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D2R1 Vote History Jaz > SFA Zolah > Potent Carini > Potent LLL > Jaz SFA > Jaz Jaz > SFA > LLL Pablo > Dan JR > Pablo Dan > Pablo JR > Pablo > Carini Potent > SFA Potent > SFA > Carini
D3R1 Vote History Carini > Dan Carini > Dan > Null Carini > Dan > Null > LLL JR > Dan SFA > Dan Dan > Pablo Pablo > LLL Jaz > LLL Jaz > LLL > Carini LLL > Dan JR > Dan > LLL Jaz > LLL > Carini > Pablo JR > Dan > LLL > Jaz
I spent pretty much all of Day 3 hoping for a reveal, most likely from Carini. It didn't happen. The only thing to do was reread slowly, paying attention to what people said and what I thought of it, doing my best to ignore my predjudices of the last two weeks, other than the near certainties, such as LD, Zolah and Carini being town. I actually ran out of time on page 9, but I got a lot out of the first 9 pages. Consider this my midterm.
Maddog reads mafia and LD's whack feels tied to mafia thinking Inspector LD with Maddog's name. My assumptions going forward are based on Maddog being mafia. I'm not making any assumptions about Potent or LLL.
SFA reads town more than ever. Between defending LD and going head to head with Maddog on Day 1, he's done an impressive job of distancing if he's mafia.
Maddog + Pablo doesn't seem very likely as mafia. Pablo left everyone hanging for 2.5 days, only to come and vote for Maddog at the last moment. If he was going to make that distancing move it would have made a lot more sense 2.5 days earlier when the town could react and be at fault if Maddog fell out of the runoff.
Maddog + Jaz seems more likely than Pablo, but not very much. Jaz was saying early in Day 2 that he thought he remembered SFA defending Maddog. If Jaz was mafia with Maddog I think he'd have been paying closer attention to the SFA-Maddog spat towards the end of Day 1. Weak evidence, but it feels genuine. Couple that with the point SFA made on page 4, when Jaz and Maddog "worked together" to put Zolah in a little too obviously.
Dan voting Maddog first and never moving makes him feel town at first glance, but realize, by the end of Day 1, Maddog had a ton of heat, moving off of him would have been highly suspicious, while the distance it created could be used for them in the future. That being said, there are some reasons Dan should be town: - Dan+Maddog+LLL means LLL pushed Dan ahead instead of pushing her real suspect, Pablo, in. - Dan+Maddog+Potent means Dan spent a great deal of effort defending a fellow mafia. More than most would.
Not to mention, Potent and LLL could both be town...
Pablo then votes for Maddog. I counteracted this, because it would leave Carini as the lone revoter from the current Zolah voters. Knowing the roles we know now, we must ask if Pablo's move onto Maddog is a Mafia or townie move? If he were Mafia going for distancing by voting Maddog, he would essentially be putting his hope in townie-Carini's hands, which is a bit of a gamble. The wiser move as Mafia would be to vote for Zolah, saving Maddog completely.
This makes me lean town on Pablo. Could someone who is suspicious of Pablo explain why they they he would vote for Maddog here?
Got my reread in. If there are two mafia left that means there is likely one mafia between SFA/pablo and JR/jaz based on the thinking that there is one mafia from the mad dog voters and one mafia from the zolah voters from day 1. However, I'm thinking that there may only be one mafia left due to the fact that I am leaning town on both jaz and JR (and also due to that fact potent was extremely suspicious to me). So down between SFA and pablo I'm definitely leaning pablo here. Even though SFA vaguely defended mad dog calling him "too wild" he quickly changed once mad dog starting spewing his shit - so I don't know if it's entirely fair to say that SFA defended him as jaz said. So that really just comes down to pablo who I have been extremely suspicious of for a good majority of the game. I don't want to seem like that guy who only votes for one person but I feel like there's a moderate chance the game might end if he lynch him. I'm open to discussion here but I feel like everything I'm saying makes sense. I won't be around too much tonight but I'll be around during the weekend.
Pablo then votes for Maddog. I counteracted this, because it would leave Carini as the lone revoter from the current Zolah voters. Knowing the roles we know now, we must ask if Pablo's move onto Maddog is a Mafia or townie move? If he were Mafia going for distancing by voting Maddog, he would essentially be putting his hope in townie-Carini's hands, which is a bit of a gamble. The wiser move as Mafia would be to vote for Zolah, saving Maddog completely.
