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My immediate attention turns to Jazmo, simply based on the fact Carini chose to take him into the final runoff on D2, and ultimately left his vote on Jazmo.
However, I've been looking at who's been voting both with and opposite both of the whacks (Jimmy and Carini), trying to see if I can find any patterns in them. I'll go ahead and just put that info up here in case anyone else find it useful.
At this point, I'm going to assume the Mafia thought one of either Jimmy or Carini might be the Inspector. There's no way they'd go for 2 misdirections with the whack.
Looking at that info, a few things jump out at me.
1) Both Dragon and Potent voted along side Carini for both days. While this doesn't fully clear them by any means, it certainly nudges them that direction in my mind. 2) NBF voted along side Jimmy in D1 and Carini in D2. I don't find that as strong as voting along side Carini both days, but the fact that Carini said he was no longer suspicious of NBF later in D2 gives her a little cred in my eyes. 3) Both myself and SFA voted opposite of Carini for both days. I know I'm town, but definitely gives me a little bit of suspicion towards SFA. 4) Jazmo, Farris, and Rummy voted opposite of Jimmy in D1 and Carini in D2.
I don't think I'm quite ready to place my vote yet, but I think it will be between Jazmo and SFA.
Jazmo because Carini chose to take him into the final runoff on D2, and left his vote on him. Jazmo also voted against Jimmy in D1, and Carini in D2. Dragon seems to have been gunning for Jazmo in D2. The fact that Dragon happened to vote along side Carini both days might mean something.
SFA because he and myself were the only ones to vote opposite Carini both days. I know this implicates myself just as much as him, but I know I'm town.
All of this is going on the assumption that one of the two whacks could have been the Inspector. That could be wrong, but that's all I have to go off at the moment.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Globlist Facist Slave Dog
My immediate attention turns to Jazmo, simply based on the fact Carini chose to take him into the final runoff on D2, and ultimately left his vote on Jazmo.
However, I've been looking at who's been voting both with and opposite both of the whacks (Jimmy and Carini), trying to see if I can find any patterns in them. I'll go ahead and just put that info up here in case anyone else find it useful.
At this point, I'm going to assume the Mafia thought one of either Jimmy or Carini might be the Inspector. There's no way they'd go for 2 misdirections with the whack.
Looking at that info, a few things jump out at me.
1) Both Dragon and Potent voted along side Carini for both days. While this doesn't fully clear them by any means, it certainly nudges them that direction in my mind. 2) NBF voted along side Jimmy in D1 and Carini in D2. I don't find that as strong as voting along side Carini both days, but the fact that Carini said he was no longer suspicious of NBF later in D2 gives her a little cred in my eyes. 3) Both myself and SFA voted opposite of Carini for both days. I know I'm town, but definitely gives me a little bit of suspicion towards SFA. 4) Jazmo, Farris, and Rummy voted opposite of Jimmy in D1 and Carini in D2.
I don't think I'm quite ready to place my vote yet, but I think it will be between Jazmo and SFA.
Jazmo because Carini chose to take him into the final runoff on D2, and left his vote on him. Jazmo also voted against Jimmy in D1, and Carini in D2. Dragon seems to have been gunning for Jazmo in D2. The fact that Dragon happened to vote along side Carini both days might mean something.
SFA because he and myself were the only ones to vote opposite Carini both days. I know this implicates myself just as much as him, but I know I'm town.
All of this is going on the assumption that one of the two whacks could have been the Inspector. That could be wrong, but that's all I have to go off at the moment.
Carini voted for everyone that had been in a runoff so far. We don't know if that was strategic and he moved when he got an opportunity. Or if he was just being Carini and switching like he normally does.
I think the timing of Carini and I's votes in round one clears this up fairly well. He opened the third round voting along with me. Which helped push Tainted into the final runoff. So voting along with me didn't seem to be an issue with him. I guess the argument could be made that we ended up voting different was because I was trying to save Tainted. But seeing as how I put him in that position that doesn't really hold water.
In round 2 he seemed to be in agreement with me on a a couple things. I'm not seeing the fact that we didn't vote the same at the end as telling because it's obvious Jazmo and I aren't working together. One of his last posts named two people he was suspicious of that he wasn't voting along with. So I'd say they are on equal footing with you and I when you look at more then how the votes lined up.
But like Rummy said, glad you put all that in one place to look over.
Post by SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal on Dec 3, 2015 17:28:02 GMT -5
I'd like to make the same suggestion as last round and say we put fresh meat in this runoff if we want a chance to win. I'm fine being one. I fount it odd nobody mentioned me much last round.
