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-EDM has staying power. I doubt many of us are looking at EDM as a passing fad anymore (again just stating the obvious here) but electronic dance music is here to stay. By here I mean the US, electronic dance music in whatever form has been popular everywhere else in the world since the 70s, we're just the ones late to embrace it. As such, we'll continue to see headliners for festivals which are more traditionally rock drawn from this pool. I definitely think we'll see Skrillex and Pretty Lights on the What in the years to come.
-Hip-hop has staying power, in fact I think hip-hop artists are the most talked about musicians in the wider media. We will continue to see headliners drawn from this pool.
This is interesting, because I see some parallels between the rise of EDM and the way hip hop grew into the mainstream. The way there was an initial electronic music explosion in the U.S. in the mid-to-late 90s followed by a more firm shift into the realm of the mainstream consciousness some 10 years later reminds me of how rap developed into a commercial force from the 80s to the 90s.
Just give me Tool next year. And with their album getting closer to actually coming out, it's not that far fetched of an idea.
Would be great to come full circle for me. Tool was the band that originally got me to Bonnaroo, and thus opened up my mind to a whole selection of music I had never encountered before.
-EDM has staying power. I doubt many of us are looking at EDM as a passing fad anymore (again just stating the obvious here) but electronic dance music is here to stay. By here I mean the US, electronic dance music in whatever form has been popular everywhere else in the world since the 70s, we're just the ones late to embrace it. As such, we'll continue to see headliners for festivals which are more traditionally rock drawn from this pool. I definitely think we'll see Skrillex and Pretty Lights on the What in the years to come.
-Hip-hop has staying power, in fact I think hip-hop artists are the most talked about musicians in the wider media. We will continue to see headliners drawn from this pool.
This is interesting, because I see some parallels between the rise of EDM and the way hip hop grew into the mainstream. The way there was an initial electronic music explosion in the U.S. in the mid-to-late 90s followed by a more firm shift into the realm of the mainstream consciousness some 10 years later reminds me of how rap developed into a commercial force from the 80s to the 90s.
That is a good point, they did have similar timelines to commercial success, but I would argue that hip-hop as a whole was still bigger in the 90s than EDM was. Purely from my experience has a high school kid from '96-'00, EVERYONE had a copy of The Chronic or Doggystyle, EVERYONE had at least a handful of No Limit/Cash Money CDs, EVERYONE had a copy of Bone E. 1999 Eternal. But still only a handful of people were rocking Exit Planet Dust, and then a few more had Dig Your Own Hole or whatever Moby had going on then.
But there is definitely a parallel in the rise of both genres in the past several years, and I think it doesn't hurt that the line between the two constantly blurs, what with all the collaborations, and the popularity of dubstep and trap genres.
I was also going to point out that hip-hop is a purely American art form while EDM comes from Europe, but I think EDM wasn't purely European born, since saying that would erroneously ignore the Detroit/Chicago/NYC house scene.
It's not the demise of headliners, it's just Roo missed on headliners this year. It's known that they made offers to Prince and the Grateful Dead...just didn't work out. Even though Coachella got "Drake'd" they still pulled off AC-DC and Jack White. Even though Hangout got ZBB, they still pulled off the Foo Fighters, Sam Smith (not my taste, but a big draw for a festival right now), and Beck. Firefly was able to get Sir Paul and The Killers (not my taste, but the seem to be a good draw for festivals) and Lolla was able to get Sir Paul AND Metallica.
For those that say headliners are overrated and it's all about the undercard, I would say yes and no to that. When ranking a lineup, it's usually the depth that makes the difference. Headliners move tickets though. For example, if the Grateful Dead was #1 on the Roo lineup instead of Billy Joel...I would go.
The tough part is avoiding repeat headliners. Roo has a very loyal fan-base...have talked to plenty of people who have been 4, 5, 6 years in a row now. I think you could possibly be seeing a trend starting with festivals giving an artist or band a chance to headline who hasn't had the opportunity to previously. Even though Kendrick is 4th on Roo's lineup, he will be playing the main stage on Friday when the headliner typically plays. Tame Impala is closing down Shaky Knees, Florence is 3rd on the Lolla lineup, etc.