This makes me lean town on Pablo. Could someone who is suspicious of Pablo explain why they they he would vote for Maddog here?
I had this thought too during my reread. I think if he's mafia it was distancing - especially if mafia was already suspicious off to LD having mad dogs name.
Got my reread in. If there are two mafia left that means there is likely one mafia between SFA/pablo and JR/jaz based on the thinking that there is one mafia from the mad dog voters and one mafia from the zolah voters from day 1. However, I'm thinking that there may only be one mafia left due to the fact that I am leaning town on both jaz and JR (and also due to that fact potent was extremely suspicious to me). So down between SFA and pablo I'm definitely leaning pablo here. Even though SFA vaguely defended mad dog calling him "too wild" he quickly changed once mad dog starting spewing his shit - so I don't know if it's entirely fair to say that SFA defended him as jaz said. So that really just comes down to pablo who I have been extremely suspicious of for a good majority of the game. I don't want to seem like that guy who only votes for one person but I feel like there's a moderate chance the game might end if he lynch him. I'm open to discussion here but I feel like everything I'm saying makes sense. I won't be around too much tonight but I'll be around during the weekend.
Got my reread in. If there are two mafia left that means there is likely one mafia between SFA/pablo and JR/jaz based on the thinking that there is one mafia from the mad dog voters and one mafia from the zolah voters from day 1. However, I'm thinking that there may only be one mafia left due to the fact that I am leaning town on both jaz and JR (and also due to that fact potent was extremely suspicious to me). So down between SFA and pablo I'm definitely leaning pablo here. Even though SFA vaguely defended mad dog calling him "too wild" he quickly changed once mad dog starting spewing his shit - so I don't know if it's entirely fair to say that SFA defended him as jaz said. So that really just comes down to pablo who I have been extremely suspicious of for a good majority of the game. I don't want to seem like that guy who only votes for one person but I feel like there's a moderate chance the game might end if he lynch him. I'm open to discussion here but I feel like everything I'm saying makes sense. I won't be around too much tonight but I'll be around during the weekend.
if there are two mafia I think there's one from each group of players. When looking at the JR/jaz I would probably lean more toward jaz based I think it makes more sense that there was two mafia on Zolah and one on maddog.
if there are two mafia I think there's one from each group of players. When looking at the JR/jaz I would probably lean more toward jaz based I think it makes more sense that there was two mafia on Zolah and one on maddog.
LLL'S angle at the end of last round, to be clear. So I'd say she was the second and not Potent.
As i've been saying. One mafia was a Maddog voter first round. In my mind it's either Dan or Pablo. I guess it could be JR but he seems super townish this game. Like he's not even paying much attention and has no agenda. Certainly not one he's talking over with a mafia crew.
Still think Pablo is the safest of the two.
SFA >>> Dan
If not him than I'm not sure? Jaz before Pablo.
So you think both mad dog and LLL are mafia but are still voting for me? First off I kept my vote on mad dog all day 1. I was also very critical of him even comparing him to kdogg.
This is bullshit. "Very critical" constatutes ONE post were you refer to him by name before round 1 ended. It also came after he was a sinking ship. That means nothing and you know it.
Why are you lying?
Also, I could look through the last came and make a list but it's pretty safe to say plenty of mafia members who've been voted out round one had a fellow mafia sitting on their vote for them. It's pretty common, especilly when that mafia ends up in hot water. So claiming you didn't move your vote doesn't mean all that much.
second, LLL bumped me up to three votes yesterday when she could have had a runoff. If anything believing LLL is mafia would point to Pablo because she could have bumped me up to three to save her AND Pablo.
As a already said to Jaz, this could be distancing. You and LLL were in hot water last round. A distancing move isn't that far fetched. You would expect two mafia to try and separate themselves regardless.
But sure, maybe it was Pablo. Some of what I said above also applies to him. All I know is that you or Pablo are the most likly out of the R1 Maddog voters. I just think Pablo has made more townish moves than you. Same goes with JR.
Also, I could look through the last came and make a list but it's pretty safe to say plenty of mafia members who've been voted out round one had a fellow mafia sitting on their vote for them.
That should read "look through the last 10 games."
nah, I don't feel like messing with it on my phone. And as I said, it's best not to debate when you'receive on the wrong track.