My immediate attention turns to Jazmo, simply based on the fact Carini chose to take him into the final runoff on D2, and ultimately left his vote on Jazmo.
However, I've been looking at who's been voting both with and opposite both of the whacks (Jimmy and Carini), trying to see if I can find any patterns in them. I'll go ahead and just put that info up here in case anyone else find it useful.
At this point, I'm going to assume the Mafia thought one of either Jimmy or Carini might be the Inspector. There's no way they'd go for 2 misdirections with the whack.
Looking at that info, a few things jump out at me.
1) Both Dragon and Potent voted along side Carini for both days. While this doesn't fully clear them by any means, it certainly nudges them that direction in my mind. 2) NBF voted along side Jimmy in D1 and Carini in D2. I don't find that as strong as voting along side Carini both days, but the fact that Carini said he was no longer suspicious of NBF later in D2 gives her a little cred in my eyes. 3) Both myself and SFA voted opposite of Carini for both days. I know I'm town, but definitely gives me a little bit of suspicion towards SFA. 4) Jazmo, Farris, and Rummy voted opposite of Jimmy in D1 and Carini in D2.
I don't think I'm quite ready to place my vote yet, but I think it will be between Jazmo and SFA.
Jazmo because Carini chose to take him into the final runoff on D2, and left his vote on him. Jazmo also voted against Jimmy in D1, and Carini in D2. Dragon seems to have been gunning for Jazmo in D2. The fact that Dragon happened to vote along side Carini both days might mean something.
SFA because he and myself were the only ones to vote opposite Carini both days. I know this implicates myself just as much as him, but I know I'm town.
All of this is going on the assumption that one of the two whacks could have been the Inspector. That could be wrong, but that's all I have to go off at the moment.
Carini voted for everyone that had been in a runoff so far. We don't know if that was strategic and he moved when he got an opportunity. Or if he was just being Carini and switching like he normally does.
I think the timing of Carini and I's votes in round one clears this up fairly well. He opened the third round voting along with me. Which helped push Tainted into the final runoff. So voting along with me didn't seem to be an issue with him. I guess the argument could be made that we ended up voting different was because I was trying to save Tainted. But seeing as how I put him in that position that doesn't really hold water.
In round 2 he seemed to be in agreement with me on a a couple things. I'm not seeing the fact that we didn't vote the same at the end as telling because it's obvious Jazmo and I aren't working together. One of his last posts named two people he was suspicious of that he wasn't voting along with. So I'd say they are on equal footing with you and I when you look at more then how the votes lined up.
But like Rummy said, glad you put all that in one place to look over.
I don't think the round 1 stuff clears you much at all. If Carini was Inspector and his given name was neither you nor a person in the runoff, how he voted in relation to you bears tells us nothing about your Mafia status. And in the end, he voted for Tainted and you switched off of Tainted.
As for your Round 2 explanations...you're using too many pronouns for me to easily follow what you're saying.
I will agree with you that it's odd that you haven't been mentioned much, especially considering your vote switch late Round 1 - I seem to be the only one to give you much flak for that. But as a self-rebuttal, I'll admit that if you were Mafia I would be an easy target for a whack in that regard, yet here I am. And given my previously-mentioned tendency to be wrong when I think I'm right early in the game, I can see why the Mafia would want to keep me alive if I'm going down the wrong path.
To a certain extent I would like to see new faces in the runoff, but maybe not all new faces...given the amount of vote-switching we've seen this game, I think that one or more Mafia have been at risk at least once. I still have misgivings about Farris, but I need to do a more thorough review of the game before placing a vote.
I would also like to point out that since Farris and I were both in two-person runoffs at the end of the rounds, Farris voting opposite of Jimmy at the end of Round 1 and myself voting opposite Carini at the end of Day 2 don't really mean much. We obviously weren't going to be voting for ourselves in those instances.
Post by SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal on Dec 3, 2015 18:29:31 GMT -5
Wasn't trying to say it totally clears me. I personally don't think it means much either way because Carini switches votes constantly. I was referring specifically to Carini and I not voting together. Which was the main thing he was getting at. My point was that there are examples of Carini being fine voting along with me. More so then any evidence he was pushing Round 1 against anything I was doing.
Round 2: We = Rothric and myself. Two other people= Farris and Jaz. Three if you include the dead Potent. I was simply pointing out the obvious. That he actual expressed were his suspicion was. So I don't see why he thinks the he or I should be singled out.
