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Post by jmuppett7686 on Feb 12, 2016 0:34:21 GMT -5
They probably are cancelling the festival due to low ticket sales because besides Sia and Disclosure they book acts that noone gives a fuck about outside of these forums. Like I previously said the average person doesn't care about Robyn or Odesza as headliners, the other years had artists people have heard of and aren't just a niche.
Who knows, there are so many possibilities, some of which are good or bad news for the local festival scene...
*LiveNation, who already own a whole bunch of the big festivals, are stepping into the local festival market in late Summer/early Fall with an as yet to be announced event, and Crashline couldn't compete. (Suffolk Downs? 53 acres on the T, with parking, and a history of concerts and multiple stage fests like Warped and Guinness Fleadh.)
*Crashline/Boston Calling is moving up in size next year to larger space (Suffolk Downs, for the aforementioned reasons) and doing one event with multiple concurrent stages.
*Financial losses due to not bringing in enough ticket/sponsorship revenue vs. talent and other costs.
The sad thing is that if it's due to financial loss, there's no guarantee that they'll do even one edition next year. Boston Calling could be done for good. While it seems reasonable to assume that LiveNation or Bowery Boston or someone else would step in to fill the hole, there's no guarantee of that. After all, despite the Boston metro area being somewhere between the 6th and 12th largest metropolitan area/media market in the U.S., depending up the criteria, we didn't have a festival until 2013.
When you think about some of the places that do have festivals -- St. Louis, Delaware, Alabama, Calgary -- it's very clear that even with Boston Calling, we've been under-served in terms of number and size of festivals here.
For those of us who can't travel to other fests, due to work and/or family obligations, money, health, or whatever, this is doubly disappointing. Especially for those of us who were hoping for some very different sounding headliners in September.
What do all those aforementioned places have in common... a lackluster to nonexistent touring scene! The vast majority of artists come to Boston for their own shows throughout the year, so there isn't the need for a festival to fill in the gaps. Especially when these shows tend to offer a much better experience for music lovers/fans of the respective acts in terms of longer setlists and production values (imagine seeing an early afternoon BC act such as Battles or UMO on a smaller dark stage full of ambiance).
You mention Live Nation, but they have a vested interest in venues such as Xfinity Center, House of Blues, and the Paradise Rock Club. Why would they put on a new festival in the area when they have those places to fill each season? In addition, not sure if you've been to Made in America in Philly which is run by Live Nation, but it's terribly organized. They're the last promoter who should be running a fest.
As for why BC may not be put on in September, I wonder if it has to do with a lack of touring of Tier II level talent who would be booked as headliners.
Live Nation actually owns a controlling interest, or minority share, in 60 major festivals worldwide, including Bonnaroo, Lollapalooza, and Austin City Limits.
Doing a festival in a market where they run most of the regular concert venues is good business. Book an act at your festival, and then the locals impressed by their festival set will pay to see them headline when you bring them to your club or theater months later. I'm going to see Jason Isbell at the House Of Blues later this month specifically because I was so impressed by his Boston Calling set.
As far as filling their other venues during the summer months, amphitheaters around the country have turned into profit centers for acts who don't really fit into the modern festival vibe: classic rock dinosaurs, mainstream country hat acts, and teen pop comprise most of the amphitheater lineups. Plus, a lot of acts willfully decide to do only (or mostly) festivals during the summer these days, so it's a festival booking or nothing for a lot of artists during festival season.
Live Nation actually owns a controlling interest, or minority share, in 60 major festivals worldwide, including Bonnaroo, Lollapalooza, and Austin City Limits.
Doing a festival in a market where they run most of the regular concert venues is good business. Book an act at your festival, and then the locals impressed by their festival set will pay to see them headline when you bring them to your club or theater months later. I'm going to see Jason Isbell at the House Of Blues later this month specifically because I was so impressed by his Boston Calling set.