If you can't tell i'm town from round one I don't know what to tell you anyway
Here's the thing with round one: you can all use that as a defense. Dan was the first vote on Maddog in round one and held it there. You were the first vote on Maddog in round two and held it there. Pablo was the first vote on Maddog in round three and held it there. JR was the deciding vote on Maddog in round four. If we're right in assuming Maddog was mafia, then one of you is distancing because I'm not mafia and the other Zolah voters are dead. You've all got a reasonable defense. I'll re-read the thread though because I'm not sold on you. Really don't have a clue at this point tbh.
I know one of them is. I've been saying Danbob or Pablo since early round 2. Maybe JR is blinding me but he just seems town this game.
As far as every using it as a defence. I think my actions are far different than any of theirs giving the timing and lack of logiCal mafia motivation.
So let's say I did if as mafia for some elaborate cover for myself. I'd have to be like 90% positive LD was inspector. Then I'd push for my mafia teammate to get voted off. And collaborate with him to fake inspector at the very end of the round... to give me cover. Which BTW could have motivated LD to reveal himself right then and there. He would have had all night.
I could have had the same "cover story" or whatever by simply letting Maddog get voted off and then whacking LD. The same info would have been available to me.
I guess the rebutted to this would be I don't have complete control of Maddog's actions. Yada Yada yada. Well, yeah but that kind if blows up the whole part where me going strong against Maddog was all a ploy.
I don't know. This whole thing is far too elaborate to believe.
second, LLL bumped me up to three votes yesterday when she could have had a runoff. If anything believing LLL is mafia would point to Pablo because she could have bumped me up to three to save her AND Pablo.
As a already said to Jaz, this could be distancing. You and LLL were in hot water last round. A distancing move isn't that far fetched. You would expect two mafia to try and separate themselves regardless.
But sure, maybe it was Pablo. Some of what I said above also applies to him. All I know is that you or Pablo are the most likly out of the R1 Maddog voters. I just think Pablo has made more townish moves than you. Same goes with JR.
This definitely pokes a hole in the defense I laid out for my biggest suspect:
- Dan+Maddog+LLL means LLL pushed Dan ahead instead of pushing her real suspect, Pablo, in.
I don't find it far fetched coming from LLL at all as I think about it. She definitely seemed to be up to something at the time. At first I thought it was about Pablo, and said as much. But creating distance against Dan, even though it meant one of them would die doesn't seem like such a bad idea if mafia thought they'd already killed the inspector. She knew two mafia were going to be in the runoff, might as well create some distance on the way in.
As a already said to Jaz, this could be distancing. You and LLL were in hot water last round. A distancing move isn't that far fetched. You would expect two mafia to try and separate themselves regardless.
But sure, maybe it was Pablo. Some of what I said above also applies to him. All I know is that you or Pablo are the most likly out of the R1 Maddog voters. I just think Pablo has made more townish moves than you. Same goes with JR.
This definitely pokes a hole in the defense I laid out for my biggest suspect:
- Dan+Maddog+LLL means LLL pushed Dan ahead instead of pushing her real suspect, Pablo, in.
I don't find it far fetched coming from LLL at all as I think about it. She definitely seemed to be up to something at the time. At first I thought it was about Pablo, and said as much. But creating distance against Dan, even though it meant one of them would die doesn't seem like such a bad idea if mafia thought they'd already killed the inspector. She knew two mafia were going to be in the runoff, might as well create some distance on the way in.
I think it's logical to think mafia wouldn't vote togeather or interacted much in Round two. So that pretty much leaves me or LLL as the Potent voter.
That's partly why I think it makes sense she's mafia. That and her ending post where she turns up the heat on me.
I also think mafia would know we are looking at the vote splits. JAZ likly wouldn't whack Carini and leave himself as the sole Zolah voter. I mean..maybe. but that seems risky.
I'll have to check but I feel Carini was saying LLL and Dan as well?
I'm wary of JR and SFA right now because they have gotten relatively little heat all game, especially JR.
It's not that we haven't gotten our fair consideration, it just doesn't add up. I cast the last vote of Day 1 that killed Maddog. If I'm mafia you can pretty much pencil Maddog in as town or work out how Maddog, Zolah and I are mafia. I considered if Maddog could be town and there was just too many new possibilities and I'll blame him and Tainted for losing the game if that turns out to be true.