Wasn't trying to say it totally clears me. I personally don't think it means much either way because Carini switches votes constantly. I was referring specifically to Carini and I not voting together. Which was the main thing he was getting at. My point was that there are examples of Carini being fine voting along with me. More so then any evidence he was pushing Round 1 against anything I was doing.
Round 2: We = Rothric and myself. Two other people= Farris and Jaz. Three if you include the dead Potent. I was simply pointing out the obvious. That he actual expressed were his suspicion was. So I don't see why he thinks the he or I should be singled out.
Opps. I did it again. He being Rothric because he singled out himself and me as the ones that didn't vote along with Carini.
I totally get you on new faces/those that have already been on the chopping block. My thinking was simply that I'd like to have people actually have to make arguments then just put Farris, NBF or you back by just repeating the same reasons. Just a suggestion more then anything. If people see a clear pattern then that's obviously a better choice.
Post by Jim the Luck DЯagon on Dec 3, 2015 22:45:40 GMT -5
Dragon > Jaz
Because this is the clear move y'all. No need to dick around and complicate your lives. Throw Jaz and Farris in a runoff, and see where we go from there.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Globlist Facist Slave Dog
Because this is the clear move y'all. No need to dick around and complicate your lives. Throw Jaz and Farris in a runoff, and see where we go from there.
Do you care to elaborate on this at all?
I haven't had a chance to give the game any time since my last post, but intend to give it another read through tomorrow morning at some point. Will have my vote then.
Meh, I've pretty much lost interest in this game. It's hard to make any kind of informed decision when people won't talk.
I know, but hoping we can get the level of discussion up. It seems the discussion at least picks up a little bit nearer the deadline as the votes come in. So hoping people cast their votes soon so we can try and get something going.
Jim the Luck DЯagon, please expand on your statement about Jazmo and Farris. What in your mind makes them such easy targets for you?
Meh, I've pretty much lost interest in this game. It's hard to make any kind of informed decision when people won't talk.
I know, but hoping we can get the level of discussion up. It seems the discussion at least picks up a little bit nearer the deadline as the votes come in. So hoping people cast their votes soon so we can try and get something going.
Jim the Luck DЯagon , please expand on your statement about Jazmo and Farris. What in your mind makes them such easy targets for you?
What do you think in regards to my reply about you and I having not voted with Carini?
Carini voted for everyone that had been in a runoff so far. We don't know if that was strategic and he moved when he got an opportunity. Or if he was just being Carini and switching like he normally does.
I think the timing of Carini and I's votes in round one clears this up fairly well. He opened the third round voting along with me. Which helped push Tainted into the final runoff. So voting along with me didn't seem to be an issue with him. I guess the argument could be made that we ended up voting different was because I was trying to save Tainted. But seeing as how I put him in that position that doesn't really hold water.
In round 2 he seemed to be in agreement with me on a a couple things. I'm not seeing the fact that we didn't vote the same at the end as telling because it's obvious Jazmo and I aren't working together. One of his last posts named two people he was suspicious of that he wasn't voting along with. So I'd say they are on equal footing with you and I when you look at more then how the votes lined up.
But like Rummy said, glad you put all that in one place to look over.
Regarding your comment about the timing of your and Carini's vote in D1, I don't think that really clears you at all. Yes, Carini did open up D1R3 voting for Tainted, whom you already had your vote on from D1R2. However, you ended up switching your vote before D1 was over. So yes, at one point you did vote with him, but I'm primarily concerned where the votes ended up at the end of the Day.
Regarding the D2 votes, I'm not ready to declare it obvious that you and Jazmo are not working together. Not saying it's likely, but still a very grey area for me.
For Carini's last post, he named Jaz, Potent, and Farris as the ones he was suspicious of. Potent was lynched, Jaz has a vote this round, and I placed my vote on Farris this round. So yes, I'm absolutely looking at them as well and not necessarily zeroing in on you right now.
I started typing up a post but first I have a question for Rothric: in your analysis of the whack, you noted that me, Farris, and Rummy all voted against both whacked players. You mentioned having suspicion of me and SFA, and voted for Farris. But you make no further mention of suspicion of Rummy, even though the same evidence implicates her. Why is that?
Carini voted for everyone that had been in a runoff so far. We don't know if that was strategic and he moved when he got an opportunity. Or if he was just being Carini and switching like he normally does.