Post by manoverboard on Apr 15, 2015 9:47:56 GMT -5
Its not even an issue of weak headliners for me, its that there is so much overlap with headliners these past few years. Acts like The Black Keys, Kings of Leon, Jack White and The Killers would have been a little more interesting if it werent for the fact that they've played everywhere the past couple of years. Same with Drake - im personally not a big fan, but it was an interesting choice for Coachella until his name later popped up on like 6 other lineups this summer.
Back in 2010 no major festivals had hardly any overlap in headliners, they each had their own unique "get." Lolla got Lady Gaga and Soundgarden's reunion show, Bonnaroo got Stevie Wonder, Coachella got Gorillaz (and I think Atoms for Peace's first show?), ACL got the Eagles and Phish, even Voodoo switched it up by booking Ozzy. Lets go back to that.
And yes, someone needs to book Daft Punk, Tool and Prince. We've waited long enough.
This is interesting, because I see some parallels between the rise of EDM and the way hip hop grew into the mainstream. The way there was an initial electronic music explosion in the U.S. in the mid-to-late 90s followed by a more firm shift into the realm of the mainstream consciousness some 10 years later reminds me of how rap developed into a commercial force from the 80s to the 90s.
That is a good point, they did have similar timelines to commercial success, but I would argue that hip-hop as a whole was still bigger in the 90s than EDM was. Purely from my experience has a high school kid from '96-'00, EVERYONE had a copy of The Chronic or Doggystyle, EVERYONE had at least a handful of No Limit/Cash Money CDs, EVERYONE had a copy of Bone E. 1999 Eternal. But still only a handful of people were rocking Exit Planet Dust, and then a few more had Dig Your Own Hole or whatever Moby had going on then.
But there is definitely a parallel in the rise of both genres in the past several years, and I think it doesn't hurt that the line between the two constantly blurs, what with all the collaborations, and the popularity of dubstep and trap genres.
I was also going to point out that hip-hop is a purely American art form while EDM comes from Europe, but I think EDM wasn't purely European born, since saying that would erroneously ignore the Detroit/Chicago/NYC house scene.
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough. I meant that I see the status of hip hop in the late 1980s as similar to electronic music in the US in the 90s, and hip hop's commercial takeover in the 90s-00s like the way EDM has dominated from the late 00s into the 10s.
Post by CheesedickOrDie76 on Apr 15, 2015 10:22:29 GMT -5
Would the massive growth and maturation in the festival market overall have anything to do with it? I mean even as recent as 5 years ago there weren't nearly as many festivals. You got every type of festival under the sun competing with normal touring. There is only so much money to go around so big bands are going to presumably choose the options that maximize their earnings, right?
Edit:
Festivals can book cheap EDM and have higher margins while concerts can host large expensive older groups and charge exorbitant prices to baby boomers and have higher margins as well
The problem is that there is a finite number of acts which are considered "big enough" to headline a major festival, so with so many festivals taking place each year, that well runs dry pretty quick and people complain about the boring headliners. Conversely, when a festival tries to step outside the box and elevate an artist to headliner status or bring in a choice out of left field, people complain that the act isn't big enough or whatever. People basically want Radiohead and Daft Punk every year, or some insanely rare reunion or massive legacy artist, but there aren't enough of those to go around. What needs to happen is for festivals to really make a concerted effort to bump some acts into the loop, whether it works or not. You're seeing some of this in 2015, with acts like Kendrick Lamar, Drake, Florence + the Machine, Sam Smith, Mumford, etc. getting the nod. Over the next few seasons, I'd be surprised if acts like Bon Iver, the National, Vampire Weekend, and acts of that level don't start headlining major festivals.
