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Ok a lot has been discussed here so I wont't dive into a huge post like I did with thor last round.
A couple of reasons why I think zig is full of shit.
1. He is the third player that Viking admitted he had suspicions for before zig "revealed". It seems a little (ok a lot) suspicious that one of the players viking has suspicions of comes out to refute his inspector claim. This alone cannot prove zig is lying though. Good thing I have more reasons!
2. Zig had said day 1 that the best way to "force mafia's hand" has to have them kill viking during the night. Now if zig is inspector than at this point of the game he knows that SFA (given name) and Viking are both mafia. This is the same amount of information that he had during his reveal. Now from the games I have read I would consider zig to be a competent player and a competent player who is inspector in that situation in day 1 should have known a) Viking would have not have been the night kill and b) his reveal would be less believable at any point after day 1. If zig is telling the truth he has the blood of thor on his hands (don't think he's telling the truth) and he has done the town a disfavor for waiting this long to reveal.
3. Zig stated at the beginning of day 2 he wanted to wait to take any actions until he heard from viking. Why? At this point you would have already known he was mafia - why do you want to hear from him? Shouldn't you be... ya know... helping town win the game?
4. He is stretching for reasons to call me suspicious. Yes I understand "he thinks I'm mafia so he must be mafia" is not a good reason to be suspicious. However, how does posting the post count too early d1 make me mafia? Yes I understand this is my first game however, I would like to think I am being a pretty good townie right now (unlike what you would be if you were actually inspector).
So yeah I could dive a bit deeper but I think kdogg did a good enough job on that already. I don't really see a reason to move my vote at this time as I believe Mike D is also mafia. Sorry zig it was a good effort. I did like reading your reveal posts though.
ZIG not everything in this post is phrased in a question but I'd like to hear a response.
Missed memo that my meeting is slightly delayed. I have time enough for a quick post before I get to it.
I'm accused of "blindly following" Viking? I beg to differ there.
I mentioned when he claimed that game conditions guaranteed a counter-claim was possible. I did research into Viking's claim. ICYMI, ZIG, I went over everyone's statements about his accused (Mike D) from the start to his reveal. It checks out to me. I never said the mere existence of a counter-claim would disprove Viking's in my mind. I feel I weighed both claims on their own merits.
Another ICYMI: Rather than let things drift toward a runoff without either Inspector candidate, I've been pushing to flip the script to include them exclusively. True, I'm voting ZIG because I think his claim has a fatal flaw. But I'm pushing for a runoff in which Viking is just as eligible for a lynch as ZIG beyond my lone vote.
So spare me this "blindly following" bullshit. Gotta leave it at that, meeting time.
IMO this is an irrelevant argument. I know that I am the real inspector. I had no control over who Viking named in his fake reveal. It would have made my reveal a lot easier if Viking hadn't named me but that was out of my control. As I stated, however, in my reveal posts, the goal of the Inspector is to stay hidden as long as possible and find the Mafia. When Viking named me, that gave me the confidence that I would not be the N1 whack.
This question is almost laughable. The "blood on thor's hands" but especially. I would suggest going back and reviewing Mafia 92. Virtually the same situation occurred. LD v Thor in the final runoff. LD revealed himself as Inspector when the votes were against him. Everyone switched their votes (including Thor voting himself out) and voted out Townie Thor. During Night 1, the Mafia whacked Inspector LD and we moved forward and we moved forward on Day 2 with no issues. This is common gameplay so to say that Thor's blood is on my hands is complete nonsense.
Additionally, once Viking made his reveal on Day 1, he confirmed for me that he was Mafia along with my given name SFA. I could have come out at that point, but that would have only been to the benefit of the Mafia. Here's how it would work. Viking potential would get killed. I would be the N1 whack, and I wouldn't get a guess but would also get confirmed as the Inspector. So by me waiting to reveal until Day 2, I was able to confirm Potent as a town, and Jaz as town because he was whacked. From the view of a noob townie, this may not seem like much, but for an inspector, by holding my reveal, I was able to get 2 townies roles revealed.
This is called strategy. Based on my points above, Viking not getting whacked should have been a huge red flag for the remaining townies as a real inspector reveal leads to their death. I was hoping that by Viking not getting whacked, there would be a good amount of discussion. I wanted to see how players, who's roles I didn't not know (yours included), would react and vote to availing still being alive. This was a post from Rummy responding to you during the beginning of Day 2.
If Viking is lying why hasn't the real inspector come forward yet? I'm not voting yet but I'm leaning toward Viking telling the truth right now. I don't think jaz could be the inspector and there's no way Thor could be either. If the real inspector was out there I would imagine he or she would have revealed by now.