I think the timing of Carini and I's votes in round one clears this up fairly well. He opened the third round voting along with me. Which helped push Tainted into the final runoff. So voting along with me didn't seem to be an issue with him. I guess the argument could be made that we ended up voting different was because I was trying to save Tainted. But seeing as how I put him in that position that doesn't really hold water.
In round 2 he seemed to be in agreement with me on a a couple things. I'm not seeing the fact that we didn't vote the same at the end as telling because it's obvious Jazmo and I aren't working together. One of his last posts named two people he was suspicious of that he wasn't voting along with. So I'd say they are on equal footing with you and I when you look at more then how the votes lined up.
But like Rummy said, glad you put all that in one place to look over.
Regarding your comment about the timing of your and Carini's vote in D1, I don't think that really clears you at all. Yes, Carini did open up D1R3 voting for Tainted, whom you already had your vote on from D1R2. However, you ended up switching your vote before D1 was over. So yes, at one point you did vote with him, but I'm primarily concerned where the votes ended up at the end of the Day.
Regarding the D2 votes, I'm not ready to declare it obvious that you and Jazmo are not working together. Not saying it's likely, but still a very grey area for me.
For Carini's last post, he named Jaz, Potent, and Farris as the ones he was suspicious of. Potent was lynched, Jaz has a vote this round, and I placed my vote on Farris this round. So yes, I'm absolutely looking at them as well and not necessarily zeroing in on you right now.
I guess I should have worded it better. I'm not saying it clears me. I don't really even use the term "cleared" like others do. That came along after me. I said the timing of the vote clears things up, at least in my eyes but I know my role so that's to be expected. And, as I've already said, I helped placed the person I would've been "saving" in the runoff in the first place. I was also fairly vocal about not voting for at least one person that ended up being innocent.
Okay, maybe not obvious. But I'd like to see an example in a past game of two mafia drawing attention to themselves at the end of the first round like that.
Like I've said, it's hard to tell with Carini. He tends to switch votes a good bit and be vocal about who he's suspicious of. I'm not so sure how much weight to put on any of it.
I started typing up a post but first I have a question for Rothric: in your analysis of the whack, you noted that me, Farris, and Rummy all voted against both whacked players. You mentioned having suspicion of me and SFA, and voted for Farris. But you make no further mention of suspicion of Rummy, even though the same evidence implicates her. Why is that?
That's the only piece that points to Rummy that I've seen. For Farris, he has the whack of Jimmy to further implicate him. For you, there's Carini's whack.
She's not cleared in my mind at all, just definitely below this other group in my level of suspicion.
Like I've said, it's hard to tell with Carini. He tends to switch votes a good bit and be vocal about who he's suspicious of. I'm not so sure how much weight to put on any of it.
Not that his opinion doesn't have value. I meant more that it's hard to narrow down if it was just his basic suspicions or if he actual was making hints.
Not sure how wise a late vote switch is but something about all this is nagging me. Enough where I'd rather shake up a rather boring game then come to regret not doing something later. Not that I really think Farris is anymore guilty. It's more a matter of who I'd rather vote along with. Two
For one, Potent's post are really not setting well with me. Especially his given reason for voting for Jimmy in the last runoff. Then the weird back and forth he's had with one or two others.
I also feel voting along with some of the other runoff survivors is a better place to have my vote. As I highly doubt both of them could be mafia, so I can have some peace of mine knowing they have no agenda.
Okay, so you mention here that Potent's posts are "really not setting well" with you. At this point, it is Farris v. Tainted in the run off, so it isn't like you can move your vote onto Potent at this point in the round. However, you clearly state your suspicions of him here.
As for the whack. I don't think Jimmy was inspector.
He seemed pretty neutral when mentioning those in the final runoff, so I don't think he would have been pointing to them. He even mentioned the mafia likely being thrilled with the 4-way runoff. Which doesn't mean a mafia wasn't in there but I think it's safe to assume he didn't have one of the three other names.
Having said that, he did ask Jaz to change his vote to Tainted but I think that was more of a direct question then a hint.
So.... who knows?
This whole post read as fairly confusing/vague to me, ending in the question "so...who knows?" - and I have tended to find SFA's posts as town very helpful and easy to follow in the past. That isn't hard evidence of anything whatsoever, but it is something I noticed.
I usually like to have fresh meat in the second runoff but I can't really disagree with what NBF and Jaz have said. I am a little worried that if we are on the wrong trail having the same folks brought up over and over will muddy the water, so I'd at least like to expand the search.
