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Suggestion: Modify (or add) rule to say dead and non players shouldn't post in the thread. Period. End of story. If you're not actively in the game, then stay out of the game.
(Reference Mafia 100)
We talked about this a game or two back, and it was implemented precisely because we didn't want it coming up again. It should have been included in our current game. But I think fawn copied a previous set of rules and I didn't catch it.
Post by potentpotables on Sept 19, 2017 9:33:41 GMT -5
We should really consider amending the rules for length of round on Day 5. Going ten hours without a single post seems interminable. Next time I ref, I'm going to clarify that at the beginning, Days 4 and 5 will be shorter with extensions granted at ref's discretion.
We should really consider amending the rules for length of round on Day 5. Going ten hours without a single post seems interminable. Next time I ref, I'm going to clarify that at the beginning, Days 4 and 5 will be shorter with extensions granted at ref's discretion.
Patience, Potent. Ten hours ago was between midnight and 1 am EST. People sleep, and then go to work in the morning.
We should really consider amending the rules for length of round on Day 5. Going ten hours without a single post seems interminable. Next time I ref, I'm going to clarify that at the beginning, Days 4 and 5 will be shorter with extensions granted at ref's discretion.
Patience, Potent. Ten hours ago was between midnight and 1 am EST. People sleep, and then go to work in the morning.
The round began 15 hours ago (approx), all three have posted, not a single vote has been cast. The dead periods in this game (not 106 but generally) drag so much.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
That rule with 26 votes is tight. Maybe we should implement that.
Umm? "The referee must give ample notice before closing a round?" It's posted at the bottom of every tally. Am I missing something here? Look at your tally and look at your clock. No one holds your hand in mafia.
That rule with 26 votes is tight. Maybe we should implement that.
Umm? "The referee must give ample notice before closing a round?" It's posted at the bottom of every tally. Am I missing something here? Look at your tally and look at your clock. No one holds your hand in mafia.
He's trying to influence the current game by hinting the town got screwed over. Pretty transparent.
Umm? "The referee must give ample notice before closing a round?" It's posted at the bottom of every tally. Am I missing something here? Look at your tally and look at your clock. No one holds your hand in mafia.
He's trying to influence the current game by hinting the town got screwed over. Pretty transparent.
Gotcha. I guess in his defense that round was closed before the posted time.
I want to hash out the specifics on rewriting Rule 4, so we can have it in place in time for M111.
The current rule states: 4) Each day a vote is held for the player to be eliminated. For online play, deliberation and voting is combined; thus, you can vote and explain yourself in the same post. Every player is free to change their vote at any point up until the Referee declares that voting is closed. The Referee will then post the final tally, announce which player is eliminated and how they died.
I would like the rule to explicitly specify that the deadline issued by the referee is the point where voting is closed, regardless of whether or not the referee is actually posting at said deadline. If the deadline passes and the referee has not posted, then the game is paused until the referee declares the round is closed or an extension has been granted.
There's another rule issue that's occurred during this game that I can't believe needs to be addressed, but I will need to propose after the conclusion of M110. Partly it's due to my own negligence, but regardless it apparently needs to be specified more clearly for future games.
I want to hash out the specifics on rewriting Rule 4, so we can have it in place in time for M111.
The current rule states: 4) Each day a vote is held for the player to be eliminated. For online play, deliberation and voting is combined; thus, you can vote and explain yourself in the same post. Every player is free to change their vote at any point up until the Referee declares that voting is closed. The Referee will then post the final tally, announce which player is eliminated and how they died.
I would like the rule to explicitly specify that the deadline issued by the referee is the point where voting is closed, regardless of whether or not the referee is actually posting at said deadline. If the deadline passes and the referee has not posted, then the game is paused until the referee declares the round is closed or an extension has been granted.
There's another rule issue that's occurred during this game that I can't believe needs to be addressed, but I will need to propose after the conclusion of M110. Partly it's due to my own negligence, but regardless it apparently needs to be specified more clearly for future games.