Playing the inspector role is tough as shit. If you feel like as town you're often second guessing yourself - your theories and your subsequent actions - it is so much worse as inspector because you do have SOME info but also are working hard to keep yourself hidden while still giving the town something to work with. It is super stressful.
I don't think it is out of the question that our inspector is still out there and trying to make it to day three
I don't really think that would be the best strategy here, if Viking was lying, but someone else in the inspector shoes might think it is. Again, that role is hard to negotiate figuring out the right thing to do and say, and when to do/say those things.
As Rummy says, being Inspector is tough as shit. I was hoping that the town would see the red flags around Viking's reveal and act accordingly. This would have kept my cover intact. Unfortunately, if you go back and look, I was hinting quite heavily before my reveal that I had questions about Viking's reveal and basically everyone shrugged them off, Kdogg being the most against my posts. So at that point, seeing that I was not going to get the town down the correct path, I had to reveal and begin advocating.
Go back and look at my gameplay history, I routinely put out lists of potential roles during games. This game was not unique, the only difference is that I have a lot more information compared to when I put out lists as a townie.(and as full disclosure, I typically out out lists when i am Mafia). When I put out a list I try to group players. Confirmed players like whacks etc are easy. Otherwise I place players into groups of: suspicious, unknown, lean town.
Go back and review. I never said you were Mafia, I said you were suspicious. I arrived on that assessment based on all the information I had at the time. In this game, from my inspector perspective, there were a lot of roles that I had confirmed. Only 4 I didn't feel comfortable about yet to varying degrees. you, Carini, Rummy, Kdogg.
Initially, I felt like Kdogg and Rummy leaned town. You and Carini, were difficult because you are new and Carini was quiet. So that didn't give me a good read. I've played with Kdogg and Rummy before.
Since my reveal, I feel more comfortable that Rummy is Town. Carini I have no clue, and Kdogg now seems extremely suspicious. I know 2 Mafia, so I know both you and Kdogg can't be Mafia. So I would currently lean towards Kdogg.
On a side note. I think Viking's comments about Kdogg are quite interesting. At one point he said that he knew there was Mafia between Kdogg and Thor, then at a different point, he said Kdogg is basically really easy to figure out and is town.
Kdogg is probably one of highest posters in Mafia games. He typically will respond to just about anything. So I find it interesting that he has come at me so hard and has basically avoided Viking.
And finally, this feels like a Day 5 game. And in a Day 5, the 1 Mafia only needs to convince 1 townie. And from my perspective, you are currently that one townie.
I would encourage all players to go back and review Kdogg and Viking's interactions since Viking's reveal compared to Kdogg and My interactions after my reveal.
I did a quick look and basically could only find about 5 posts where Kdogg specifically asked Viking questions about being inspector. All the rest where discussions with other players. Also of note, Kdogg was on Viking's tongue quite a lot prior to Viking's reveal, but since then, they've had virtually no interactions.
Compare that to Kdogg's reaction to me. He's posted countless times about me and asked me a ton of questions. I quit after 20+ posts.
From my point of view, you discussed both reveals, but have only asked questions and responded to me. I think thinks further bolstered by the change in interactions between Viking and Kdogg. Previously, they would readily go back and forth and talk to each other. Since his reveal, no interactions.
And if I'm right about Kdogg, Mafia would be: Viking, SFA, Kdogg
That's a lot of ego in a Mafia. Probably plenty for them to think they are better than everyone else and able to successfully pull of a "fake inspector"
Fuck it, I vote we move this "dueling Inspector" business higher up on our agenda.
kdogg > ZIG
Do I have a second?
As y'all know, we currently have competing Inspector claims. I know they both overlap with SFA, and if you don't take me up on this proposal I'm still OK with lynching him. But hear me out here.
We also have a Night Two whack coming up. I think the obvious course of action for the Mafia right now is to whack a player voting for SFA. It would give us less to go on in Day Three, and Mafia could keep this guessing game going.
Let's force their hand. Let's draw the line between these competing Inspectors. Let's take sides on this now.
Mafia won't get an ambiguous Night Two whack out of it. Their whack would give us more information than lynching SFA now. The votes would likely be more informative, too.
That especially goes for you, ZIG, Rummy & Mike D. Y'all are voting for SFA right now, and that's basically a death sentence for one of you once Night falls. Just sayin.
I'm not saying SFA is innocent or that we shouldn't lynch him. We should. What I'm saying is: Can we please put Viking vs. ZIG ahead of SFA on the agenda - for our own sake?
