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if you search 'clear' or 'lean' it's very obvious that i was doing none of those things for anyone. there are multiple posts where I reference it as a dumb thing to say or that I am not leaning/clearing anyone, but its very disingenuous to say I've cleared or leaned town on anyone.
Here are my thoughts so far. I’m a few pages behind but will get caught up at some point.
Suspicous Viking Danbob Maddog
Unknown Jaz Potent
Pablo
Not Suspicious Thor Zolah
Town Taint ZIG
Dead JR
where as here you lean town on two unknowns based on a lean of viking, and you leave jaz as an unknown but not someone who's suspicious. people make mistakes and that's why "leaning" either way that early is stupid.
also in my back and forth with jr i mentioned being perfectly fine with viking being in the runoff.
i feel like i did a good job explaining why i thought each player would make sense with jaz, but all i've really heard about me is that i'm mafia with viking specifically, which as it stands he's about on equal footing as everyone not pablo/zig.
Dropped out (dropped them out): Tainted (JR) Zolah (ZIG) Dan (Tainted) JR (ZIG)
Pushed forward (who pushed): JR (Viking, Maddog, Potent) Zolah (ZIG) Dan (JR, ZIG) Viking (Thor, Zolah, Tainted, ZIG)
as many votes as pablo has had (6), he has really only been setting up votes. Less so with Potent but pretty similar. ZIG has had a big hand in shaping this as is. Tainted, Zolah, ZIG, JR all seem to be pretty connected with dropping out/pushing forward.
(not sure what it means, but taking out the context [because people lie JR] and trying to find the weighted voting pattern)
Dropped out (dropped them out): Tainted (JR) Zolah (ZIG) Dan (Tainted) JR (ZIG)
Pushed forward (who pushed): JR (Viking, Maddog, Potent) Zolah (ZIG) Dan (JR, ZIG) Viking (Thor, Zolah, Tainted, ZIG)
as many votes as pablo has had (6), he has really only been setting up votes. Less so with Potent but pretty similar. ZIG has had a big hand in shaping this as is. Tainted, Zolah, ZIG, JR all seem to be pretty connected with dropping out/pushing forward.
(not sure what it means, but taking out the context [because people lie JR] and trying to find the weighted voting pattern)
Lots of town on this list back from day 1.
right, because i didn't know dick. and thats why i wanted to focus on the quieter players instead since enough people were concerned with zolah, dan, jr, viking, and you.
^^^And after you posted that, 3 players came out and essentially liked or agreed with it: Danbob, Jaz, Viking.
That’s why I keep saying “piggy-backing”. It’s hard not to notice you and Viking bouncing back on each other’s ideas and largely supporting them or having similar ideas.
^^^And after you posted that, 3 players came out and essentially liked or agreed with it: Danbob, Jaz, Viking.
That’s why I keep saying “piggy-backing”. It’s hard not to notice you and Viking bouncing back on each other’s ideas and largely supporting them or having similar ideas.
I agree that I have felt the same about dan, and mentioned Jaz doing it after as well. So did JR.
^^^And after you posted that, 3 players came out and essentially liked or agreed with it: Danbob, Jaz, Viking.
That’s why I keep saying “piggy-backing”. It’s hard not to notice you and Viking bouncing back on each other’s ideas and largely supporting them or having similar ideas.
and to that, viking and dan both had something to say about your threat level chart, in that they had it flipped or whatever.
Left to vote: Danbob Maddog Potent Thor Viking Zig Zolah
Deadline = Noon ET (11 am CT) on Thursday, Jan. 4th
not a surprise. 5 unknowns to me, not sure which direction I want to take it, seems like we've got enough time. if anyone would like to refute why my "reasons they could be tied to jaz" post, or offer alternative theories not involving me that would be helpful.
At this point it’s clear to me the Tainted whack points to 3 players. Tainted made a power move 3-stack on Danbob earlier in day one. Even though Danbob was facing a straight vote-off, Tainted refused to remove his vote from Danbob, hoping to find out who would move their vote off Dan. Interestingly, JR was one of the guys on Danbob. Maybe Tainted was looking to see if JR would save Danbob.
Next, Tainted explicitly says that he thinks JR is playing more like a townie, and Viking is playing more like non-townie. That’s directly pointing at Viking, and I do not believe Tainted made any other explicit posts saying someone leans town/mafia to him (please correct me if I’m wrong).
Finally, Tainted saves Viking and switches to JR, doing in JR. Naturally this points to JR, who is dead, but may nonetheless have been mafia. This also directly contradicts his earlier post that JR is looking more like town than Viking. He later states it was a ploy to see if anyone else would save Viking (which also doesn’t make sense to me, but whatever).