You've already been seeing this for most of the decade. Right after the Grammys / right before the Bonnaroo lineup announcement in '11, #WhoTheFuckAreArcadeFire was trending on Twitter. There was some argument over whether Mumford could headline before they were announced, too. (#WhoTheFuckIsPaulMcCartney was also trending recently, but I'm just going to pretend half of Twitter had conspired to troll all us non-Tweeters). As much as I enjoy the bigger names, I'm also in favour of giving smaller names the bump. I'd rather see Bonnaroo take a chance on an almost-there name (as they did this year with Kendrick) than recycle the same dozen names every few years *yawn*. Most of the earlier-end Baby Boomer acts who dominated classic rock are in their 70s now, or close enough to it, and won't be around forever. To a lot of Bonnaroo's target demographic, it's not dad rock so much as grandpa rock.
Oh, and The National are already a headliner. The other two are still in that almost-but-not-quite purgatory, but The National have already headlined Made In America, Riot Fest, Osheaga, Pukkelpop, Primavera Sound, Sasquatch, and Shaky Knees, plus played venues like the O2 and Carnegie Hall and the Sydney Opera House Forecourt. I will eat my Sanuks if they don't headline their next Bonnaroo appearance.
Post by Swedish Chef on Apr 15, 2015 10:50:37 GMT -5
I think a lot of emphasis is placed on headliners at a festival like Bonnaroo because they're unopposed. Since only one act closes out the What stage and none of the other four primary stages/tents have anything scheduled during that time slot, people naturally have high expectations for headliners. It becomes more of a high-stakes situation. If you're not excited about the headliners, I can understand the frustration about having very limited options for 2+ hours, especially when some headliners cost as much as they do.
For example, if the Grateful Dead was #1 on the Roo lineup instead of Billy Joel...I would go.
This. All fucking day!
The dynamic of the festival would have changed exponentially if this had happened. The majority of tickets would have been gobbled up by heads and the whole vibe of the festival would be completely different from the past several years.
Prince headlining and I also would have been there, even though I've already seen him, the opportunity to see him at fucking Bonnaroo where you know it will be a crazy party, unlike Essence Festival where I saw him, would be too special to miss out on.
Billy Joel? That dude is cheesy as fuck and while it will be fun, that isn't something I would tell my Grandkids about. It's something I would specifically avoid telling them about.
well ya'll, just buy blur's new album so we have a shot at them headlining over here somewhere next year:
"I’m up for doing a bit of touring," says singer Damon Albarn. "But there’s a great question mark when it comes to America with Blur for me...I love America," he says. "It's had a profound effect on me. So I'd like to come back again – but if I don't I'm not going to lose any sleep over it."
Adds Albarn, "It's really up to whether anyone likes [the new album] over there. That's my attitude. If you like it, we might come over. If you don't. . .I wouldn't want to arrive with my suitcase and wide eyes to indifference."
Even though Hangout got ZBB, they still pulled off the Foo Fighters, Sam Smith (not my taste, but a big draw for a festival right now), and Beck. Firefly was able to get Sir Paul and The Killers (not my taste, but the seem to be a good draw for festivals) and Lolla was able to get Sir Paul AND Metallica.
just to play a little devil's advocate here, couldn't this same thing be said about Mau5, Mumford, and Kendrick (and maybe Billy Joel, especially at a festival that forgoes cutting edge for that cheeseball nostalgia aesthetic sometimes?)
Fests should embrace heavy music a little more. Seems like the only "heavy" acts deemed acceptable as headliners are Metallica, Ozzy/Sabbath, Tool, NIN, RATM, and Soundgarden. They should expand that pool. I'd be down for some Maiden, System of a Down, or Rammstein as headliners... If they need to embrace pop to keep the ladies interested as well, I'd be cool with that too. Bring on Bruno Mars, Gaga, and Perry.
Taylor Swift - Slipknot - Alt-J for Bonnaroo 2019 y'all.
Last Edit: Apr 15, 2015 11:45:24 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Fests should embrace heavy music a little more. Seems like the only "heavy" acts deemed acceptable are Metallica, Ozzy/Sabbath, Tool, RATM, and Soundgarden. They should expand that pool. I'd be down for some Maiden, System of a Down, or Rammstein as headliners... If they need to embrace pop to keep the ladies interested as well, I'd be cool with that too. Bring on Bruno Mars, Gaga, and Perry.
Taylor Swift - Slipknot - Alt-J for Bonnaroo 2019 y'all.