I think we would be safer (for some more than others?) and smarter (as a Town) for rearranging the order of these priorities. Thank you for your consideration.
I hear you. I see the value in what you're proposing. But this game has gone in so many divergent and whacky directions already...I am at a point where, even more than usual as Town, I don't want to put too much stock into believing anyone's claims. I am not going to write anyone off as town right now. That would be foolish.
As of now, I'm leaning towards Viking being the real Inspector. But I'm far from 100% on it. I do realize that Viking is the kind of player who has probably been waiting for the day to do an inspector fake reveal D1 and if he is Mafia this game and his fellow scum let him...he'd go for it.
I am happy to see Zig in the run off. But I don't really want to move my vote right now, since as you said SFA is the only one who has been named by both claimed-Inspectors, and I feel he's gotta go sooner rather than later.
Also. Day 2, we are on page 20. Jesus fucking christ.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
I was not the one to request a Night 1 extension. I got my guess in to JR within 2 hours of Day 1 ending.
The delay was on Viking, SFA, Unknown
I felt like KDogg's action during that extension was evidence he was a townie. Do you disagree?
I remember when you said that. I guess I discarded it because at that time I was already thinking he was already town from his Day 1 actions and it is felt like Standard Kdogg
At this point, I think the town has a better chance of survival if we kill off both potential Inspectors before too long...since one is obviously Mafia. And we are struggling to determine which one is lying. If we keep the wrong one alive in favor of killing the other (who is actually Inspector), we are really screwed.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
I think the right move today is to lynch SFA. Kdogg makes a good argument for having a dueling Inspector runoff but that would put us at 2 strikes and we would have to be perfect. This way we can be sure (I would like to think) that we aren't heading into day 3 having to be perfect the rest of the way
Note: Original post unedited in spoiler tag below. This tally carried over an omitted vote change from earlier. (Carini > Mike D > SFA.) See posts below for correct version.
Ref's Note: I'm getting on a plane to Las Vegas in a couple hours. I won't be on my personal computer again until Friday morning. Forgive me if my posts lack clarity and my responses are a tad slow. kdogg, feel free to post tallies if I'm late. You can even add the noob ref tally back in.
Day Two, Round One
Vote Tally SFA 3 (ZIG, Rummy, Mike D) Mike D 2 (Viking, Carini) Viking 2 (SFA, Potent) ZIG 2 (kdogg, danbob)
Vote History R1 Mike D > Viking R1 Viking > Mike D R1 kdogg > SFA R1 Potent > Mike D R1 SFA > Viking R1 Carini > Mike D R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D R1 danbob > Mike D R1 ZIG > SFA R1 Potent > Mike D > Viking R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D > SFA R1 Rummy > SFA R1 Mike D > Viking > SFA R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D > SFA > ZIG R1 danbob > Mike D > ZIG
Left To Vote N/A
This round will end on Monday, July 11th at 12:00 P.M. EDT
I hate to sound like an alarmist fearmonger, Rummy 500, but I think your vote is going to be the death of you. At least, if your vote kills SFA outright as it currently would.
I think the whack is going to be an SFA voter, so that Mafia can keep things as confusing as they can for as long as they can. The other SFA voters are ZIG and Mike D. I think either of them getting whacked would reduce the confusion much. Which makes me worry it's going to be you.
Would you be willing to meet somewhere in the middle? Maybe lock in a four-way with these four? I think that would also be educational, and might not keep you in the crosshairs like I worry you are now.
You can even vote for me with no hard feelings. I might bark, but I'm in no position to bite. (This game, at least...)
Ref's Note: I'm getting on a plane to Las Vegas in a couple hours. I won't be on my personal computer again until Friday morning. Forgive me if my posts lack clarity and my responses are a tad slow. kdogg, feel free to post tallies if I'm late. You can even add the noob ref tally back in.
Day Two, Round One
Vote Tally SFA 3 (ZIG, Rummy, Mike D) Mike D 2 (Viking, Carini) Viking 2 (SFA, Potent) ZIG 2 (kdogg, danbob)
Vote History R1 Mike D > Viking R1 Viking > Mike D R1 kdogg > SFA R1 Potent > Mike D R1 SFA > Viking R1 Carini > Mike D R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D R1 danbob > Mike D R1 ZIG > SFA R1 Potent > Mike D > Viking R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D > SFA R1 Rummy > SFA R1 Mike D > Viking > SFA R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D > SFA > ZIG R1 danbob > Mike D > ZIG
Left To Vote N/A
This round will end on Monday, July 11th at 12:00 P.M. EDT
I hate to sound like an alarmist fearmonger, Rummy 500 , but I think your vote is going to be the death of you. At least, if your vote kills SFA outright as it currently would.