Interesting that no one has suggested a “misdirection” whack. If JR was a mafia, then Tainted is a great whack because JR is already dead and Tainted could otherwise point to two unrelated players (Viking and Danbob).
Thoughts on this, people?
I’m curious what ZIG/JAZ/Zolah think in particular.
I also still thinking Viking is a lying sack of shit, regardless if he’s town here or not.
I'm at work so I'm still getting caught up, but in general I don't think Day 1 whacks are misdirection unless the Mafia has absolutely no clue who to whack - and in that case, they're usually better off voting for one of the more dangerous townies. A couple games back I was Mafia with ZIG, and our Day 1 whack pointed directly at him - and all the townies thought it was misdirection for some reason. They actually thought I was suspicious for suggesting that it wasn't misdirection. As Mafia the primary aim is to kill the Inspector. So I don't think they were going for a misdirection, and if they were, I don't think they would have chosen to whack Tainted. So I think it was something that Tainted did or said.
After going through Tainted's posts, I don't think he had JR's name. His comment about thinking JR sounded like a townie doesn't really jibe with that idea. He did become more suspicious of JR as the Day progressed, but his posts read to me more like a townie's thoughts evolving on a player than him being an Inspector with a name.
And as for Viking, sure Tainted expressed suspicion of him - but then switched off of him to kill JR at the end of the Day. There's no way he'd have done that if he had Viking's name. Doesn't mean Viking (or JR) aren't Mafia, but I don't think either of them were Tainted's given name if Tainted was Inspector.
I agree with you about the three people the whack points to as far as Tainted's comments are concerned. If he had one of those three, I think it's most likely Danbob. Otherwise, I think it's more likely the Mafia thought he had the name of you, Zolah, or ZIG, and his final vote was just to vote opposite of his given name.
Now that we know Jaz is Mafia, this post gives me the feeling that the Taint Night 1 whack was mostly misdirection to point at JR, which is exactly what happened and how Day 2 took shape.
if you search 'clear' or 'lean' it's very obvious that i was doing none of those things for anyone. there are multiple posts where I reference it as a dumb thing to say or that I am not leaning/clearing anyone, but its very disingenuous to say I've cleared or leaned town on anyone.
You don’t need to explicitly say “clear” or “lean” to convey how you feel about a player. I, for instance, usually out out a suspicion list so it is clear how my feelings towards other players are and it is more difficult to twist my words with players like Viking or Dogg Whistle. But when you put out varying lists throughout Day 2 of players you believe need scrutiny, which you have been doing this game, and basically every list excludes a player or two (Viking in this example), from my perspective you are “implicitly” moving that person down your suspicion list, whether you will admit it or not.
Add in the fact that Viking is an extremely divisive player, and that you implicitly ignore him when discussing who to target, it sticks out because of all players, he should be one to have a more detailed opinion of.
Also, add in that Viking has seemingly continued to clear you as town with minimal evidence, it runs as though the two of you are working together. Even when he got pushback, he provided a seeemingly random list of your posts to “claim” you were town, but when I read through them it felt like a bunch on non-sequitors and dodging on his part.
if you search 'clear' or 'lean' it's very obvious that i was doing none of those things for anyone. there are multiple posts where I reference it as a dumb thing to say or that I am not leaning/clearing anyone, but its very disingenuous to say I've cleared or leaned town on anyone.
You don’t need to explicitly say “clear” or “lean” to convey how you feel about a player. I, for instance, usually out out a suspicion list so it is clear how my feelings towards other players are and it is more difficult to twist my words with players like Viking or Dogg Whistle. But when you put out varying lists throughout Day 2 of players you believe need scrutiny, which you have been doing this game, and basically every list excludes a player or two (Viking in this example), from my perspective you are “implicitly” moving that person down your suspicion list, whether you will admit it or not.
Add in the fact that Viking is an extremely divisive player, and that you implicitly ignore him when discussing who to target, it sticks out because of all players, he should be one to have a more detailed opinion of.
Also, add in that Viking has seemingly continued to clear you as town with minimal evidence, it runs as though the two of you are working together. Even when he got pushback, he provided a seeemingly random list of your posts to “claim” you were town, but when I read through them it felt like a bunch on non-sequitors and dodging on his part.
He's in that list. I've stated he's fine being in the runoff. I said him and zolahs back and forth were notable. I said that if zolah/jr/etc. are mafia it doesnt mean he isn't. I'm sorry I didn't immediately fall in line with your plan.
I was more explicit about my feelings with jaz, I just chose to go more after thor.