I don't think the heavy acts appeal to enough people. For example, I know there was a pretty solid amount of disappointment with Slayer on the Roo lineup (not so much around here). Realistically, bands like SOAD and Rammstein are headliner acts, but promoters could book a ton of other acts for the same money that have a much wider appeal and move way more tickets. And to be honest that is a big part of the headliner dilemma, fests like Roo, Coachella, etc. cater to huge audiences so they can't take risks like that.
Even though Hangout got ZBB, they still pulled off the Foo Fighters, Sam Smith (not my taste, but a big draw for a festival right now), and Beck. Firefly was able to get Sir Paul and The Killers (not my taste, but the seem to be a good draw for festivals) and Lolla was able to get Sir Paul AND Metallica.
just to play a little devil's advocate here, couldn't this same thing be said about Mau5, Mumford, and Kendrick (and maybe Billy Joel, especially at a festival that forgoes cutting edge for that cheeseball nostalgia aesthetic sometimes?)
Maybe? As a causal hip-hop fan, the only song from Kendrick that I know the words to and I feel like everybody that is familiar with present day hip-hop knows the words to is "King Kunta". With Mumford, I feel like they peaked in 2012/2013 when Babel was somewhat new to everybody (I Will Wait has over 100 million plays on spotify). As far as Mau5 goes, will that set have a noticeably larger crowd then say Skrillex last year or Pretty Lights the year before? I don't have much knowledge as far as the EDM scene goes.
The problem is that there is a finite number of acts which are considered "big enough" to headline a major festival, so with so many festivals taking place each year, that well runs dry pretty quick and people complain about the boring headliners. Conversely, when a festival tries to step outside the box and elevate an artist to headliner status or bring in a choice out of left field, people complain that the act isn't big enough or whatever. People basically want Radiohead and Daft Punk every year, or some insanely rare reunion or massive legacy artist, but there aren't enough of those to go around. What needs to happen is for festivals to really make a concerted effort to bump some acts into the loop, whether it works or not. You're seeing some of this in 2015, with acts like Kendrick Lamar, Drake, Florence + the Machine, Sam Smith, Mumford, etc. getting the nod. Over the next few seasons, I'd be surprised if acts like Bon Iver, the National, Vampire Weekend, and acts of that level don't start headlining major festivals.
You've already been seeing this for most of the decade. Right after the Grammys / right before the Bonnaroo lineup announcement in '11, #WhoTheFuckAreArcadeFire was trending on Twitter. There was some argument over whether Mumford could headline before they were announced, too. (#WhoTheFuckIsPaulMcCartney was also trending recently, but I'm just going to pretend half of Twitter had conspired to troll all us non-Tweeters). As much as I enjoy the bigger names, I'm also in favour of giving smaller names the bump. I'd rather see Bonnaroo take a chance on an almost-there name (as they did this year with Kendrick) than recycle the same dozen names every few years *yawn*. Most of the earlier-end Baby Boomer acts who dominated classic rock are in their 70s now, or close enough to it, and won't be around forever. To a lot of Bonnaroo's target demographic, it's not dad rock so much as grandpa rock.
Oh, and The National are already a headliner. The other two are still in that almost-but-not-quite purgatory, but The National have already headlined Made In America, Riot Fest, Osheaga, Pukkelpop, Primavera Sound, Sasquatch, and Shaky Knees, plus played venues like the O2 and Carnegie Hall and the Sydney Opera House Forecourt. I will eat my Sanuks if they don't headline their next Bonnaroo appearance.
The National didnt headline MIA they played as a sub before Kanye
What new headliners could we see in te next 2-3 years? Coachella tried with Phoenix and it flopped but Jack White has emerged as a solid newer headliner, Kendirck and Sam Smith are getting their shots this year (not sure if florence has headlined big fests in the past?). Arctic Monekys could be on the verge if they have the same success on their next album as they did with AM.
I was also going to point out that hip-hop is a purely American art form while EDM comes from Europe, but I think EDM wasn't purely European born, since saying that would erroneously ignore the Detroit/Chicago/NYC house scene.