As far as filling their other venues during the summer months, amphitheaters around the country have turned into profit centers for acts who don't really fit into the modern festival vibe: classic rock dinosaurs, mainstream country hat acts, and teen pop comprise most of the amphitheater lineups. Plus, a lot of acts willfully decide to do only (or mostly) festivals during the summer these days, so it's a festival booking or nothing for a lot of artists during festival season.
Sure, LN wants to expand their market power and get into more festivals. We really don't know for sure whether it's good business sense for them to do so in Boston, since we don't have access to their financial records and projections.
I've read all pages in this thread and correct me if I'm wrong, but your thesis seems to be that LN starting a large Boston festival would be a net positive for the New England music scene, whereas I don't see it as A) easily doable in the grand scheme and B) improving the local live scene. Unless you mean specifically just for those who are unable to travel to other festivals, though that's warrants a response along the lines of "too bad/tough shit".
The fests you mention with LN-interest are different from MIA Fest, in that another company or entity runs the operations. You know how Xfinity Center has no re-entry, overpriced alcohol, food options limited to fries and crappy chicken nuggets, and other corporate B.S.? MIA Fest suffers from those same issues, do you really want that replicated in Boston?
A festival booking or nothing... well, no. The following acts are on the 2016 lineups of either GovBall or Firefly and are playing here this spring/summer:
Florence and the Machine (in an amphitheatre no less!) Of Monsters and Men Chvrches Bloc Party FJM Lord Huron Ellie Goulding The 1975
Similar situation last summer with Lana Del Rey (amphitheatre, again), Flume, Little Dragon, ODESZA, Morrissey, Weird Al, Hot Chip, Noel Gallagher, The Kooks.
In addition, I would suggest that while seeing multiple festival sets offer more quantity for your money, it doesn't always result in a equivalent qualitative concert experience (shorter sets, daylight, oversized stages, logistical issues). Plenty of lineups or special bookings look great on paper, but result in underwhelming or disappointing shows (e.g., Bjork at GovBall). The industry is fully aware of this and many times they are using festivalslots as a teaser or advertisement for a future venue show, essentially making the consumer pay twice on the same tour cycle. Not a bad thing if you can afford or deal with it, but it's just another factor contributing to what's become a live music bubble that will eventually deflate or burst (given the annual increases in prices as well as competition from Europe and other parts of the country).
Post by The Foot Fuckin' Master on Feb 12, 2016 15:43:59 GMT -5
Meanwhile, 99% chance that Miike Snow will play on Saturday since they would have to play five days in a row if they played on Sunday (see tour schedule at miikesnow.com/)
Live Nation actually owns a controlling interest, or minority share, in 60 major festivals worldwide, including Bonnaroo, Lollapalooza, and Austin City Limits.
Doing a festival in a market where they run most of the regular concert venues is good business. Book an act at your festival, and then the locals impressed by their festival set will pay to see them headline when you bring them to your club or theater months later. I'm going to see Jason Isbell at the House Of Blues later this month specifically because I was so impressed by his Boston Calling set.
As far as filling their other venues during the summer months, amphitheaters around the country have turned into profit centers for acts who don't really fit into the modern festival vibe: classic rock dinosaurs, mainstream country hat acts, and teen pop comprise most of the amphitheater lineups. Plus, a lot of acts willfully decide to do only (or mostly) festivals during the summer these days, so it's a festival booking or nothing for a lot of artists during festival season.
Sure, LN wants to expand their market power and get into more festivals. We really don't know for sure whether it's good business sense for them to do so in Boston, since we don't have access to their financial records and projections.
I've read all pages in this thread and correct me if I'm wrong, but your thesis seems to be that LN starting a large Boston festival would be a net positive for the New England music scene, whereas I don't see it as A) easily doable in the grand scheme and B) improving the local live scene. Unless you mean specifically just for those who are unable to travel to other festivals, though that's warrants a response along the lines of "too bad/tough shit".