I agree. It is part of what makes reffing harder than even playing. The only clarification I would include is that unless an extension is granted in thread prior to the deadline, no extension is given. Removes abeguity that leads to challenges. No one is left wondering if you were pmed
I think the round should end when the ref comes in to close it. If the ref is late and discussion is still on going, why punish the players for a shitty ref??
I think the round should end when the ref comes in to close it. If the ref is late and discussion is still on going, why punish the players for a shitty ref??
If there's discussion going on right before the deadline, and someone feels they may be wavering in a vote - then they have a right to request an extension. The ref also has a right to give an extension as they see fitting.
My concern is about people making or changing votes after the originally given deadline. Such as Viking in Day 1 in M110.
I think the round should end when the ref comes in to close it. If the ref is late and discussion is still on going, why punish the players for a shitty ref??
If there's discussion going on right before the deadline, and someone feels they may be wavering in a vote - then they have a right to request an extension. The ref also has a right to give an extension as they see fitting.
My concern is about people making or changing votes after the originally given deadline. Such as Viking in Day 1 in M110.
Yeah in my opinion the vote should have stayed. The thought is that the next round starts only when the previous one ends. Say the ref is 3 hours late then the game is essentially stalled for three hours by no fault of the players. I don’t feel so strongly about it that I’ll put up a fight about the rules. Just putting my opinion out there.
This difference of opinion is why a rule is needed. Personally I'm in favor of the round ending at the stated time. Refs can't always post on the dot, but if everyone knows when the dot is, there's no confusion for anyone.
I think the round should end when the ref comes in to close it. If the ref is late and discussion is still on going, why punish the players for a shitty ref??
If there's discussion going on right before the deadline, and someone feels they may be wavering in a vote - then they have a right to request an extension. The ref also has a right to give an extension as they see fitting.
My concern is about people making or changing votes after the originally given deadline. Such as Viking in Day 1 in M110.
I agreed with your interpretation even though that was not what the rules stated!
Dan, reffing is hard. Harder than playing IMO at least from a work standpoint. Not a shitty ref if you can't make it on the dot. Especially during the holidays. I think this change removes ambiguity and makes the games smoother son support it.
I missed the deadline by oversight. It was on me. Asking for an extension is not too hard for players to do.
Post by piggy pablo on Jan 6, 2018 17:05:38 GMT -5
I made my stance clear in the game, but I'll reiterate: there's too much opportunity for shenanigans if we require the ref to close the round but also anticipate it ending at a certain time.
Also, these people who volunteer to ref, God bless them, I don't know why they want to do it, so I think we should be accommodating and understanding of their time and the fact that they may not be able to jump in on the hour and close a round. Not kissing ass, but I'm aware that it's a pretty thankless job where one takes a good amount of shit. People join these Mafia games and all of a sudden are too busy to post for days at a time. Refs should be given a little bit of leeway as well.
I think most of us feel this way. Maddog and Dan seem to disagree, but those are the only two I can think of from the current game.
If there's discussion going on right before the deadline, and someone feels they may be wavering in a vote - then they have a right to request an extension. The ref also has a right to give an extension as they see fitting.
My concern is about people making or changing votes after the originally given deadline. Such as Viking in Day 1 in M110.
I agreed with your interpretation even though that was not what the rules stated!
Dan, reffing is hard. Harder than playing IMO at least from a work standpoint. Not a shitty ref if you can't make it on the dot. Especially during the holidays. I think this change removes ambiguity and makes the games smoother son support it.
I missed the deadline by oversight. It was on me. Asking for an extension is not too hard for players to do.
I’ve reffed two games so I’m well aware. I don’t see how any shenanigans could be played. If there’s a vote switch an extension should be granted. Is there something I’m not seeing?
Yes, but I don't think it matters, because almost everyone disagrees with you. Sorry.
What are the benefits of forcing a ref to come in to close the round, as opposed to having it end at a set time, other than that it's the current rule?
Yes, but I don't think it matters, because almost everyone disagrees with you. Sorry.
What are the benefits of forcing a ref to come in to close the round, as opposed to having it end at a set time, other than that it's the current rule?