Eh, I don't see either genre as "purely" of one birthplace or being of a single stylistic ancestor. Both hip-hop and electronic music (including EDM) have a common ancestor in (reggae) dub music. Dub grew out of reggae which itself was influenced partly by American jazz and R&B. Afrika Bambaataa is indebted to Yellow Magic Orchestra & Kraftwerk. A great portion of electronic dance music (disco, house, techno) is certainly an American-born art form with countless African, European, and Latin roots. Genres tend to be connected more in a spider web fashion rather than point-to-point.
Fests should embrace heavy music a little more. Seems like the only "heavy" acts deemed acceptable as headliners are Metallica, Ozzy/Sabbath, Tool, NIN, RATM, and Soundgarden. They should expand that pool. I'd be down for some Maiden, System of a Down, or Rammstein as headliners... If they need to embrace pop to keep the ladies interested as well, I'd be cool with that too. Bring on Bruno Mars, Gaga, and Perry.
Taylor Swift - Slipknot - Alt-J for Bonnaroo 2019 y'all.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure Coachella has been trying to book Iron Maiden for years. It's just way more profitable for most big heavier rock acts to stay on the European festival circuit during the summer, so it never works out.
Kind of funny that this thread is popping up a year after one of the DREAM headliners came back and headlined everything under the sun. People everywhere were clamoring for Outkast, everybody got them, they were awesome, so what's the complaint? The year before it was The Cure killing it everywhere. This year we've got huge legacy acts like Metallica, AC/DC, Billy Joel, Elton John, Paul McCartney... it doesn't get much bigger.
Foo Fighters and Kanye West could play "just the hits" shows and crush it as headliners and most would go home happy (like Em did last year). There just aren't that many huge "everybody loves them" acts out there, and the ones that are (Radiohead and the like) are on hiatus. In a year or two we'll see stuff like Gorillaz or Nine Inch Nails floating around again and it'll be cool.
And hey - don't blame the artists that there are a million festivals now. It's not their fault we're all bloated sacs of music fandom. Or maybe it is.
In Bloom Festival 3/18-3/19 Houston, Texas Rock Werchter Festival 7/5-7/8 - Werchter, Belgium Mad Cool Festival 7/12-7/14 - Madrid, Spain Austin City Limits 10/5-10/7 - Austin, Texas
well ya'll, just buy blur's new album so we have a shot at them headlining over here somewhere next year:
"I’m up for doing a bit of touring," says singer Damon Albarn. "But there’s a great question mark when it comes to America with Blur for me...I love America," he says. "It's had a profound effect on me. So I'd like to come back again – but if I don't I'm not going to lose any sleep over it."
Adds Albarn, "It's really up to whether anyone likes [the new album] over there. That's my attitude. If you like it, we might come over. If you don't. . .I wouldn't want to arrive with my suitcase and wide eyes to indifference."
I thought this same thing when I read that article. I haven't purchased an album in a while because of Spotify, but if throwing down 10 or 15 dollars to buy Blur's album gets them over here then that's a cost I'm willing to endure.
just to play a little devil's advocate here, couldn't this same thing be said about Mau5, Mumford, and Kendrick (and maybe Billy Joel, especially at a festival that forgoes cutting edge for that cheeseball nostalgia aesthetic sometimes?)
Maybe? As a causal hip-hop fan, the only song from Kendrick that I know the words to and I feel like everybody that is familiar with present day hip-hop knows the words to is "King Kunta".
This statement is ridiculous, King Kunta isn't even close to his most recognizable song. What about "Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe" "Swimming Pools" "Money Trees" "ADHD" "M.A.A.D. City"
What new headliners could we see in te next 2-3 years? Coachella tried with Phoenix and it flopped but Jack White has emerged as a solid newer headliner, Kendirck and Sam Smith are getting their shots this year (not sure if florence has headlined big fests in the past?). Arctic Monekys could be on the verge if they have the same success on their next album as they did with AM.