The fests you mention with LN-interest are different from MIA Fest, in that another company or entity runs the operations. You know how Xfinity Center has no re-entry, overpriced alcohol, food options limited to fries and crappy chicken nuggets, and other corporate B.S.? MIA Fest suffers from those same issues, do you really want that replicated in Boston?
A festival booking or nothing... well, no. The following acts are on the 2016 lineups of either GovBall or Firefly and are playing here this spring/summer:
Florence and the Machine (in an amphitheatre no less!) Of Monsters and Men Chvrches Bloc Party FJM Lord Huron Ellie Goulding The 1975
Similar situation last summer with Lana Del Rey (amphitheatre, again), Flume, Little Dragon, ODESZA, Morrissey, Weird Al, Hot Chip, Noel Gallagher, The Kooks.
In addition, I would suggest that while seeing multiple festival sets offer more quantity for your money, it doesn't always result in a equivalent qualitative concert experience (shorter sets, daylight, oversized stages, logistical issues). Plenty of lineups or special bookings look great on paper, but result in underwhelming or disappointing shows (e.g., Bjork at GovBall). The industry is fully aware of this and many times they are using festivalslots as a teaser or advertisement for a future venue show, essentially making the consumer pay twice on the same tour cycle. Not a bad thing if you can afford or deal with it, but it's just another factor contributing to what's become a live music bubble that will eventually deflate or burst (given the annual increases in prices as well as competition from Europe and other parts of the country).
All good points. (I didn't mean to suggest that all or even most bands only do festivals or traditional venues during the summer, but there are always a handful of acts each year who just do the festivals, including the first batch of The Replacements reunion dates and the entire Outkast thing from two years ago.)
As far as your "tough shiz" comment for those who can't/won't travel, all "in town" festivals draw a significant proportion of attendees from their immediate local area. I spent many years working for a Chicago-based company and a lot of my colleagues went to Lolla every year, and a good number also did Pitchfork and others. If you're a festival promoter, you want to sell as many tickets as possible and locations which are convenient to both road trippers and local folks increases number of tickets you sell.
You're absolutely right about the headlining gig at a traditional venue usually being a better way to see an act, but I don't know anyone who can afford to drop $25 - $125 to see every single act which appeals to them in the slightest, nor who has the energy to go out every night of the week. Festivals give people the opportunity to see acts which might interest them, while not appealing to them enough to spend the big bucks to see them headline. I'm glad I got a chance to see Alabama Shakes last year at BC, because they're a band I'd be unlikely to pay $65 to see...to paraphrase Nick Lowe, I like them, I don't love them.
When I first started going to shows as a teen in the 70's, ticket prices ranged from $3 - $8 per show, even for arena shows, so you could afford to see anyone who was remotely interesting to you. And while prices rose steadily over the years, I was still paying $10 - $25 for arena shows well into the 80's. Today, the festival format gives you the opportunity to see artists who may not crack your own personal "top line," but in whom you have some interest or curiosity, without spending an amount of money unwarranted by your personal interest level in the performers.
Last Edit: Feb 16, 2016 10:55:42 GMT -5 by tw12 - Back to Top
Post by The Foot Fuckin' Master on Feb 16, 2016 15:29:25 GMT -5
All good points. The money thing remains the most attractive USP for festivals, and I'm also happy to have seen War on Drugs, Beck, Run the Jewels, and Ben Howard (amongst many others) without having had to pay separately for them. It's a shame though that the festival format nowadays is more about the event itself and the grand scale catharsis that comes with it, which attracts a traditionally non-festival crowd and becomes more about the party rather than the music. But that extends to all the big majors and not just BC.
I got the impression from Snow's comments that, although he danced around the subject a bit, once they found out that they could get some pop/electro/dance heavyweights to headline and second line, they decided to go more heavily in a non-rock direction throughout the festival, to make the entire package more attractive to people who are excited by headliners like these.
