not having a VIP room. We are asking to be given the chance to hold small-scale discussions privately so we don't have to create a public thread for them or force them into other threads.
And your representation of this whole thing is just completely off base. We are not proposing making the Headliner Prediction thread private. Or any other major thread that are the fly traps of this board. They will be supplemental. Do you think people will be more likely to expose some intimate detail of themselves in a private thread with 5-10 people they trust or a public forum where literally anyone can come and print screen and share it with the world?
Like I said the internet is a big place, why do you have to do it on a public message board?
Why shouldn't they be able to?
Im not trying to be argumentative, or cute, or snide, or snarky here so don't misunderstand but:
There are many reasons, and that is what this whole discussion is about.
That being said, this discussion about private threads has been refreshingly healthy and positive, regardless of the fact that there are 2 very opposing views on what seems to be a somewhat sensitive subject. I appreciate the fact that this is a public discussion (not being a smartazz - just stating a fact). No matter how this shakes out, I appreciate being able to share my thoughts and opinions on the matter. I fully realize that Im not the only one here who's opinion should matter on any subject (which is what makes forums great to me - hearing other's views, all of them) and if the decision is made to have private areas, I respect it and thoroughly understand why that decision was made.
We are not segregating the board. We're not having a VIP room. We are asking to be given the chance to hold small-scale discussions privately so we don't have to create a public thread for them or force them into other threads.
Like I said the internet is a big place, why do you have to do it on a public message board?
Why shouldn't they be able to?
Other than the fact that it will turn into a clique and someones feelings will be hurt then you will have to deal with the drama not much comes to mind. Like I said though I just do not really see an upside to the board turning into some version of the Masons where people have to incrementally prove how cool they are to advance to the next level.
Here is a scenario and I bet this or something similar will happen this year if you implement this.
A private EDM, Jam, Indie etc.. group will either get or act like they have confirmation on a big band they are excited about. Then they will drop hints that they know something on the private part that is not accessible to standard users. Someone will lie to join, and 50 people will PM and 30 will start threads to bitch. My question is why would the mods want to do something like this to themselves? It will just be a logistical nightmare, hurt feelings, and in the end be pretty anti inclusive.
tinychat in and of itself is designed so members can talk to each other and pm just to talk shiz about other people. Not the only function it has, but one used pretty heavily.
Disagree with you here, Katy. I can't speak for others, but I go in TinyChat a lot and frequently PM with other users/board members in there, and very, very, VERY rarely is it to "talk sh*t" about other people/members of the board. That's the honest-to-God truth.
Other than the fact that it will turn into a clique and someones feelings will be hurt then you will have to deal with the drama not much comes to mind. Like I said though I just do not really see an upside to the board turning into some version of the Masons where people have to incrementally prove how cool they are to advance to the next level.
Here is a scenario and I bet this or something similar will happen this year if you implement this.
A private EDM, Jam, Indie etc.. group will either get or act like they have confirmation on a big band they are excited about. Then they will drop hints that they know something on the private part that is not accessible to standard users. Someone will lie to join, and 50 people will PM and 30 will start threads to biznatch. My question is why would the mods want to do something like this to themselves? It will just be a logistical nightmare, hurt feelings, and in the end be pretty anti inclusive.
This is insinuating that there aren't already cliques on inforoo, which you of all people should know is false.
And everyone here is an adult, do they walk around their place of employment feeling insulted any time someone is holding a conversation without them? Do they walk around a bar upset because people around them are talking to each other without inviting them to join? Because that's the real life equivalent of what you're talking about.
And your Masons analogy is ridiculous. How many times and in how much big bolded letters can we type "WE ARE NOT CREATING A VIP SECTION"? The idea has evolved and now anyone, any random donkey with a keyboard, can create his private thread. So, let's say someone doesn't like me and refuses me entry, do I weep about it to the board and force my way in? No, I laugh and move the f*ck on.
Your scenario makes no sense. If people in a private thread discuss the potential confirmation in that private thread, no one would know. Unless you meant that people would be dropping hints in the public thread, and to that everyone asking for this idea has pretty much agreed to institute some kind of reprimand.
Private threads stay private unless everyone agrees to take the discussion public.
This isn't earth-shattering stuff, it's not even an original idea, it's just something that some of us would really like to use and the rest of you probably would ignore.
If you are going to have your feelings hurt by not being included in a certain thread you need to grow up
I won't but someone sure as hell will, and the people who have the private threads are also going to act superior about on the public part of the boards eventually as well and that won't help either.
Years ago we had this conversation and several of us started a "invite-only" adjunct board to inforoo. It was quite possibly the biggest shit show that ever happened on here, and I would like to think the mods are smart enough to remember how bad that got, and not try this experiment again.
