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Interesting that both others in the runoff are voting for me. And 2 rounds in a row Pablo makes the deciding vote and someone changes it to keep me in. It could be said Jaz was saved last round. Or Maddog this round. Oddly enough, those are the two keeping me in it as well.
I feel like Maddog and Jaz slipping out and each throwing me in last minute is more suspicious than LD retaliating x2. I also think it would be more beneficial for town to see where Potent/LLL/JR re-vote... Because they've been 3 of the quieter players.
Zolah > Maddog
I understand your suspicion, but wouldn't you agree that it's more beneficial for the town to gain information from three revoters instead of just Carini? I don't mind your vote switch because even though I lean town on Maddog, I don't actually know his role, and we still get decent information from the revoters.
Interesting that both others in the runoff are voting for me. And 2 rounds in a row Pablo makes the deciding vote and someone changes it to keep me in. It could be said Jaz was saved last round. Or Maddog this round. Oddly enough, those are the two keeping me in it as well.
I feel like Maddog and Jaz slipping out and each throwing me in last minute is more suspicious than LD retaliating x2. I also think it would be more beneficial for town to see where Potent/LLL/JR re-vote... Because they've been 3 of the quieter players.
Zolah > Maddog
I understand your suspicion, but wouldn't you agree that it's more beneficial for the town to gain information from three revoters instead of just Carini? I don't mind your vote switch because even though I lean town on Maddog, I don't actually know his role, and we still get decent information from the revoters.
I see your point, and I even agree with it. For me though, I see you and Maddog each falling out (Maddog taking you out and you taking him out, both to toss me in last minute). I also think that most day 1s are townies jumping around creating clouds... which is why I wanted to see Potent/LLL/JR to have input and re-vote. That and Maddog feels weirder to me than LD now. His first vote for you with poor reasoning. Taking you out to put me in last minute. Now him almost falling out. Might be nothing, but I feel like he should be looked at more than LD. Maybe more importantly though having these 3 quieter people have some input.
So... tipsy Zolah here. But last round, Maddog and Pablo discussed Maddog's last minute extension/vote switch back and forth which seemed odd to me (not at the time, only upon re-reading, I believe it was page 4). Now Pablo is just MIA all weekend while he needs to simply vote. I get that it would have just been easier last round for Pablo to just vote me than to vote Jaz and then Maddog go, "whoa, extension, voting Zolah," but it's weird. And that's something Potent/Dan & I would have done last game... And oddly enough, that shit worked. JR ... Make me another drink...
Read over some things. Another thing of interest. Out of all of Maddog's talk of not freeing votes of the people in the runoff. He's ended up voting in a way that benefits him the most. The conventional thinking* being "It makes more sense to vote for Zolah in this situation because if I vote Maddog it only gives us info from 1 voter instead of 3."
Looking back this has been brought up several times this game. By Potent and Pablo. I know I've used this argument for my early votes a good bit too in the past.
What if the weird extension/last minute minute switch is because maddog saw an opportunity to up his chance of escaping the runoff?
Everyone makes self beneficial moves, especially earlier before people's opinions are really set in. But I'm fine with LD dropping out over zolah since we get more than just Carini as executioner.
Yes, if it's between you and Z - I find you more suspicious. I'm on my phone right now, so I can't go into detail. You just ring more alarms to me.
To the town:
At this point, it makes no sense to really wait and see. It's either you find Maddog suspicious or Zolah. We don't need to have a 6-5 vote just for the sake of balance or whatever. We tend to do that a lot cause nobody wants to step out and rock the boat.
Bold move? Perhaps. Maybe I should have waited. But I want town to win, and I'm crazy enough to do something different. If you think Maddog should go out here, vote for him. If you think Zolah is more suspicious, vote her out. Even if it ends up 7-4 or 8-3, just do it.
Read over some things. Another thing of interest. Out of all of Maddog's talk of not freeing votes of the people in the runoff. He's ended up voting in a way that benefits him the most. The conventional thinking* being "It makes more sense to vote for Zolah in this situation because if I vote Maddog it only gives us info from 1 voter instead of 3."
Looking back this has been brought up several times this game. By Potent and Pablo. I know I've used this argument for my early votes a good bit too in the past.