I don't know what else to tell you at this point. And as far as making it more "difficult to twist my words" its also really easy to take that list and spin it, which is why you have a reputation as 4th mafia.
jaz seemed pretty intent on discrediting viking, could be distancing, but a good % of his posts were doing that. vikings vote for/off him also fits that, and I could see them being together. because despite all that he voted for zolah this round.
zolah left jaz out of her "quiet players to look at next" post, but after the whack she votes him instead of thor/zig/potent/pablo. she could have gotten her vote stuck on him in this round, remember, we were headed to a 3-way tie which would have given cover (similar scenario in 108 i believe).
there's not really a lot i see with thor/jaz tbh, but he was also 'cleared' by viking earlier in the game, and generally seemed to come around to the same ideas. he's also generally a hard read.
dan aside from defending jaz when pablo was prodding, when given the choice of putting in quiet players, he jumped on the thor train after my stab in the dark.
potent is still basically a mystery to me, which is a bad thing at this point. i guess he could have pushed jaz in when i bumped zig to three and instead replaced my vote on thor.
just before we all barrel down the me and jaz line of thinking.
ZIG do you have anything to add to this, or refute this, other than just continuing to grill me? the only player i can't really make a jaz connection on is thor.
Maddog, yes, I left Jaz off my “list” of quiet players, but I also left Thor off of it too. I was more interested in Potent/Tainted because of the 3 stacking in D1 and Zig because he was quiet and making the power moves. I believe you were the one pounding that one into the ground. I could have voted for Thor to go into the runoff with me, but instead put a vote on Jaz because he fit the criteria of quiet Viking voter and had a lower post count than Thor.
After being lashed out at and come at about possible cheating, and Maddog telling me I could have done XY or Z instead of what I did, I questioned even continuing this game. I won’t be playing or reffing the next game. If I had to guess, mafia would be Jaz, Maddog & Viking but I will get a better read in tomorrow.
a. yeah i know, you already explained, you don't need to re quote yourself (words can be bullshit), I was just listing alternative theories and why each person would make sense with jaz.
b. most of that x y z was directed towards how I felt about jr. and bowing out of the game because of it is bullshit. good grief. i legitimately don't get why people sign up if theyre not going to be in a place to contribute or if they just admit to not giving a shit or trying.
and for what it's worth i absolutely think that what I said regarding telling the ref of this game that rules were missing is the right thing to do. i didn't immediately equate that to being mafia, or that you were cheating, but that should apply to everyone. you were the one that said it was ok that me and pablo play because you and jr dont talk about it while playing, and there have been times where he was playing without you and you commented and i thought that might be pushing it. there have been games pablo hasn't played where he said he thought about liking my posts but didn't because he thought it might be too much of an influence.
this is now the third person to claim me jaz and viking off of one given name. i cant wait til the end of the game to tell y'all how wrong y'all are.
And FWIW, I don't think I need to type out to my husband in between games that he missed some rules. In hindsight, I'd even do the same thing over. Have you and Pablo never discussed a past game? People do it whether it's a private PM or in person. And this wasn't even about the game or during a game. Why this has been such an issue to push, I really don't know. Apparently you and Viking have had a problem with it and I'm out after this.
And I'm actually not sold on Viking and Maddog being mafia together. I think it seems like they are too much in sync. I do think that out of the two of them though, that Viking is more likely mafia. He was extremely abrasive and now that things are shaping in the way he wants, he's playing it cool. I feel like Jaz got stuck on him D1 and that left the perfect opportunity to whack Tainted.
Maddog is acting a whole lot like he did last game. Very erratic. Viking's post of why Maddog is town is crap. I think Zig said it was a bunch of quotes with random sentences in between it. That's all it was. I don't know if he's trying to tie Maddog to him, get him on his side, or what the deal with that was.
Viking's first vote was also for Jaz. I'm curious if this was possible distancing until he quickly leapt off of him to his first victim?
^you're making it into a bigger thing than it needs to be. its not the fact you discussed in general it was a timing thing, and jr calling out dan for cheating.
i honestly dont give a shit. but if you're going to stop contributing over it in this game, thats pretty lame of you. you have now brought it up twice without being asked so clearly it's on your mind, but try to drop it and maybe play the game?
did a quick re read; jaz seemed pretty intent on discrediting viking, could be distancing, but a good % of his posts were doing that. vikings vote for/off him also fits that, and I could see them being together. because despite all that he voted for zolah this round.
zolah left jaz out of her "quiet players to look at next" post, but after the whack she votes him instead of thor/zig/potent/pablo. she could have gotten her vote stuck on him in this round, remember, we were headed to a 3-way tie which would have given cover (similar scenario in 108 i believe).
there's not really a lot i see with thor/jaz tbh, but he was also 'cleared' by viking earlier in the game, and generally seemed to come around to the same ideas. he's also generally a hard read.
dan aside from defending jaz when pablo was prodding, when given the choice of putting in quiet players, he jumped on the thor train after my stab in the dark.
potent is still basically a mystery to me, which is a bad thing at this point. i guess he could have pushed jaz in when i bumped zig to three and instead replaced my vote on thor.
just before we all barrel down the me and jaz line of thinking.