Just some random thoughts as I was looking this over.
I like to look at names that the whacked player(s) didn't vote along with, but that's even less telling since Jimmy voted for Farris early and left his vote there. Jimmy was also in the runoff so his vote might not be that telling one way or the other.
One other oddity was when Carini and Rummy pushed the third runoff in Tainted's direction. One could argue the mafia might have seen opinions changing on Jimmy and figured Tainted would be easier to get voted off in the last runoff?
I'll go with Rummy for now, but I'm certainly open to what people have to say because I'm not convinced of this myself. Partly just trying to get the ball rolling.
SFA >>> Rummy
Okay so you had these suspicions of Potent by the end of D1. Then as you post to place your vote on D2R1, you don't mention him AT ALL. What changed? You put me into the running instead because you want a new face. That's fine - but it makes me wonder why you've dropped your earlier suspicions of Potent.
I'd like to make the same suggestion as last round and say we put fresh meat in this runoff if we want a chance to win. I'm fine being one. I fount it odd nobody mentioned me much last round.
Then you say this again, that you want fresh meat.... and you vote for me again at the beginning of the day. Like you did in D2. How is that the best application of putting "fresh meat" into the run off?
Knowing I am town, it is suspicious to me that you've now voted for me twice without much reason - and on one of the days (d2), you had actually previously stated reasonable suspicion over someone else, who you chose to not vote for.
In summation: you seem to be playing differently this game. so my vote is on you. I want to see where things go from here.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
I guess I should have worded it better. I'm not saying it clears me. I don't really even use the term "cleared" like others do. That came along after me. I said the timing of the vote clears things up, at least in my eyes but I know my role so that's to be expected. And, as I've already said, I helped placed the person I would've been "saving" in the runoff in the first place. I was also fairly vocal about not voting for at least one person that ended up being innocent.
Are you talking about a connection between yourself and Carini, yourself and Tainted, or yourself and Jazmo in this part?
Okay, maybe not obvious. But I'd like to see an example in a past game of two mafia drawing attention to themselves at the end of the first round like that.
You're talking about Jazmo in this part, correct? If so, I agree, it's not likely, but if both you did happen to be Mafia I wouldn't but it past you two. You're both very experienced and could pull something like that off, would give good distancing later in the game.
Like I've said, it's hard to tell with Carini. He tends to switch votes a good bit and be vocal about who he's suspicious of. I'm not so sure how much weight to put on any of it.
Agreed completely. But that's a good portion of what we have to go on at this point.
I guess I should have worded it better. I'm not saying it clears me. I don't really even use the term "cleared" like others do. That came along after me. I said the timing of the vote clears things up, at least in my eyes but I know my role so that's to be expected. And, as I've already said, I helped placed the person I would've been "saving" in the runoff in the first place. I was also fairly vocal about not voting for at least one person that ended up being innocent.
Are you talking about a connection between yourself and Carini, yourself and Tainted, or yourself and Jazmo in this part?
Sorry, should have split up the quote. I just started Homeland and got lazy.
Yes, the main topic of Carini and I not voting together. So more the lack of connection. I brought up the vote for Tainted as that's the lynchpin. Then added that I voted along and was vocal about the innocence of the first person whacked.
Okay, maybe not obvious. But I'd like to see an example in a past game of two mafia drawing attention to themselves at the end of the first round like that.
You're talking about Jazmo in this part, correct? If so, I agree, it's not likely, but if both you did happen to be Mafia I wouldn't but it past you two. You're both very experienced and could pull something like that off, would give good distancing later in the game.
Right. This was the only part I was specking about Jaz. I mean, I guess that's true but it's just creating trouble for possibly two members of the mafia. Seems very unwise when theoretically we would have been fine with the runoff going either way. It would certainly be a strong distancing move. Which begs the question why I'd even bring it up in the context I did?
Like I've said, it's hard to tell with Carini. He tends to switch votes a good bit and be vocal about who he's suspicious of. I'm not so sure how much weight to put on any of it.
Agreed completely. But that's a good portion of what we have to go on at this point.
SFA, unless I'm missing something you're trying to say, I still don't see how your vote of Tainted in D1R2 shows there's no connection between yourself and Carini.
Yes, Carini started D1R3 with a vote on Tainted, but then you ultimately changed yours before the day was over. Without me knowing both Carini and your roles, I can't draw much from it beyond you two ended up not voting together in the end. Maybe your Mafia, maybe both of you are town. I can't say at this point.