This way, they avoid the sorts of days they've been having where the festival plays to one segment of the audience hard for 3 acts in a row and then abruptly shifts tone for the next few acts. For example, Sat last Sept where after Malkmus -> Simpson -> Misty, there was an abrupt shift to pop/synth/dance for the rest of the day. And that weird tonal shift the next day when Daughter had to follow two of the harder rocking bands they've ever booked at BC. I get the impression that this May is the sort of lineup where they can schedule all three days and have more seamless transitions from act-to-act. You could follow Courtney Barnett with HAIM -- who triangulate guitar rock, hip hop beats, and pop influence -- and then go into a pop or EDM headliner or second liner.
Nothing here about interest in moving to larger site, whether or not there will be a September edition, or whether it will even be back next year. Of course, pledgemusic.com doesn't seem like the kind of media outlet that they'd use to announce any info as big as the above. Interesting to note, though, that in no way does Snow discuss the challenges of doing two editions of Boston Calling in one year, unless I missed something, although he does discuss doing Boston Calling and Eaux Claires.
Another interesting development...I noticed a small Boston Calling poster in a store window this evening. At the bottom of the poster was something along the lines of Biggest Discounted Price Available (paraphrased), along with a promo code to enter when you buy tickets online.
This suggests that the person here who said that this lineup won't sell as many tickets as past editions may have hit the nail on the head. It sounds like ticket sales to date may be lagging behind previous editions at this point of the winter, and they're looking to make the pricing more attractive. If you start seeing Boston Calling tickets on Groupon, Living Social, or Goldstar at half-price or close to it soon, it will take a highlighter pen to the low-ticket sales theory.
The store window in question is a block from my apartment, so I'll jot down the promo code and details tomorrow and post it here, in case someone wants to take advantage of the discounted pricing.
Has anyone else noticed that although it's been a while since Vanyaland ran the story mentioning that BC is only doing a May edition this year, absolutely none of the usual suspects -- RadioBDC, Bradley's Almanac, Boston Tweet, Allston Pudding, Globe, Herald, etc. -- ran a similar item? When one news outlet runs a story and nobody else in traditional or new media will touch that story in the days that follow, it suggests that the original item may have been incorrect.
I suppose we'll get confirmation one way or the other in April, when they'd normally put Sept early bird tickets on sale. If we don't hear anything about Sept tickets, that will speak volumes.
Post by The Foot Fuckin' Master on Feb 18, 2016 9:11:41 GMT -5
Tentative plan,
Friday: Get in line super early for a spot in the first few front rows. Saturday: Start off with Battles and stick through everything with the possible exception of Borns and City and Colour. Sunday: Most scattershot for my taste, large gap between Vince Staples and Janelle Monae. Will probably check out Bradley and Front Bottoms to see what the hype is all about. Elle King can suck it.
Post by theeimportance on Feb 18, 2016 9:35:39 GMT -5
Not a bad breakdown. Only two acts per day that I have no interest in seeing which seems better than usual. Waiting for Alabama Shakes like September was just brutal.
Post by The Foot Fuckin' Master on Feb 18, 2016 10:29:33 GMT -5
Potential problem with tickets sales is that after last year's Goldstar deal and a history of being able to obtain day-tickets below face value through Craigslist, people may be hesitant to pay full price through Eventbrite. Which in turn becomes a downward cycle/race to the bottom.
Potential problem with tickets sales is that after last year's Goldstar deal and a history of being able to obtain day-tickets below face value through Craigslist, people may be hesitant to pay full price through Eventbrite. Which in turn becomes a downward cycle/race to the bottom.
Potential problem with tickets sales is that after last year's Goldstar deal and a history of being able to obtain day-tickets below face value through Craigslist, people may be hesitant to pay full price through Eventbrite. Which in turn becomes a downward cycle/race to the bottom.
How much was the discount?
Last May I paid like $35 or $40 for a Friday ticket
So should I not worry about them releasing "limited" single day tickets tomorrow? They will definitely sell more single day passes when it gets closer? Only eye-ing Saturday!