If you have some heat bring it, if not where's your vote?
I still have a little yellow flag about the Potent lock I asked you about. You responded with a vague quote that didn't answer the question clearly.
At this point I'm feeling pretty confident that if we kill Dan and Pablo the town will win.
It sounds like you think Potent was Mafia? If that is the case, with his vote change from me in round 1 and then him saying he thought SFA and myself seemed the most "town", I can see why it makes sense to think I may be Mafia. Fair enough. So there would be one Mafia left. When you find that the game doesn't end after this day because I am town--IF you are not Mafia-- I would implore you to use some fresh eyes and look at this game again. Town is getting the wool pulled over their eyes and are being misdirected.
It may be too late, but I'm going to try to reread as if I know nothing and take some notes. Unfortunately, my work schedule won't allow it before the round ends.
Here's Pablo requesting an extension minutes later:
Thank you. I'm going back to bed for an hour or two (it's my day off and I was up late). Right now I feel kind of stuck because if I switch to Dan, Jaz has already suggested that he would vote for LLL, and Dan would have the final vote, choosing between himself and LLL. I could also get myself killed, which would be a worst-case scenario for Town from my perspective. I can only be sure of my own role, so saving myself is most beneficial to Town from where I'm sitting. It's unlikely I'll move my vote at this point, and I'm taking a risk that I'll get killed, but I think we could talk this out a little more. Last night discussion kinda fizzled out.
He wasn't saving himself, he wasn't in danger. Even if someone switched to him in the last hour it would have triggered an automatic extension. What was he up to then? Looks like he was buying LLL time. Why? For someone else (ME, see first quote) to save her...
If we assume Maddog is Mafia, we can assume either Potent or LLL was Mafia. This is because the LD voters at the end of D1 were Maddog, Potent, LLL, myself, and Carini. Carini and myself are town, and I feel very safe assuming that both of Maddog's teammates did not end the day with both of their votes on him. That means one of his teammates was either LLL or Potent.
The round ends, and Dan, Pablo, and myself have revotes. Pablo votes for me, making it Potent 2, Jaz 3, Carini 2. Then I vote for Potent. Potent 3, Jaz 3, Carini 2. Then Dan votes for Potent, bring him up to four. This all but ensures that Potent will end up in the runoff. Potent then votes for me, bring it to a Jaz/Potent runoff with JR as the sole revote. The rest is history. I don't see how, in the second round with one Mafia already down, Mafia Danbob would ensure that Mafia Potent ends up in the runoff, with only a townie left to revote. Especially with Townie Jaz and Townie Carini as other options. Conclusion: Danbob is not Mafia with Potent.
Well what about Danbob and LLL? Well, let's look at how the runoff started to shape up in Day 3.
Vote Tally Dan - 2 (JR, SFA) LLL - 2 (Carini, Pablo) Pablo - 1 (Dan) Carini - 1 (Jaz)
Vote History Carini > Dan Carini > Dan > Null Carini > Dan > Null > LLL JR > Dan SFA > Dan Dan > Pablo Pablo > LLL Jaz > LLL Jaz > LLL > Carini
Left To Vote LLL
LLL has the revote. I put her in a position in which I expected her to choose between Pablo and Carini, bringing us to a three-way runoff. But no - she stacks up on Danbob, bringing him up to three. This brings us to a situation similar to the previous one involving Potent - why would Mafia LLL stack Mafia Danbob up to three here, ensuring that he enters into an ensuing runoff, most likely with herself? That vote would nearly be ensuring that a Mafia dies. Conclusion: Danbob is not Mafia with LLL.
So if one of Potent or LLL are Mafia, and Danbob is not Mafia with Potent or LLL, that means Danbob is town.
This evidence seems pretty solid to me, if I do say so myself. I strongly encourage people to find flaws in it, because it makes a whole lot of sense to me.
JR and SFA addressed the distancing possibility between Danbob and LLL, but I don't really buy it. Yea there was an opportunity for distancing, but if her and Dan were the two Mafia left, then why not vote for Pablo or Carini? Why ensure that one of you dies?
JR and SFA addressed the distancing possibility between Danbob and LLL, but I don't really buy it. Yea there was an opportunity for distancing, but if her and Dan were the two Mafia left, then why not vote for Pablo or Carini? Why ensure that one of you dies?