Literally it got so bad that we lost long time members and the fallout was insane. You could not even bring it up on here for three years without getting your thread deleted not locked.
I totally understand that friendships and groups of like minded people have formed and thats awesome!! That is one of the things that I like about Inforoo. You may or may not be aware, but I have met several people from this board, and regardless of what happens publicly here, there are private conversations between myself and some that may (or may not) surprise you. What Im getting at is I appreciate the way this board has been the reason for some friendships, some really tight ones, and some acquaintances and some conversation between two or more people that has added to both of their lives in some way. As big, or insignificant as it may be. There is someone on this board that I share a very sensitive, very important thing with and we have talked about it a couple of times. That wouldn't have happened without this board.
So, what if one of us was segregated out of some thread on this board because of whatever reason (one of us was new, one of us wasn't one of the cool kids, something in between) we would have never made that connection.
Apply that to someone who will be lumped together with the oncoming imminent wave of trolls about to be bestowed upon us. Lets say they get turned off to the whole board because they are excluded and they despise that type of attitude. And that connection never takes place.
I realize I am coming up with a very specific instance, but this will probably happen if we segregate the cool kids from everyone not deemed cool.
If there are private threads, I will still come to this site, it won't change my view. I can disagree but accept.
I still vote community over segregation.
I vote you stop acting like this is segregation.
We are not segregating the board. We're not having a VIP room. We are asking to be given the chance to hold small-scale discussions privately so we don't have to create a public thread for them or force them into other threads.
And your representation of this whole thing is just completely off base. We are not proposing making the Headliner Prediction thread private. Or any other major thread that are the fly traps of this board. They will be supplemental. Do you think people will be more likely to expose some intimate detail of themselves in a private thread with 5-10 people they trust or a public forum where literally anyone can come and print screen and share it with the world?
Good points. My opinion of the creation of private threads is that it will lead to a slippery slope and turn into a situation where there is an "in" crowd and everyone else. It starts somewhere, and I honestly feel like this is encouraging that.
I realize that the HL thread will always be there, and public and MY GOSH do I wish the troll factor could be turned down several notches. However, this public forum has found a way to make a very personal, very specific subject shared between myself and another member of this board somehow. It happened, without it having to be shared in front of a massively public audience. Im just not so sure it would have happened if there were private areas. Would that have happened if we were in two separate areas of this forum? Maybe. But maybe not.
I just view this as a slippery slope, and a community as a whole. It is just my view, and I accept that others views are not the same as mine. I totally appreciate your view of it and to be honest, I would like to have private threads too. How about a thread where we could talk about children with life threatening illnesses? Or other sensitive subjects, like, say, alcoholic parents or deeply personal issues? That would be AMAZING. Truly would. Unfortunately, I personally think that the benefit of having that kind of area would take too much away from the community of this place (which as it is is pretty damn amazing, if you ask me).
Like I said, these are my thoughts and nothing more.
Here a reason specific to me as to why I would rather not have private areas:
You mentioned me being a 'lone wolf'. I won't argue that. If there are private areas where all the 'cool kids' hang out, and I am excluded from that, Im going to have my feelings hurt. This could lead to me disliking someone (as irrational as it may be) for envious reasons. Now, I know you and I have had some sparring matches, but I really don't think you think I am a total doucher (maybe Im wrong, but I guess I am just an optimistic guy and hope that through the arguments, you understand that we just think differently about some things and while you disagree with me, you respect my different point of view and don't dislike me because of it) and I certainly don't think that of you, at all. I respect you quite a bit and like your sense of humor. But if you were sitting at the Football players table at the lunch room, I might not have the same view of you. Rational or irrational, its true.
Jess I'm going to propose the same question to you that I did EAP.
Do you have a problem with group PMs?
If not, what's the difference between a group PM and a private thread?
To me, going the step further in making private threads as opposed to just implementing group PMs is all about interface. Obviously the thread interface is really great on a bulletin board like this where you can see each response laid out, go back and edit your posts, etc.
Jess I'm going to propose the same question to you that I did EAP.
Do you have a problem with group PMs?
If not, what's the difference between a group PM and a private thread?
To me, going the step further in making private threads as opposed to just implementing group PMs is all about interface. Obviously the thread interface is really great on a bulletin board like this where you can see each response laid out, go back and edit your posts, etc.
A group PM is self limiting because it is clunky, and will never go on long enough to cause the problems I think will happen with private threads.
If you think it is no different than a private thread why not just use group PM's?