So should I not worry about them releasing "limited" single day tickets tomorrow? They will definitely sell more single day passes when it gets closer? Only eye-ing Saturday!
Yeah, this was indeed from last year, which is what has some people believing it will happen again this year.
"Limited" is a broad definition, but it's good karma just to buy the ticket right away if there's acts that you really want to see.
These breakdowns make the lineup look even stronger to me. The only ones I'm not interested in are Miike Snow and The Front Bottoms. Elle King could go either way, but I saw her open for Of Monsters and Men a few times and she was good back then. I'm interested to see where she's come since then.
So should I not worry about them releasing "limited" single day tickets tomorrow? They will definitely sell more single day passes when it gets closer? Only eye-ing Saturday!
To the best of my knowledge, the only individual day to ever sell out at Boston Calling was Saturday in Fall '14, the Childish Gambino/Lorde (and crazy weather) day. I managed to sell my Saturday ticket that morning for what I paid for it as part of the three-day package precisely because it was sold out. I think that Lorde single-handedly drove ticket sales that day; she was blowing up huge at the time, appealing to everyone from teens who saw her as an intelligent voice of their generation to old folks who dig her songwriting chops and her refusal to play either Hello Kitty or sex object, the way most female teen performers do.
I don't think that there's any signature act at this festival who will drive one day sales on a particular day.
We may get thrown a particular curveball, though, if ticket sales are very low, which could then drive sales for a particular day and lead to a one day sellout.
It seems like a couple of acts cancel every edition and are replaced by other acts. If anyone cancels this is an opportunity to book someone else who could attract more ticket buyers. Rather than find a similar early day or mid-afternoon performer, they could add someone, put them on as Red Stage closer or the day's headliner and move everyone else down a spot. . Basically, a big-ish name who appeals to fans who aren't thrilled with this lineup.
Post by theeimportance on Feb 18, 2016 12:55:27 GMT -5
Yeah, normally day by day break ups disappoint me, but they did a solid job of grouping together a lot of the good stuff. Not too keen on Disclosure being the last act, but I can deal.
Other than their new album, Miike Snow has a really strong catalog, and puts on a great show. Their 2010 set at Bonnaroo was basically a long DJ set where they transitioned from one song to another without stopping. Unless you realllly dislike their music, I wouldn't miss their set.
Post by jmuppett7686 on Feb 18, 2016 13:06:35 GMT -5
I'll probably go on Sunday. Every band I was interested in seeing is that day except City & Colour and Surfjan. Moving to Boston at the end of the month too so Ill be able to just take the Bus down to City Hall. Hopefully will be able to snag a ticket for cheap.
We're local, we don't use LiveNation, we have had Grammy winners perform, kids under 12 are free, historical location, and we have been in the game for 25 years.
We're local, we don't use LiveNation, we have had Grammy winners perform, kids under 12 are free, historical location, and we have been in the game for 25 years.
Why would anyone choose between a series of unrelated concerts and a multi-day multi-stage city festival?
Post by der sokfest on Feb 18, 2016 13:30:44 GMT -5
We have a more sophisticated crowd. Most of the attendees are in their 40s. It's more intimate than a music festival like bonnaroo and boston calling because at music festivals, the artist only address the mass. I guess its not for everyone if you don't have the time or money. Our season passes are like $500. Right after Bonnaroo 2014, I had to straight to work for the series. I was an intern back then. The first concert of the series that year was on June 19, my birthday, and we had Ziggy Marley perform. Right after the show, I get an early leave to celebrate my birthday, Ziggy comes up to me and tells me "I heard from your boss it's your birthday, Happy birthday Mon!" The son of Bob Marley made my night...
Plus all great music festivals started small, local, and homegrown. Idk why there are so many music festivals without any history prior to 2010... Any music festival that started post-2010 is just money making thrash.