What if the weird extension/last minute minute switch is because maddog saw an opportunity to up his chance of escaping the runoff?
Everyone makes self beneficial moves, especially earlier before people's opinions are really set in. But I'm fine with LD dropping out over zolah since we get more than just Carini as executioner.
So you're admitting you did it on purpose. Cause switching up a runoff in the last minute so it benefits you and voting for self-preservation when you have no other options aren't the same thing. Not everyone goes to that length.
It also seems fairly contradictory to all your talk of wanting to get the most information. You didn't just try to save yourself. You took another player out of runoff contention and threw another one in... based on some very flimsy reasoning too.
I like how he waited until he was out of the runoff to make his bold move...
I'm not afraid of being aggressive. If I die, fuck it. I'm trying to get a town win, that's first and foremost importance.
When we have three or more in a runoff, it may make more sense to be more evened out in vote counts. At this point, maybe town should take a chance. I think you're more likely Mafia. Who is gonna come save you?
I'm thinking we got Mafia that is experienced. People who know what they're doing, people who have seen me go aggressive before. At least one or two have been playing this for years.
Everyone makes self beneficial moves, especially earlier before people's opinions are really set in. But I'm fine with LD dropping out over zolah since we get more than just Carini as executioner.
So you're admitting you did it on purpose. Cause switching up a runoff in the last minute so it benefits you and voting for self-preservation when you have no other options aren't the same thing. Not everyone goes to that length.
It also seems fairly contradictory to all your talk of wanting to get the most information. You didn't just try to save yourself. You took another player out of runoff contention and threw another one in... based on some very flimsy reasoning too.
I feel like all of LD's votes and discussion have been in self preservation mode tbh. I'm not "admitting" anything, I'm saying everyone does it and that shouldn't be something you harp on since all it does is make it easier for mafia to play the martyr. In recent games townies have been lynched day one over dumb things (and as inspector and mafia in the two most recent games I feel confident in saying that) so I feel like because I made a mistake in the order of who was stacked, I'm being lynched and everyone is off track.
I feel like I don't need to keep explaining I moved for more open votes, that was something that JR tried to peg me as mafia last game when I was inspector. I would rather have more people putting votes on different people than see the same people vote on the same people and vice versa. Such a mafia move.
I feel like LD screwed my motive for trying to see where Potent/LLL/JR would vote. Those 3 were quieter. It would have been nice to see where they ended up and what they had to say. Instead LD changed it from 4-4 to 5-3 before they could even vote or have a say. I don't like that.
as far as my switch/extension, SFA and Pablo both made their votes based on getting ahead of mafia so that mafia couldn't force their vote. At that time we had Jaz, LD, and I as the runoff. With it seeming like SFA and Pablo both didn't want their vote to be in the runoff necessarily. LLL seemed to think LD was more suspicious than SFA to MD and Pablo to Jaz. I made my move so that LD wouldn't get his vote back. If I reallly wanted to self preserve I would have waited for Jaz to fall out and get my vote back. But I also know that Zolah votes for mafia members round one, and there was the weird thing about LD not caring about Zolah unless she's inspector, so why not just change my vote now and see if anyone comes to her defense.
So you're admitting you did it on purpose. Cause switching up a runoff in the last minute so it benefits you and voting for self-preservation when you have no other options aren't the same thing. Not everyone goes to that length.
It also seems fairly contradictory to all your talk of wanting to get the most information. You didn't just try to save yourself. You took another player out of runoff contention and threw another one in... based on some very flimsy reasoning too.
I feel like all of LD's votes and discussion have been in self preservation mode tbh. I'm not "admitting" anything, I'm saying everyone does it and that shouldn't be something you harp on since all it does is make it easier for mafia to play the martyr. In recent games townies have been lynched day one over dumb things (and as inspector and mafia in the two most recent games I feel confident in saying that) so I feel like because I made a mistake in the order of who was stacked, I'm being lynched and everyone is off track.
I feel like I don't need to keep explaining I moved for more open votes, that was something that JR tried to peg me as mafia last game when I was inspector. I would rather have more people putting votes on different people than see the same people vote on the same people and vice versa. Such a mafia move.
If I was so intent on self preservation, I wouldn't have straight out the gate accused you of being suspicious and switched from Zolah to you as soon as the runoff ended. At this point, I'm probably going out tonight or tomorrow. Depends on how hot on someone's trail I got.