The disconnect is that the game used to run on a tighter schedule and there was generally heavier discussion right up until the deadlines. In that environment it made sense for the ref to be a little looser with rounds and extend things while discussion was still on going, etc. Now rounds tend to have much bigger dead spaces so a fixed time for closing makes more sense. It also makes the ref's job easier, IMO, because weighing when to close rounds in a way that's far to both sides is harder when both sides are used to extensions.
It really evens out about the same. It's just a difference in playing style that's evolved over time. Some people have experienced both so their perspective on it is just different.
Edit: That's not to say there weren't exceptions in the older games. The refs just used to close rounds in a different manner a lot of times.
If the ref doesn’t close the round then what’s the point of a ref besides roles and nights? The players could agree on a deadline and post tallies. Obviously the ref would also handle rule disputes but I think it’s better to have an active ref and a game that is more flexible based on how the discussion is moving etc.
4) Each day a vote is held for the player to be eliminated. For online play, deliberation and voting is combined; thus, you can vote and explain yourself in the same post. Every player is free to change their vote at any point up until the time of the deadline which the referee has given for the round. At or after given deadline time. the Referee will post the tally, and if applicable grant/deny any requested extensions or announce which player is eliminated.
10) The Like Rule: No person, player or otherwise, may like or dislike any posts by active players.
I'm also floating this one out there for a possible change.
7) The Referee shall neither answer an Inspector's inquiry nor execute a Mafia's chosen victim until after having received both the Inspector's inquiry and the Mafia's chosen victim. If the Inspector is the victim, the Inspector is not owed an answer from the Referee. The Inspector can NOT reveal the referee's confirmation until after the start of the next day. The Referee shall only accept victim names from living Mafia players.
4) Each day a vote is held for the player to be eliminated. For online play, deliberation and voting is combined; thus, you can vote and explain yourself in the same post. Every player is free to change their vote at any point up until the time of the deadline which the referee has given for the round. At or after given deadline time. the Referee will post the tally, and if applicable grant/deny any requested extensions or announce which player is eliminated.
10) The Like Rule: No person, player or otherwise, may like or dislike any posts by active players.
I'm also floating this one out there for a possible change.
7) The Referee shall neither answer an Inspector's inquiry nor execute a Mafia's chosen victim until after having received both the Inspector's inquiry and the Mafia's chosen victim. If the Inspector is the victim, the Inspector is not owed an answer from the Referee. The Inspector can NOT reveal the referee's confirmation until after the start of the next day. The Referee shall only accept victim names from living Mafia players.
Minor Edits
4) Each day a vote is held for the player to be eliminated. For online play, deliberation and voting is combined; thus, you can vote and explain yourself in the same post. Every player is free to change their vote at any point up until the posted deadlinetime of the deadline which the referee has given for the round. At or after given deadline time, the Referee will post the tally, and if applicable grant/deny any requested extensions, and/or announce which player is eliminated.
10) is perfect
7) I am ok with it, but maybe change the sequencing. How about this instead:
7) The Referee shall neither answer an Inspector's inquiry nor execute a Mafia's chosen victim until after having received both the Inspector's inquiry and the Mafia's chosen victim. Upon receiving both the inquiry and the victim, the Referee will first start the new day and announce the victim. Once the day has started, they will respond to the inquiry of the inspector. If the Inspector is the victim, the Inspector will not receive an answer from the Referee. The Referee shall only accept victim names from living Mafia players.
I think the ref answering guesses from the inspector before the whack is submitted/announced is risky business in general, and was something I was genuinely concerned with as mafia.
I think the ref answering guesses from the inspector before the whack is submitted/announced is risky business in general, and was something I was genuinely concerned with as mafia.
I can't remember this ever coming into play, but LD is correct. It closes a potential problem. Better to fix it before it affects a game.
I think the ref answering guesses from the inspector before the whack is submitted/announced is risky business in general, and was something I was genuinely concerned with as mafia.
I can't remember this ever coming into play, but LD is correct. It closes a potential problem. Better to fix it before it affects a game.