ZIG do you have anything to add to this, or refute this, other than just continuing to grill me? the only player i can't really make a jaz connection on is thor.
@zolah you've touched on both of these, what about the remaining 3? you had potent on a short list early, and he's basically been a nothing burger this game.
^you're making it into a bigger thing than it needs to be. its not the fact you discussed in general it was a timing thing, and jr calling out dan for cheating.
i honestly dont give a shit. but if you're going to stop contributing over it in this game, thats pretty lame of you. you have now brought it up twice without being asked so clearly it's on your mind, but try to drop it and maybe play the game?
When have I not contributed/played the game? Because I had New Years Eve/Day plans? Last game I said and I quote:
Would prefer to start on the 26th, mostly cause Sunday/Monday is gonna be crazy busy for me.
I'm good with waiting or starting whenever. I'll have a lot of moments of "disappearing" from tomorrow through Jan 4 when my kids go back to school though. Just saying that now.
Yes, I am frustrated having my character in question. It frankly pisses me off.
there, call it distancing, whatever, put I would like to see him, dan, and potent in this one. they're the most unknown to me. viking to jaz distancing is a lot less risky than what zolah would have had to do. thor has had more heat on him than the other two recently and for the time being I'm fine with looking at others (dan/potent). I do kind of think it's a little bizarre that the person who dropped out of the final runoff on D1 wasn't put back in the runoff, since I've played games where that person ended up being mafia, maybe that's on me, but others seemed more concerned with him and backed off.
^you're making it into a bigger thing than it needs to be. its not the fact you discussed in general it was a timing thing, and jr calling out dan for cheating.
i honestly dont give a shit. but if you're going to stop contributing over it in this game, thats pretty lame of you. you have now brought it up twice without being asked so clearly it's on your mind, but try to drop it and maybe play the game?
When have I not contributed/played the game? Because I had New Years Eve/Day plans? Last game I said and I quote:
I'm good with waiting or starting whenever. I'll have a lot of moments of "disappearing" from tomorrow through Jan 4 when my kids go back to school though. Just saying that now.
Yes, I am frustrated having my character in question. It frankly pisses me off.
you already mentioned that you thought about not playing this game after your exchange with viking, that's what I'm referencing not you 'disappearing'.
When have I not contributed/played the game? Because I had New Years Eve/Day plans? Last game I said and I quote: Yes, I am frustrated having my character in question. It frankly pisses me off.
you already mentioned that you thought about not playing this game after your exchange with viking, that's what I'm referencing not you 'disappearing'.
I have another tab up to answer your previous questions, but I wanted to clear it up that I never meant I would be quitting this game, though it has crossed my mind. (And I don't feel like looking up exactly what I said. I'm sure it could have come across that way). I have watched people vote for themselves and quit and refuse to do that... However I will take 1-100 games off.
jaz seemed pretty intent on discrediting viking, could be distancing, but a good % of his posts were doing that. vikings vote for/off him also fits that, and I could see them being together. because despite all that he voted for zolah this round.
zolah left jaz out of her "quiet players to look at next" post, but after the whack she votes him instead of thor/zig/potent/pablo. she could have gotten her vote stuck on him in this round, remember, we were headed to a 3-way tie which would have given cover (similar scenario in 108 i believe).
there's not really a lot i see with thor/jaz tbh, but he was also 'cleared' by viking earlier in the game, and generally seemed to come around to the same ideas. he's also generally a hard read.
dan aside from defending jaz when pablo was prodding, when given the choice of putting in quiet players, he jumped on the thor train after my stab in the dark.
potent is still basically a mystery to me, which is a bad thing at this point. i guess he could have pushed jaz in when i bumped zig to three and instead replaced my vote on thor.
just before we all barrel down the me and jaz line of thinking.
Quoted this version so all the previous text is there to reply to. I replied to the first 2 previously. As for the last 3:
Thor is a ? to me. He seems to have been in line with what I've been thinking so while I have no reason to go after him, I really have no reason to trust him either. He'd be low on my radar though.
I think Dan is town again. I've been mafia twice and both times was with him and he's usually a little more reserved and "questioning." I feel, and maybe I'm wrong, that he's been more posting/fighting this game than in the past.
Potent had a pass while "getting married" or whatever, but he'd be next on my list after Viking. He has a whopping 19 posts in 23 pages.
I feel like JR was probably town. D1 lynch is usually town (asked previously if anyone had data on this, but I don't think they did). With Jaz being mafia and Tainted being the whack I feel pretty confident that there was 1 mafia on Viking and 2 on JR. Viking & Potent.