I'm not trying to say I think that Zolah is mafia, I just think that at the time, out of her and Jaz I had more reason to switch. I probably would have rather seen LD/Me as the RO, but forcing Carini to make the final decision like that is a poor move, so I'm glad that Jaz made the move he did and bummed that LD is again forcing us to get less data.
I feel like all of LD's votes and discussion have been in self preservation mode tbh. I'm not "admitting" anything, I'm saying everyone does it and that shouldn't be something you harp on since all it does is make it easier for mafia to play the martyr. In recent games townies have been lynched day one over dumb things (and as inspector and mafia in the two most recent games I feel confident in saying that) so I feel like because I made a mistake in the order of who was stacked, I'm being lynched and everyone is off track.
I feel like I don't need to keep explaining I moved for more open votes, that was something that JR tried to peg me as mafia last game when I was inspector. I would rather have more people putting votes on different people than see the same people vote on the same people and vice versa. Such a mafia move.
If I was so intent on self preservation, I wouldn't have straight out the gate accused you of being suspicious and switched from Zolah to you as soon as the runoff ended. At this point, I'm probably going out tonight or tomorrow. Depends on how hot on someone's trail I got.
Well, other than yours.
you seem pretty sure you're getting whacked, but you waited until you were out of the runoff which is self preservation bud.
So you're admitting you did it on purpose. Cause switching up a runoff in the last minute so it benefits you and voting for self-preservation when you have no other options aren't the same thing. Not everyone goes to that length.
It also seems fairly contradictory to all your talk of wanting to get the most information. You didn't just try to save yourself. You took another player out of runoff contention and threw another one in... based on some very flimsy reasoning too.
I feel like all of LD's votes and discussion have been in self preservation mode tbh. I'm not "admitting" anything, I'm saying everyone does it and that shouldn't be something you harp on since all it does is make it easier for mafia to play the martyr. In recent games townies have been lynched day one over dumb things (and as inspector and mafia in the two most recent games I feel confident in saying that) so I feel like because I made a mistake in the order of who was stacked, I'm being lynched and everyone is off track.
I feel like I don't need to keep explaining I moved for more open votes, that was something that JR tried to peg me as mafia last game when I was inspector. I would rather have more people putting votes on different people than see the same people vote on the same people and vice versa. Such a mafia move.
That's a mighty fine false equivalence, coupled with some deflection to change the topic. Again, no. You're changing the subject and trying to claim LD and you have somehow done the same thing. Everyone absolutely does not rearrange a runoff at the last moment because they see a future advantage for themselves. Voting for self preservation, sure. What you did was a step beyond that and you know it.
But I like your attempt to make this my problem. I shouldn't point out the weird things you do because SOMEHOW it automatically makes it easier for the "mafia to play the martyr." By that logic nobody should point out anything at all and we should just vote blindly. Because there's nothing weird at all about you taking Jaz out of the last runoff at the last minute and him then returning the favor to try to take you out of this one this morning. Jaz's move makes more sense. Yours could easily have been machinations under the guize of "more open votes."
I don't think wanting more votes is a mafia move but your attempts the control the game are. Your contradictions in explaining who you're voting for. You mudding the waters and making false equivalences also reek of an agenda.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Globlist Facist Slave Dog
I feel like LD screwed my motive for trying to see where Potent/LLL/JR would vote. Those 3 were quieter. It would have been nice to see where they ended up and what they had to say. Instead LD changed it from 4-4 to 5-3 before they could even vote or have a say. I don't like that.
Seems like mad dog is pulling a kdogg and trying to write paragraphs of bs in self preservation. I don't think it makes him mafia but my vote is gonna stay where it is
I feel like all of LD's votes and discussion have been in self preservation mode tbh. I'm not "admitting" anything, I'm saying everyone does it and that shouldn't be something you harp on since all it does is make it easier for mafia to play the martyr. In recent games townies have been lynched day one over dumb things (and as inspector and mafia in the two most recent games I feel confident in saying that) so I feel like because I made a mistake in the order of who was stacked, I'm being lynched and everyone is off track.
