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One song that immediately and without much effort blows your "Kanye doesn't say anything" comment out of the water, no? We could go through Yeezus, on which at least half the songs are about much deeper meanings than typical rap/pop songs.
Or, better yet, why don't you give us some of the artists you think are the best still putting out music and we can go and pick all the songs that are "about nothing."
Broad stroke commentary never, ever works. With one song reference your statement was proven false, instead of acknowledging that fact you just decide to pull the "what, no more!?" act?
Come on, man, if you want to have a legitimate discussion you have to be willing to dig deeper than "derrr Kanye sucks!" and pulling out cliche one-liner criticisms.
You're right. With one song you have proven that Kanye is rapper of real substance. Jesus really does walk with him.
Don't put words in my mouth, please. I never said one song proves he's anything, but one song with meaning behind it does disprove your very broad criticism that Kanye "never talks about anything."
MMJ have killed it with albums the last 10 years in my opinion, QOTSA last four albums have been tits, The Pineapple Theif have had a great decade of albums. Obviously Radiohead was already mentioned... White Stripes already mentioned. Weird Al has pumped out gold. Compared to their other albums I'm not a huge fan of Muse's latest, but they've had a solid decade, nothing groundbreaking, and I would say up until their last album Dream Theater had a great decade of albums.
I would have to agree that since music is subjective, it makes no sense to list artists who put out better records in the past 10 years.
But let's try it anyway....
Arcade Fire Radiohead LCD Soundsystem Yeah Yeah Yeahs The White Stripes
And I know someone will say "Those are groups, Kanye did it alone!"
I'm pretty sure having 6 producers and/or rappers on every track evens all of this out.
Kanye isn't really talking about anything, but the beats are fun.
First, saying Kanye isn't talking about anything is dumb. He's just not talking about anything you consider worth hearing. That's on you (and why he's talking about it in the first place). Second, saying he's not talking about anything, and therefor implying "The f*cking Suburbs" is some sort of cutting edge analysis on the human condition is extra dumb. Third, WSP is awesome.
But at the same token, can you penalize Kanye for putting out more quality projects? Something must be said for the fact that he's released 5 legit great albums (Looking at you, Graduation) in the same time span those other people put out less.
Is 808's and Heartbreak really that great and worth checking out? I haven't ever really given that a chance but thought it was the one that a lot of people disliked.
808's is extremely underrated imo, I think it's better than graduation
I'll assume that is a joke and you understood what I meant.
I figured as much, as you've stated your love for Kanye's lyrics before (and I should hope someone listing Sigur Ros as one of their top artists of the decade at least knows that much). It's just a minor annoyance of mine when people assume it's all gibberish, and I don't like seeing that idea spread. It may have become a bit of a Pavlovian response by this point.
It's just a minor annoyance of mine when people assume it's all gibberish, and I don't like seeing that idea spread. It may have become a bit of a Pavlovian response by this point.
This is how a lot of us feel when people write off Kanye as an empty headed egotist. Just saying.
I'll assume that is a joke and you understood what I meant.
I figured as much, as you've stated your love for Kanye's lyrics before (and I should hope someone listing Sigur Ros as one of their top artists of the decade at least knows that much). It's just a minor annoyance of mine when people assume it's all gibberish, and I don't like seeing that idea spread. It may have become a bit of a Pavlovian response by this point.
Exactly. I am well versed in Sigur Ros yet don't know much of what they're saying in a word for word listening. Those songs not sung in Icelandic are in a language that doesn't translate to real lyrics the way we are used to hearing them in English. It's almost like doo wop or scat and its beautiful - to me. The original point being that artists express in many different ways in music and there's lots we (well I shouldn't speak for anyone else) can appreciate that don't have words or words that have literal meaning to us.
Oh also I don't know I'd say I love my June housemate's lyrics, the way I do say, Dylan or Joni, but I often find them very clever and entertaining, yes.
It's just a minor annoyance of mine when people assume it's all gibberish, and I don't like seeing that idea spread. It may have become a bit of a Pavlovian response by this point.
This is how a lot of us feel when people write off Kanye as an empty headed egotist. Just saying.
Except one is a simple misconception about the language used, and the other is a difference of opinion on the merit of lyrics written in English. Not really the same thing, although I understand where you're coming from.
I don't get why everyone gets so bent out of shape over any sort of criticism of Kanye at all. The guy is far from talentless, but I just don't think he's the be-all, end-all like most in this thread claim. Some people think Thom Yorke is a whiny little shit; when I hear someone say that, I just shrug my shoulders, tell them it's their loss, and move on.
I don't get why everyone gets so bent out of shape over any sort of criticism of Kanye at all. The guy is far from talentless, but I just don't think he's the be-all, end-all like most in this thread claim. Some people think Thom Yorke is a whiny little shiz; when I hear someone say that, I just shrug my shoulders, tell them it's their loss, and move on.
