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1. I made a racial stereotype and I was in the wrong. Even though it was one of the few positive stereotypes out there. 2. Flanz had the option to bust my chops about it and he did. 3. But instead of just calling me out and telling me to shut the fuck up, he went on and used hate to fight hate 4. And that doesn't make much sense.
Whether you use the words or not, it's still degrading to everyone. Just like stereotypes. Just like racisim.
So, let's end this shit. Flanz is who he is. That won't change. We all know going forward he's going to call you out if you say something shitty in the racist department. Chicks (not all of them) are going to take offense to being called certain body parts. Even some guys will, too.
NOW.... can we get back to the fucking kanye discussion? Bc I don't feel we have completely covered everything there is.
WHERE'S THE PRESS AT???? WHERE'S THE PRESS AT???? WHERE'S THE PRESS AT????
Post by Dale Cooper on Jun 19, 2014 14:29:33 GMT -5
I really need Kanye to go backwards as an artist and tour Late Registration one more time. Just around the Kentucky/Indiana/Ohio/Tennessee region. Just one date. Please.
Emoney serves more of a purpose than any of you, especially Nate, whose incessant, garbled ramblings are so mindless and pointless that I get depressed just seeing them.
I didn't say it was "on par," as if some such scale of weighing the offensiveness of slurs should even exist. Listen to your argument- it is riddled with such poor logic, I really feel sorry for you. 'Hmmm... just because the people it describes use it, I should be able to use it to.' Absolutely, positively not. It fucking offends the hell out of a class of people who had no control over what genitalia they were born with. As far as I have seen, no one has used a single racial epithet to describe Kanye anywhere on this thread. But yoy freely and casually call girls c***, all whilst lecturing about racism. You are a piece of work, kiddo.
And you deny the existence of racism while lecturing people on sexism, so here we are.
Hahahahhaha! Never, ever did I deny the existence of racism. I just stated that Bonnaroovians as a whole were probably less apt to direct racially charged hate than other sectors of society. Flanz got preachy, so I impeached his character and he can't handle it.
And you deny the existence of racism while lecturing people on sexism, so here we are.
Hahahahhaha! Never, ever did I deny the existence of racism. I just stated that Bonnaroovians as a whole were probably less apt to direct racially charged hate than other sectors of society. Flanz got preachy, so I impeached his character and he can't handle it.
You realize that's not the best way to prove a point, right?
I agree with his thesis that much of the Kanye hate is racially based. I said it to you first. I never called anyone a c*nt, so what else do you have in response?
Yes. Seriously. The C-word can not be said around your family, your co-workers, loudly in public. All those places that the N-word can't be said. I realize that the N-word has much heavier historical baggage, but both are VERY offensive in the eyes of the average american. Just because one is 98% offensive and one is 99% offensive doesn't really change that they're at the top of the list, and the average woman will be just as offended that you called her a C-word as if you called a black person an N-word.
But cunt hasn't been used to oppress an entire race of people for generations. It's ignorant to act as if these words share similar weight. There's simply no way of justifying it and to even attempt to do so is asinine.
The idea that the people going to Bonnaroo are somehow less racist then the general public is the thing I have an issue with. Liking music doesn't wash you clean of your racial prejudices, there is NO correlation to be made, how could you even come to that assumption?
Yes. Seriously. The C-word can not be said around your family, your co-workers, loudly in public. All those places that the N-word can't be said. I realize that the N-word has much heavier historical baggage, but both are VERY offensive in the eyes of the average american. Just because one is 98% offensive and one is 99% offensive doesn't really change that they're at the top of the list, and the average woman will be just as offended that you called her a C-word as if you called a black person an N-word.
But cunt hasn't been used to oppress an entire race of people for generations. It's ignorant to act as if these words share similar weight. There's simply no way of justifying it and to even attempt to do so is asinine.
1) I'm not a feminist, but it's pretty clear that women were treated only marginally better than slaves throughout history. (See: most of the middle east to this day) Way before American culture and our race issue, men have owned, bought, sold, beat, used, abused and done every single other thing to women. So it's ridiculous to claim that black people are more persecuted than women, that just depends on where in history you look. 2) I directly said that the N-word has more historical baggage than the C-word. But in modern America, where racial oppression isn't quite what it was a few decades ago, the C-word and the N-word are very, very close to being equally offensive. I don't walk around saying either, because I have common sense. But I'm not being ignorant to compare the two. I think Americans being offended by any word is largely idiotic, but I listened to a lot of George Carlin growing up and that's our culture. But don't act holier than thou because I don't bow down to the offensiveness of the N-word. I wasn't undermining it's weight, just suggesting another word is also not appropriate for every day usage.