I feel like I don't need to keep explaining I moved for more open votes, that was something that JR tried to peg me as mafia last game when I was inspector. I would rather have more people putting votes on different people than see the same people vote on the same people and vice versa. Such a mafia move.
That's a mighty fine false equivalence, coupled with some deflection to change the topic. Again, no. You're changing the subject and trying to claim LD and you have somehow done the same thing. Everyone absolutely does not rearrange a runoff at the last moment because they see a future advantage for themselves. Voting for self preservation, sure. What you did was a step beyond that and you know it.
But I like your attempt to make this my problem. I shouldn't point out the weird things you do because SOMEHOW it automatically makes it easier for the "mafia to play the martyr." By that logic nobody should point out anything at all and we should just vote blindly. Because there's nothing weird at all about you taking Jaz out of the last runoff at the last minute and him then returning the favor to try to take you out of this one this morning. Jaz's move makes more sense. Yours could easily have been machinations under the guize of "more open votes."
I don't think wanting more votes is a mafia move but your attempts the control the game are. Your contradictions in explaining who you're voting for. You mudding the waters and making false equivalences also reek of an agenda.
Lds vote for Zolah was a mistake by his own admission. He tried to get potent thrown in the runoff for seemingly no reason. He's making it harder to get multiple votes out of people. Idk what's false equivalency about that.
I feel like LD screwed my motive for trying to see where Potent/LLL/JR would vote. Those 3 were quieter. It would have been nice to see where they ended up and what they had to say. Instead LD changed it from 4-4 to 5-3 before they could even vote or have a say. I don't like that.
Yeah, that was a facepalm moment for sure.
Not gonna lie, I did jump the gun on that one. Totally my fault.
I feel like all of LD's votes and discussion have been in self preservation mode tbh. I'm not "admitting" anything, I'm saying everyone does it and that shouldn't be something you harp on since all it does is make it easier for mafia to play the martyr. In recent games townies have been lynched day one over dumb things (and as inspector and mafia in the two most recent games I feel confident in saying that) so I feel like because I made a mistake in the order of who was stacked, I'm being lynched and everyone is off track.
I feel like I don't need to keep explaining I moved for more open votes, that was something that JR tried to peg me as mafia last game when I was inspector. I would rather have more people putting votes on different people than see the same people vote on the same people and vice versa. Such a mafia move.
That's a mighty fine false equivalence, coupled with some deflection to change the topic. Again, no. You're changing the subject and trying to claim LD and you have somehow done the same thing. Everyone absolutely does not rearrange a runoff at the last moment because they see a future advantage for themselves. Voting for self preservation, sure. What you did was a step beyond that and you know it.
But I like your attempt to make this my problem. I shouldn't point out the weird things you do because SOMEHOW it automatically makes it easier for the "mafia to play the martyr." By that logic nobody should point out anything at all and we should just vote blindly. Because there's nothing weird at all about you taking Jaz out of the last runoff at the last minute and him then returning the favor to try to take you out of this one this morning. Jaz's move makes more sense. Yours could easily have been machinations under the guize of "more open votes."
I don't think wanting more votes is a mafia move but your attempts the control the game are. Your contradictions in explaining who you're voting for. You mudding the waters and making false equivalences also reek of an agenda.
I just think there are a lot of tropes in the game from players who have been playing on this board for a while and from the games I've played mafia has been able to play off of them since it's something everyone seems to be in consensus with. Ex. Carini quiet equals mafia, mafia doesn't stack round one, moving to a five person runoff is a mafia move, whoever "saves" someone is mafia, quiet runoff means mafias happy, etc. One of which being the you can vote me off because I'm town yada yada martyr card. I didn't make my move to drop myself out of the runoff, I made it for more votes. And your "facepalm oh ld" compared to the 3rd degree I'm getting is a little much.
That's a mighty fine false equivalence, coupled with some deflection to change the topic. Again, no. You're changing the subject and trying to claim LD and you have somehow done the same thing. Everyone absolutely does not rearrange a runoff at the last moment because they see a future advantage for themselves. Voting for self preservation, sure. What you did was a step beyond that and you know it.