Last Edit: Jan 9, 2013 13:04:02 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
tinychat in and of itself is designed so members can talk to each other and pm just to talk shiz about other people. Not the only function it has, but one used pretty heavily.
Disagree with you here, Katy. I can't speak for others, but I go in TinyChat a lot and frequently PM with other users/board members in there, and very, very, VERY rarely is it to "talk sh*t" about other people/members of the board. That's the honest-to-God truth.
I never said everyone does, but you can't Sit there and say it doesn't frequently happen. You're one of the good guys, but not everyone is like you.
Disagree with you here, Katy. I can't speak for others, but I go in TinyChat a lot and frequently PM with other users/board members in there, and very, very, VERY rarely is it to "talk sh*t" about other people/members of the board. That's the honest-to-God truth.
I never said everyone does, but you can't Sit there and say it doesn't frequently happen. You're one of the good guys, but not everyone is like you.
I haven't been in there in about a year. I remember it pretty clearly. It was the night the Grammys were on and someone said something like "hey surf, word is you are a shizzy poster". I joked back, and stayed in for a little bit then logged off when I wanted to. Then never went back. I realized (or felt like, at the very least) that I wasn't wanted there. That I didn't belong. Did it hurt my feelings? Not really. Its a group of people that I don't belong to, and that's ok. But that isn't this forum. That is something separate.
Disagree with you here, Katy. I can't speak for others, but I go in TinyChat a lot and frequently PM with other users/board members in there, and very, very, VERY rarely is it to "talk sh*t" about other people/members of the board. That's the honest-to-God truth.
I never said everyone does, but you can't Sit there and say it doesn't frequently happen. You're one of the good guys, but not everyone is like you.
I hear you. You're right that I can't sit here and say that, because I don't know what other people are saying in PMs. But from my vantage point, it seems like the sh*t-talking about other members is kept to a minimum on there. Maybe I'm just being naive, and I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all, but it seems to be kept in check pretty well.
Now, the OLD chat from a few years ago...that was a different story. THAT chat (which I also enjoyed) was definitely used for a lot of sh*t-talking.
As far as whether or not private threads will result in more sh*t-talking, I don't think there's any way of knowing until we see them implemented, if we see them implemented. But if people want to talk sh*t about a poster, they're not going to wait for the implementation of private threads to do so, I will say that. They'll find an avenue for it.
I never said everyone does, but you can't Sit there and say it doesn't frequently happen. You're one of the good guys, but not everyone is like you.
I haven't been in there in about a year. I remember it pretty clearly. It was the night the Grammys were on and someone said something like "hey surf, word is you are a shizzy poster". I joked back, and stayed in for a little bit then logged off when I wanted to. Then never went back. I realized (or felt like, at the very least) that I wasn't wanted there. That I didn't belong. Did it hurt my feelings? Not really. Its a group of people that I don't belong to, and that's ok. But that isn't this forum. That is something separate.
The last time I logged on Bacon was talking shit about me, so i just lurked for a minute left and I have not been back.
Good points. My opinion of the creation of private threads is that it will lead to a slippery slope and turn into a situation where there is an "in" crowd and everyone else. It starts somewhere, and I honestly feel like this is encouraging that.
I realize that the HL thread will always be there, and public and MY GOSH do I wish the troll factor could be turned down several notches. However, this public forum has found a way to make a very personal, very specific subject shared between myself and another member of this board somehow. It happened, without it having to be shared in front of a massively public audience. Im just not so sure it would have happened if there were private areas. Would that have happened if we were in two separate areas of this forum? Maybe. But maybe not.
I just view this as a slippery slope, and a community as a whole. It is just my view, and I accept that others views are not the same as mine. I totally appreciate your view of it and to be honest, I would like to have private threads too. How about a thread where we could talk about children with life threatening illnesses? Or other sensitive subjects, like, say, alcoholic parents or deeply personal issues? That would be AMAZING. Truly would. Unfortunately, I personally think that the benefit of having that kind of area would take too much away from the community of this place (which as it is is pretty damn amazing, if you ask me).
Like I said, these are my thoughts and nothing more.
Fair enough, and reasonable concerns I'd say. You bring up a good about personal issues and such where people might not feel comfortable posting in an open thread, but might open up more and find actual help or guidance in a private thread.
Here a reason specific to me as to why I would rather not have private areas:
You mentioned me being a 'lone wolf'. I won't argue that. If there are private areas where all the 'cool kids' hang out, and I am excluded from that, Im going to have my feelings hurt. This could lead to me disliking someone (as irrational as it may be) for envious reasons. Now, I know you and I have had some sparring matches, but I really don't think you think I am a total doucher (maybe Im wrong, but I guess I am just an optimistic guy and hope that through the arguments, you understand that we just think differently about some things and while you disagree with me, you respect my different point of view and don't dislike me because of it) and I certainly don't think that of you, at all. I respect you quite a bit and like your sense of humor. But if you were sitting at the Football players table at the lunch room, I might not have the same view of you. Rational or irrational, its true.