I think the whack is going to be an SFA voter, so that Mafia can keep things as confusing as they can for as long as they can. The other SFA voters are ZIG and Mike D. I think either of them getting whacked would reduce the confusion much. Which makes me worry it's going to be you.
Would you be willing to meet somewhere in the middle? Maybe lock in a four-way with these four? I think that would also be educational, and might not keep you in the crosshairs like I worry you are now.
You can even vote for me with no hard feelings. I might bark, but I'm in no position to bite. (This game, at least...)
I'm town, I have an inkling you're town (though of course not 100% on it; doesn't help that I've never played with you before, I'm quite sure - so it isn't like I feel confident in my read on you). I want to work with you on this, though I do have my reservations.
That said, there is certainly merit in your argument. I am not sure if I am ready to let SFA slip away from being the D2 lynch, but yes, I'll at least even things out so that SFA isn't lynched outright at the end of this round.
Rummy>SFA>Zig (cause Carini just said he changed over to SFA, which means SFA would be at 4 if I didn't switch - now Zig and SFA are both at 3, yes? Correct me if this iswrong and I will switch accordingly)
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Appreciate the correction. Looks like I actually made the original error of omission two tallies ago, and we just now noticed? Honest mistake, I swear. Now I feel like a fool for basing my plea on it, and someone is probably going to use this in calling for my head down the line. Dammit.
Perhaps we should ask and/or draft Jaz or Dr. Joe to fill in on tally duties while the Ref is in Vegas?
Ref's Note: I'm getting on a plane to Las Vegas in a couple hours. I won't be on my personal computer again until Friday morning. Forgive me if my posts lack clarity and my responses are a tad slow. kdogg, feel free to post tallies if I'm late. You can even add the noob ref tally back in. kdogg's Note: Previous tally post with omitted vote change was edited to include a disclaimer.
Day Two, Round One
Vote Tally SFA 3 (ZIG, Mike D, Carini) Viking 2 (SFA, Potent) Mike D 1 (Viking) ZIG 3 (kdogg, danbob, Rummy)
Vote History R1 Mike D > Viking R1 Viking > Mike D R1 kdogg > SFA R1 Potent > Mike D R1 SFA > Viking R1 Carini > Mike D R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D R1 danbob > Mike D R1 ZIG > SFA R1 Potent > Mike D > Viking R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D > SFA R1 Rummy > SFA R1 Mike D > Viking > SFA R1 Carini > Mike D > SFA R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D > SFA > ZIG R1 danbob > Mike D > ZIG R1 Rummy > SFA > ZIG
Left To Vote N/A
This round will end on Monday, July 11th at 12:00 P.M. EDT
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
So at this point, to get a three person run off, it would require Viking to move onto...viking. Great
Yeah, I noticed that.
Can't help but notice that ZIG has a counter-claim and Mike D stands accused... but neither have gone for Viking themselves. Would be great if either one of them could give us the Inspector Bowl I've been talking about.
So at this point, to get a three person run off, it would require Viking to move onto...viking. Great
Yeah, I noticed that.
Can't help but notice that ZIG has a counter-claim and Mike D stands accused... but neither have gone for Viking themselves. Would be great if either one of them could give us the Inspector Bowl I've been talking about.
I've been wondering about this too. My best guess is that they are trying to sew some more uncertainty since it has been thrown out that I could be mafia with ZIG.
Dammit. I saved edits my previous post when I meant to cut & paste it into a new post. Don't update posts and drive.
Ref's Note: I'm getting on a plane to Las Vegas in a couple hours. I won't be on my personal computer again until Friday morning. Forgive me if my posts lack clarity and my responses are a tad slow. kdogg, feel free to post tallies if I'm late. You can even add the noob ref tally back in. kdogg's Note: Previous tally post with omitted vote change was edited to include a disclaimer.
Vote History R1 Mike D > Viking R1 Viking > Mike D R1 kdogg > SFA R1 Potent > Mike D R1 SFA > Viking R1 Carini > Mike D R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D R1 danbob > Mike D R1 ZIG > SFA R1 Potent > Mike D > Viking R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D > SFA R1 Rummy > SFA R1 Mike D > Viking > SFA R1 Carini > Mike D > SFA R1 kdogg > SFA > Mike D > SFA > ZIG R1 danbob > Mike D > ZIG R1 Rummy > SFA > ZIG R1 Viking > Mike D > Viking
Left To Vote N/A
This round will end on Monday, July 11th at 12:00 P.M. EDT