Well, I can only guess but I'd say it could be a couple reasons. Prior to LLL voting for Dan -Zolah had just called both of them top suspects before her whack. - JR repeated Zolah's suspicion and agreed. Had showed prior suspicion of at least LLL. Wanted a Dan and LLL runoff early in round 3. -SFA had shown prior suspicion of them both. Voted Dan. Carina wrote a huge, by his standards, post about his suspicion of LLL. Before that he voted Dan. Then swith ed to LLL. - Jaz had voted LLL and had showed prior suspicion of her. Voiced interest in a LLL/Danbob runoff. -Pablo agreed with a Dan/LLL runoff.
So basically every player except the two of them was leaning suspicion their way. Several of them quite heavily. I think it's safe to say when a majority of remaining players are suspicious of two people they might not want to confirm that by having one help the other in a runoff. So it's not like another round would help them, at least where their own voting was concerned.
Why not take it further and try to create some chaos? Remember from a theoretical mafia point of view the walls are caving in at this point.
One of them was likly not making it out alive from round 3. Distencing from the other seems a legit option. It's one i'd certainly consider in the situation.
JR and SFA addressed the distancing possibility between Danbob and LLL, but I don't really buy it. Yea there was an opportunity for distancing, but if her and Dan were the two Mafia left, then why not vote for Pablo or Carini? Why ensure that one of you dies?
Well, I can only guess but I'd say it could be a couple reasons. Prior to LLL voting for Dan -Zolah had just called both of them top suspects before her whack. - JR repeated Zolah's suspicion and agreed. Had showed prior suspicion of at least LLL. Wanted a Dan and LLL runoff early in round 3. -SFA had shown prior suspicion of them both. Voted Dan. Carina wrote a huge, by his standards, post about his suspicion of LLL. Before that he voted Dan. Then swith ed to LLL. - Jaz had voted LLL and had showed prior suspicion of her. Voiced interest in a LLL/Danbob runoff. -Pablo agreed with a Dan/LLL runoff.
So basically every player except the two of them was leaning suspicion their way. Several of them quite heavily. I think it's safe to say when a majority of remaining players are suspicious of two people they might not want to confirm that by having one help the other in a runoff. So it's not like another round would help them, at least where their own voting was concerned.
Why not take it further and try to create some chaos? Remember from a theoretical mafia point of view the walls are caving in at this point.
One of them was likly not making it out alive from round 3. Distencing from the other seems a legit option. It's one i'd certainly consider in the situation.
All of that makes sense; all of it. But then that second to last sentence - it seems like a legit option. That may be true, but is it a better option then not dying? The goal of this game is to stay alive.
Like let's say they manage to get Pablo or Carini voted off. At this point they would only need one more round to win the game. Sure, maybe if they help one another it might get one of them voted off in Day 4, but then they're in the same position, except one round further along and with two less townies. That's a far more advantageous position than having only one Mafia left for the remainder of the game.
I'm wary of JR and SFA right now because they have gotten relatively little heat all game, especially JR.
It's not that we haven't gotten our fair consideration, it just doesn't add up. I cast the last vote of Day 1 that killed Maddog. If I'm mafia you can pretty much pencil Maddog in as town or work out how Maddog, Zolah and I are mafia. I considered if Maddog could be town and there was just too many new possibilities and I'll blame him and Tainted for losing the game if that turns out to be true.
If you have some heat bring it, if not where's your vote?
I'll probably do at least one more read before a vote. I'll be doing a read after this post. We have the weekend. I promise I won't take the entire time this go-round.
I still have a little yellow flag about the Potent lock I asked you about. You responded with a vague quote that didn't answer the question clearly.
I responded with a quote of Carini asking me literally the exact same thing and him being satisfied with my answer. Carini did make it confusing by asking about the wrong guy, but I clarified that in the quoted posts, regardless.
At this point I'm feeling pretty confident that if we kill Dan and Pablo the town will win.
If Dan is the final remaining Mafia, you'd be right. That seems like kind of a weird thing to say for someone who thinks it's unlikely I would be Mafia with Maddog and who believes that Maddog was Mafia, though.
Maddog + Pablo doesn't seem very likely as mafia. Pablo left everyone hanging for 2.5 days, only to come and vote for Maddog at the last moment. If he was going to make that distancing move it would have made a lot more sense 2.5 days earlier when the town could react and be at fault if Maddog fell out of the runoff.