But I like your attempt to make this my problem. I shouldn't point out the weird things you do because SOMEHOW it automatically makes it easier for the "mafia to play the martyr." By that logic nobody should point out anything at all and we should just vote blindly. Because there's nothing weird at all about you taking Jaz out of the last runoff at the last minute and him then returning the favor to try to take you out of this one this morning. Jaz's move makes more sense. Yours could easily have been machinations under the guize of "more open votes."
I don't think wanting more votes is a mafia move but your attempts the control the game are. Your contradictions in explaining who you're voting for. You mudding the waters and making false equivalences also reek of an agenda.
Lds vote for Zolah was a mistake by his own admission. He tried to get potent thrown in the runoff for seemingly no reason. He's making it harder to get multiple votes out of people. Idk what's false equivalency about that.
I explained it in the first paragraph??? As bad as some of LD's moves have been, they aren't the same as what I'm accusing you of. Therefore, it's illogical to try to compare them and try some whataboutism on the topic. That's a deflection and doesn't somehow make what you've done any less suspicion or worthy of scrutiny. Especially when the mafia tend to be more sneaky and plan moves out. In my opinion, the more insidious,calculated move looks a lot worse in this case. When I first brought this up to you, you defended it as something everyone does. So why should I now think you didn't know what you were doing? I'm certainly not moved by direct comparisons to LD's random actions.
That's a mighty fine false equivalence, coupled with some deflection to change the topic. Again, no. You're changing the subject and trying to claim LD and you have somehow done the same thing. Everyone absolutely does not rearrange a runoff at the last moment because they see a future advantage for themselves. Voting for self preservation, sure. What you did was a step beyond that and you know it.
But I like your attempt to make this my problem. I shouldn't point out the weird things you do because SOMEHOW it automatically makes it easier for the "mafia to play the martyr." By that logic nobody should point out anything at all and we should just vote blindly. Because there's nothing weird at all about you taking Jaz out of the last runoff at the last minute and him then returning the favor to try to take you out of this one this morning. Jaz's move makes more sense. Yours could easily have been machinations under the guize of "more open votes."
I don't think wanting more votes is a mafia move but your attempts the control the game are. Your contradictions in explaining who you're voting for. You mudding the waters and making false equivalences also reek of an agenda.
I just think there are a lot of tropes in the game from players who have been playing on this board for a while and from the games I've played mafia has been able to play off of them since it's something everyone seems to be in consensus with. Ex. Carini quiet equals mafia, mafia doesn't stack round one, moving to a five person runoff is a mafia move, whoever "saves" someone is mafia, quiet runoff means mafias happy, etc. One of which being the you can vote me off because I'm town yada yada martyr card. I didn't make my move to drop myself out of the runoff, I made it for more votes. And your "facepalm oh ld" compared to the 3rd degree I'm getting is a little much.
So instead of discussing the topic at hand you go off on some unrelated musings about mafia tropes. While I do agree it can be a little much. That's not all that's going on here, so it's hilarious to me that you once again are deflecting.
And I'm really sorry you didn't like me agreeing that LD made a dumb move. It's almost like I haven't spent any time making a case for what I'm doing. A case that has several different layers to it. So the fact that I made a lighthearted "facepalm" comment is totally proof of a double standard, right? Is that your angle?
Look, if people think you are getting a bad rap, that's fine. The flow of events make me think you absolutely are the best shot at the town getting a mafia this round. Your attempts at spin enforce that in my mind.
Too quiet, need to shake things up. I moved my vote from LLL to LD because I'm now voting with Zolah. She's currently in the runoff, so this prevents her from having a free vote, and it means that the 3 free votes are all people not in the runoff - LLL, SFA, Pablo. Of course this is pending any other vote switches, but that is my reasoning at this point in time.
which is less about shaping a runoff than these...
Makes no sense to kick someone (Zolah) out of a runoff if nobody is willing to join me putting someone else in.
That and if I move, do people think I'm saving Zolah? Cause that this point, I have no idea who anyone is. And I don't care about Zolah, unless she's the Inspector.
I also find it interesting that I've had my head on the block for requesting we speed things up and now again for requesting we slow things down. #mafiatropes.
Post by potentpotables on Sept 4, 2017 20:05:20 GMT -5
I'm tentatively going to place a vote to start to even things up. I'm trying to get a re-read in but it's proving unsuccessful while the Vols are on. I'll try again tonight or tomorrow morning.