Damn, we were so close to a breakthrough right there.
Again, this is not a "cool kids" thing. You can have a private thread the same way I can. There's no hierarchy of private threads. Are you really going to care if I don't invite you to my "NYC concert thread"? Am I going to be insulted if you don't invite me to a thread about children with disabilities and ways to improve their quality of life? No, although if that thread had something truly helpful that went beyond that discussion, I would hope you'd share it. Just like if my concert thread had something big time that might get people to fly into NY for a show or something.
(edit: before someone misreads that, I am not equating a child battling their disability to us finding out MMJ is doing a show at MSG or something, so apologies if that's how it read)
See, I don't think we're that far apart on this idea, it's just certain people are fixating on the exclusionary elements of this idea while others are focusing on the other side of that coin. Streamlined discussion behind the scenes would clean up the public forums, I think.
And you're right, I don't think you're a total douche, I just like (as I suspect you do) to butt heads to pass the time between Roo's. That "sparring" aspect will never go away since this is the internet, Inforoo is a fairly notable name in the Roo community and idiots exist in startling numbers.
And confession: I was a cool kid in high school. I bounced betweek the cool jocks table and the cool non-jocks table. Know what else? Those tables f*cking sucked balls. I'm not friends with any of those people anymore for the most part and am happy to be a nerd out in the open. It's funny, but part of the reason I like this forum is for the most part it's not made up of the cool kids. We're all f*cked up, and I love that.
People aren't going to disappear if they post already, discussions won't tail off if there are things to be discussed, new people will still get their hazing like any good message board should do. Yes, small-scale discussion will taper off and (in the most extreme case possible) disappear entirely. Is that terrible? I'd rather have 100 pages on 1 thread than 1 page on 100 threads.
Jess I'm going to propose the same question to you that I did EAP.
Do you have a problem with group PMs?
If not, what's the difference between a group PM and a private thread?
To me, going the step further in making private threads as opposed to just implementing group PMs is all about interface. Obviously the thread interface is really great on a bulletin board like this where you can see each response laid out, go back and edit your posts, etc.
A group PM is self limiting because it is clunky, and will never go on long enough to cause the problems I think will happen with private threads.
If you think it is no different than a private thread why not just use group PM's?
The only aspect of a group PM that is different than a private thread, to me, and the reason that I said it would be more preferred, is that the threaded view is much easier to navigate a conversation with multiple people than the PM system here.
If a group PM system was implemented that simply looked and acted like a thread, where everyone can see all responses laid out in front of them, I think a lot of people who want this would be happy.
The only issue that the mods might run into with making that system, however, is something Flanz brought up earlier. Say someone gets added after the conversation has started--they should be able to see the entire thing laid out as opposed to whatever occurs after they're added, and it seems like making threads is just easier on the mods.
Ya we knew it was you. Did I say anything untrue. We were talking about you jumped right back into your posting habits and that you were going to jump in this thread on the opposite side of Juggs. Seems both of those were true.
A group PM is self limiting because it is clunky, and will never go on long enough to cause the problems I think will happen with private threads.
If you think it is no different than a private thread why not just use group PM's?
This isn't a serious comment, is it? Read the thread if you're going to comment in it, possibly?
Group PMs suck, don't allow the different members on the PM to see each other's responses and allows for no interaction except between recipient and original sender directly.
Clunky? That's like saying a car with square wheels is clunky.
A group PM is self limiting because it is clunky, and will never go on long enough to cause the problems I think will happen with private threads.
If you think it is no different than a private thread why not just use group PM's?
The only aspect of a group PM that is different than a private thread, to me, and the reason that I said it would be more preferred, is that the threaded view is much easier to navigate a conversation with multiple people than the PM system here.
If a group PM system was implemented that simply looked and acted like a thread, where everyone can see all responses laid out in front of them, I think a lot of people who want this would be happy.
The only issue that the mods might run into with making that system, however, is something Flanz brought up earlier. Say someone gets added after the conversation has started--they should be able to see the entire thing laid out as opposed to whatever occurs after they're added, and it seems like making threads is just easier on the mods.
I will bet you twenty dollars right now that nothing about private threads will make anything "easier" on the mods. Unless you really believe that feelings won't be hurt, and that there will not be any abuses by people in the thread or out of it.