How come last round it was myself and LLL for you and this round it's time to lynch Dan and myself and seal a win? Why couldn't you have voted for Dan last round when, yes, I gave you extra time, putting myself at risk, so that you could do so if you chose to do so after that re-read you announced. The way the votes were structured, it seemed to me that a change-of-heart would be required by yourself, Jaz, or possibly Carini (least likely). I have a feeling if we were going to lynch Dan we should've done it by now, and that I'm around at this point in part because I'd be a reliable vote on Dan and vice versa. And hey, maybe at the end of the Day I am and maybe I was right all along, but maybe someone is fucking with me. I'm still open to all possibilities.
Well, I can only guess but I'd say it could be a couple reasons. Prior to LLL voting for Dan -Zolah had just called both of them top suspects before her whack. - JR repeated Zolah's suspicion and agreed. Had showed prior suspicion of at least LLL. Wanted a Dan and LLL runoff early in round 3. -SFA had shown prior suspicion of them both. Voted Dan. Carina wrote a huge, by his standards, post about his suspicion of LLL. Before that he voted Dan. Then swith ed to LLL. - Jaz had voted LLL and had showed prior suspicion of her. Voiced interest in a LLL/Danbob runoff. -Pablo agreed with a Dan/LLL runoff.
So basically every player except the two of them was leaning suspicion their way. Several of them quite heavily. I think it's safe to say when a majority of remaining players are suspicious of two people they might not want to confirm that by having one help the other in a runoff. So it's not like another round would help them, at least where their own voting was concerned.
Why not take it further and try to create some chaos? Remember from a theoretical mafia point of view the walls are caving in at this point.
One of them was likly not making it out alive from round 3. Distencing from the other seems a legit option. It's one i'd certainly consider in the situation.
All of that makes sense; all of it. But then that second to last sentence - it seems like a legit option. That may be true, but is it a better option then not dying? The goal of this game is to stay alive.
Like let's say they manage to get Pablo or Carini voted off. At this point they would only need one more round to win the game. Sure, maybe if they help one another it might get one of them voted off in Day 4, but then they're in the same position, except one round further along and with two less townies. That's a far more advantageous position than having only one Mafia left for the remainder of the game.
But i don't see much evidence that Carini or Pablo would have got voted off there. SFA, JR, Carini, Pablo would likly have voted Dan or LLL. All four were fairly strong on that from my reading just now. Maybe I shouldn't put words in their mouths? I'll also add you seemed fairly strong on at least LLL.
I do 100% get what you are saying and I'd agree if there wasn't posted evidence from a majority pointing to it not being a tossup. But I will give you that mafia can turn on a dime.
Maddog is Mafia. LD, Zolah, Carini, and myself are not Mafia. Danbob is not Mafia (see previous post). One of Potent or LLL is Mafia, because there's no way Maddog died in R1 with both of his teammates stacked on him. JR and LLL are not Mafia together, due to JR killing off LLL at the end of Day 3.
Keeping the last one on there just because I'm wrong sometimes, and I trust SFA's judgment when he is indeed a townie. Good to keep an open mind.
At this point, I'll say that I don't care about what any of you did or said in relation to Maddog. Because whatever your defense is, one of you is lying. Trying to parse out which of you was distancing and which of you was acting genuinely is going to be a fool's mission. So what I'm trying to figure out now is which of you guys dangling on the ends of those combos up there don't match with LLL/Potent. Which is tough, because some of you have very little relation to them in terms of votes. JR voted for Potent at the beginning of the last round of Day 2. And SFA and LLL voted together to open stacks on me in Day 2 and Dan in Day 3. I'm not sure they would vote together like that twice if they were Mafia together. So Maddog/Potent/JR and Maddog/LLL/SFA are lower on my list of suspiciousness.
Good analysis jaz. I definitely see the mad dog/LLL/Pablo as being the most likely given how the game has played out.
To SFA, I understand your points and see how you may think LLL's vote on me could be distancing but mafia makes moves that benefit them. Knowing I'm town LLL's vote seems like she was trying to protect Pablo. Not just in terms of votes but maybe the goal was to steer the conversation away from Pablo (although that is merely speculation I just pulled out of my ass).