Arctic Monkeys will definitely be in the top 3 by their next tour. Phoenix will get another chance at some point. Maybe not Bonnaroo or Coachella, but I could easily see them headlining Hangout or something of that caliber. Vampire Weekend, like zaj said, is going to happen as well. I think what's going to start being the big gets in the coming years is going to be the reunions. Acts like Oasis, original Guns N Roses (which I never see happening), Blur, etc. I think for the most part we're going to see acts start getting promoted to that headliner status, much like Beck, Florence, Kendrick, and Sam Smith (which I still think he is prematurely being titled a "headliner").
The problem is that there is a finite number of acts which are considered "big enough" to headline a major festival, so with so many festivals taking place each year, that well runs dry pretty quick and people complain about the boring headliners. Conversely, when a festival tries to step outside the box and elevate an artist to headliner status or bring in a choice out of left field, people complain that the act isn't big enough or whatever. People basically want Radiohead and Daft Punk every year, or some insanely rare reunion or massive legacy artist, but there aren't enough of those to go around. What needs to happen is for festivals to really make a concerted effort to bump some acts into the loop, whether it works or not. You're seeing some of this in 2015, with acts like Kendrick Lamar, Drake, Florence + the Machine, Sam Smith, Mumford, etc. getting the nod. Over the next few seasons, I'd be surprised if acts like Bon Iver, the National, Vampire Weekend, and acts of that level don't start headlining major festivals.
Headliners help justify the cost of the ticket. The problem with Kendrick as a headliner is not that he's not good enough (of course he is), it's how much would I actually pay to see him. A year ago I could have seen him for $30. To me that doesn't help me justify a $325 ticket even if he was high on my "must see" list. Acts like Paul McCartney, Pearl Jam, and the Rolling Stones help me justify spending so much money on a weekend of music because I may drop $75+ just to see them.
Glastonbury has been going strong for 45 years and has included headlining performances from legendary acts like David Bowie, The Smiths, and the Stones. Oh EDM? Yeah they've done that too (Basement Jaxx/The Chemical Brothers/Moby). But they've also scraped the bottom of the barrel, resorting to acts like Lenny Kravitz and The Black Crowes.
There is no shift here. Festivals will continue to book legendary acts as they are made available, all while bumping mid-level acts to support the cause.
I was also going to point out that hip-hop is a purely American art form while EDM comes from Europe, but I think EDM wasn't purely European born, since saying that would erroneously ignore the Detroit/Chicago/NYC house scene.
Eh, I don't see either genre as "purely" of one birthplace or being of a single stylistic ancestor. Both hip-hop and electronic music (including EDM) have a common ancestor in (reggae) dub music. Dub grew out of reggae which itself was influenced partly by American jazz and R&B. Afrika Bambaataa is indebted to Yellow Magic Orchestra & Kraftwerk. A great portion of electronic dance music (disco, house, techno) is certainly an American-born art form with countless African, European, and Latin roots. Genres tend to be connected more in a spider web fashion rather than point-to-point.
Sure, fair enough. Having said that jazz is generally considered an American art form, even though it clearly goes back to African music, only to America via Congo Square in New Orleans. I was kind of thinking of hip-hop the same way, since it really started with young kids in NYC playing the best parts of their parents records over and over.
Going all the way back we could trace all forms of music to the creation of the drum beat used during caveman funerals to signify the heartbeat. So really all music is caveman funeral music.
Post by thomasmars on Apr 15, 2015 16:17:16 GMT -5
Vampire Weekend will most definitely be headlining major festivals sometime in the next four years. Three near-perfect albums and widespread critical acclaim, I think they deserve it. If Pheonix's next album is even half decent, I think they deserve to headline, just because of the incredible show they put on. I don't think the National has the theatrics or the popularity to headline a major festival. And as for Arctic Monkeys, they've taken the Kings of Leon and Black Keys route to achieve popularity and will probably headline a major fest on their next tour. I do belive young acts like Mumford, Kendrick, and Florence deserve to headline major fests, with alt-J and Tame Impala in the next five years doing the same. Acts like Arcade Fire, Jack White, Muse, and The Strokes, are able, and rightfully so, to headline any fest they want until they're just not trying anymore. Maybe we'll see bands like Weezer, Modest Mouse, Pixies, or even the Shins get to top-5 status in the coming years. Like someone else said, every year can't be Daft Punk - Radiohead - Paul McCartney.