That's not quite the same thing. It's more like someone saying, "Thom Yorke is a whiny little sh*t, all of his music is vapid nonsense about being a whiny little sh*t, and I hope like hell he doesn't show up at any festival I ever plan on attending, ever." Would you not find that irritating and worth arguing about?
This is how a lot of us feel when people write off Kanye as an empty headed egotist. Just saying.
Except one is a simple misconception about the language used, and the other is a difference of opinion on the merit of lyrics written in English. Not really the same thing, although I understand where you're coming from.
I don't get why everyone gets so bent out of shape over any sort of criticism of Kanye at all. The guy is far from talentless, but I just don't think he's the be-all, end-all like most in this thread claim. Some people think Thom Yorke is a whiny little shiz; when I hear someone say that, I just shrug my shoulders, tell them it's their loss, and move on.
For whatever reason, much criticism of Kanye (not talking about you here - just addressing your question), is vague, hypocritical or racist. The last two are always bothersome to me. I totally get someone not liking him - just dont feel his beats, it sounds overproduced to me, auto tune gives me seizures - whatever. But when it's a constant barrage to find anything on the net to invalidate his worth as a human or show what a prick he is and then tie that to his talent or lack thereof should be addressed. Again this is just my opinion and I'm only referring to certain critiques.
Some criticisms of him musically seem fair and I don't think everything he does should be defended to the hilt as an untouchable. For the record - if someone said "I won't see Radiohead because Thom Yorke is a weird, prickly whiny shite" and then said "but I can't wait to see Ryan Adams" I'd have to point that out.
We can all be hypocrites - often because we do or don't like something for reasons that are different than the ones we think. I would hope to be called out for it myself because it would give me a chance to either explain why I didn't think it was or even better, look harder at myself and what that means.
Some criticisms of him musically seem fair and I don't think everything he does should be defended to the hilt as an untouchable. For the record - if someone said "I won't see Radiohead because Thom Yorke is a weird, prickly whiny shize" and then said "but I can't wait to see Ryan Adams" I'd have to point that out.
We can all be hypocrites - often because we do or don't like something for reasons that are different than the ones we think. I would hope to be called out for it myself because it would give me a chance to either explain why I didn't think it was or even better, look harder at myself and what that means.
It would be interesting to see how many of these hypocrites who criticize Kanye for things like auto tune love Bon Iver.
Post by problem dog on Dec 17, 2013 19:53:26 GMT -5
There was discussion around these parts about how poorly the Atoms for Peace tour was selling. The general tone was something like, "oh, that's a shame." When the subject is Kanye's tickets sales, you have people gleefully reporting low attendance in f*cking Kansas City like it's evidence that he's a giant piece of sh*t.
Some criticisms of him musically seem fair and I don't think everything he does should be defended to the hilt as an untouchable. For the record - if someone said "I won't see Radiohead because Thom Yorke is a weird, prickly whiny shize" and then said "but I can't wait to see Ryan Adams" I'd have to point that out.
We can all be hypocrites - often because we do or don't like something for reasons that are different than the ones we think. I would hope to be called out for it myself because it would give me a chance to either explain why I didn't think it was or even better, look harder at myself and what that means.
It would be interesting to see how many of these hypocrites who criticize Kanye for things like auto tune love Bon Iver.
For the record - I made that one up. The thought of it just amused me - like it could be a Seinfeld episode for the 2010s.
I don't get why everyone gets so bent out of shape over any sort of criticism of Kanye at all. The guy is far from talentless, but I just don't think he's the be-all, end-all like most in this thread claim. Some people think Thom Yorke is a whiny little shiz; when I hear someone say that, I just shrug my shoulders, tell them it's their loss, and move on.
That's not quite the same thing. It's more like someone saying, "Thom Yorke is a whiny little sh*t, all of his music is vapid nonsense about being a whiny little sh*t, and I hope like hell he doesn't show up at any festival I ever plan on attending, ever." Would you not find that irritating and worth arguing about?
Eh, not really. It certainly makes for a more interesting conversation than an echo chamber, at any rate. Some people think Wilco are boring as fuck and won't hesitate to say so, even though Nels and Glen are absolute masters of their instruments. That doesn't mean they don't have a right to participate in the discussion or that their opinion is invalid. So...
when I hear someone say that, I just shrug my shoulders, tell them it's their loss, and move on.
I am not a Kanye fan, at all. Mostly because I am not a fan of the genre, it has never done it for me.
But painting anything with broad strokes never works. Saying rap is devoid of any meaningful lyrics makes as much sense as saying jam bands are all boring. Either you like it or you don't. Sometimes articulating that is tough. Coming at it with generalities is not a good way to go about it, especially here. :-)