Hahahahhaha! Never, ever did I deny the existence of racism. I just stated that Bonnaroovians as a whole were probably less apt to direct racially charged hate than other sectors of society. Flanz got preachy, so I impeached his character and he can't handle it.
You realize that's not the best way to prove a point, right?
I agree with his thesis that much of the Kanye hate is racially based. I said it to you first. I never called anyone a c*nt, so what else do you have in response?
Maybe so, but he wasn't exactly being a civil partner in debate either.
And as for my response, I am very proud of you for not using an offensive word that no one should use. Good for you. And there are undoubtedly people that hate him for his race- I never denied that. I just tried to afford the benefit of the doubt to the good people of Bonnaroo and concluded they were walking out/booing/jeering for other, more legitimate reasons.
But (see above) I am sorry I put a damper on anyone's good time. I am really happy you enjoyed it.
You realize that's not the best way to prove a point, right?
I agree with his thesis that much of the Kanye hate is racially based. I said it to you first. I never called anyone a c*nt, so what else do you have in response?
Maybe so, but he wasn't exactly being a civil partner in debate either.
And as for my response, I am very proud of you for not using an offensive word that no one should use. Good for you. And there are undoubtedly people that hate him for his race- I never denied that. I just tried to afford the benefit of the doubt to the good people of Bonnaroo and concluded they were walking out/booing/jeering for other, more legitimate reasons.
But (see above) I am sorry I put a damper on anyone's good time. I am really happy you enjoyed it.
The difference between you and me is that you think there are legitimate reasons for booing or jeering a performer.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Jun 19, 2014 14:52:57 GMT -5
Musicians can be such egotistical assholes.
Also
“If being an egomaniac means I believe in what I do and in my art or music, then in that respect you can call me that... I believe in what I do, and I'll say it.”
“Part of me suspects that I'm a loser, and the other part of me thinks I'm God Almighty.”
Who said those quotes? Sounds like Kanye West, right? Nah....just John Lennon.
Let's also not forget these music legends and their thoughts on having a big ego:
"A big ego means that you have some confidence in your abilities, really, and that you're prepared to take the risk of trying them out." - Brian Eno
"The star thing I can live with. The music I can't live without. And that's how it lays out for me, you know. I got as big an ego and enjoy the attention." - Bruce Springsteen
"To have ego means to believe in your own strength. And to also be open to other people's views. It is to be open, not closed. So, yes, my ego is big, but it's also very small in some areas. My ego is responsible for my doing what I do - bad or good." - Barbara Streisand
The point is.....Kanye gets shit for his ego but here we have classical and modern music legends all talking about having an ego in a positive way and why it's important for artists.
Bonnaroo 2008-2013
0ct 11 Pearl Jam
Oct 12 Pearl Jam
March 16 Arcade Fire
April 29 Arcade Fire
Sept 4 Wilco
Sept 9 The Hold Steady
Oct 16 Pearl Jam
Oct 17 Gaslight Anthem
Maybe so, but he wasn't exactly being a civil partner in debate either.
And as for my response, I am very proud of you for not using an offensive word that no one should use. Good for you. And there are undoubtedly people that hate him for his race- I never denied that. I just tried to afford the benefit of the doubt to the good people of Bonnaroo and concluded they were walking out/booing/jeering for other, more legitimate reasons.
But (see above) I am sorry I put a damper on anyone's good time. I am really happy you enjoyed it.
The difference between you and me is that you think there are legitimate reasons for booing or jeering a performer.
To use a borrowed term, I think this is one of the "morphing" arguments Flanz was describing. And we can't be all that different. We both love "Hey Bulldog" (or used to, anyways) and Spoon.
Cheers. I am done talking/thinking/giving a passing thought to Kanye for a long, long time (i.e. returning to my previous state before this years Bonnaroo).
But in modern America, where racial oppression isn't quite what it was a few decades ago, the C-word and the N-word are very, very close to being equally offensive.
We must be living in different Americas then. The word cunt isn't tied to any specific gender, race, religion, etc.
I'm really just shocked that you're equalizing the two so freely.
But in modern America, where racial oppression isn't quite what it was a few decades ago, the C-word and the N-word are very, very close to being equally offensive.
Post by Dale Cooper on Jun 19, 2014 15:07:38 GMT -5
Yep, done with that argument. I said my piece. I'm going home. See you guys tomorrow. Only a few more weeks until this board goes into a coma for 6 months!
