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The thing that concerns me about Yang is that he wants to offer the UBI in lieu of all other social services, so you could either have the 1000/month OR food stamps, Medicaid, social security.. but not both. At that point it doesn't seem like it would really help anyone and in many cases would just hurt them.
Just on the college debt thing, real quick: I think it's good overall, and it would certainly help me personally. But there's a little bit of it that's appealing to people who were privileged enough to even go to college, and especially to those who went to professional or graduate schools, and those people made their own decisions.
Not trying to be a smart ass, but you’re close to articulating Warren’s position on loan forgiveness here. I think making college free for everyone, including the people who can afford it, makes sense because it gives the rich an incentive to actually support the quality of public education, since a meaningful number will be attending public universities. But giving loan forgiveness to people who can easily afford their bills doesn’t do a lot for me when there are other uses for the government’s money.
Lol it's cool.
If I'm interpreting this right, you're saying that Warren's plan is more in line with my thoughts because it is capped at something closer to what public college tuition, as opposed to private, is hovering around? Because to my knowledge Sanders' position is that college should be free and has been at least since his previous presidential run.
Yeah..... my hot take is that this war tax is stupid and my taxes should already be going towards veteran benefits and we shouldn't be in these wars in the first place. So excuse me for not wanting to pay more in taxes for stuff that should already be included.
I'll pay more taxes if it's for universal healthcare. Or if I ever become ultra wealthy. Then tax the shit out of me, hard.
My dream is to make a million and get taxed at 45%. So I have a reason to keep going out there and make millions, and have the resources to do so. Then if I want to invest in the community and the world's poverty and environmental issues to lower it to 37%.
I doubt this was his rationale, but a war tax would probably go a long way to ending nonsense US wars. Do you think Americans would have been all fired up to invade Iraq if it had been coming out of their paychecks? Death and suffering may not sway people, but a 5% increase on payroll taxes would make pacifists out of lots of folks.
Mostly agree -- but then mostly agree with the above should be involved in our taxes and war spending already, and that it's a bad precedent for the future. That's all. But it's an idea worth swaying, just not worth winning on
Post by piggy pablo on Jun 24, 2019 10:35:41 GMT -5
I think what I have an issue with regarding this form of UBI is that the more you move people away from those programs the less incentive you give to people to support those programs and, while I'm somewhat libertarian when it comes to financial decisions, those people may not make the best decisions with their money, while keeping in place existing social programs generally will keep that used for food and healthcare.
Really, though, I am in support of universal healthcare, so that ideally wouldn't factor into any form of UBI, or veteran healthcare, like what came up this morning. And, I think it's important to establish things like water, food, and medicine as rights in this country, as they are in most of the rest of the world. Giving everybody 12k/yr and letting the little amount of social safety net we have fall away to a more pure form of capitalism is not something we can allow as a nation for our long-term survival.
I think what I have an issue with regarding this form of UBI is that the more you move people away from those programs the less incentive you give to people to support those programs and, while I'm somewhat libertarian when it comes to financial decisions, those people may not make the best decisions with their money, while keeping in place existing social programs generally will keep that used for food and healthcare.
Really, though, I am in support of universal healthcare, so that ideally wouldn't factor into any form of UBI, or veteran healthcare, like what came up this morning. And, I think it's important to establish things like water, food, and medicine as rights in this country, as they are in most of the rest of the world. Giving everybody 12k/yr and letting the little amount of social safety net we have fall away to a more pure form of capitalism is not something we can allow as a nation for our long-term survival.
There will be people who make poor decisions with the 12k. That doesn't worry me as much as it does you, I suppose. There will be abuses of every system kinda thing.
Definitely understand your point on the order of prioritization between healthcare vs cash. I think the problems that UBI would help to delay / prevent will become even more dangerous than our current healthcare issues down the line. But that's because I buy into a lot of the automation talk that Yang is so great on. I also think the UBI is more likely to get passed in the way Yang wants it than M4A in the form Bernie wants it passed.
I'd be interested in seeing a poll of every household making less than $60k (made up this number), asking whether they think 12k or free healthcare would improve their lives more. I have a gut feeling that would come back in resounding favor of UBI. Both are extremely important to me, though. Probably don't need this disclaimer but I will happily end up voting for Bernie or Warren if they win the nom.
Warren’s debt relief position is full forgiveness for 75% of people, something for the 75%-95% range, and then 5% of people won’t get anything. Both of them think public college should be free.
So it's the $50k figure and it grades downwards based on household income if that income is greater than 100k. Either way is I think good but definitely helps people who could go to college.
Simply saying that it's nice, but a lot of people don't go to college, and that the most important thing going forward is financing public education at all levels.
Healthcare can get much more expensive than 12k/yr very quickly.
That's not what I meant to say. I'm saying that the theme of more and more people being displaced from their jobs because of automation could and probably will turn into a larger / more divisive issue than healthcare the further we go along avoiding the topic. Thankfully, Yang is bringing it to the spotlight.
Right now, Healthcare can and does cost much more than 12k per month for some people.
"The total health care costs for [case study's] breast cancer treatment in 2016 were $144,193."
Before the ACA, an ER visit was 3k out of pocket. Also before being able to be an employee of my own business, which I am, to achieve Medicaid or Medicare (will change if I start earning more money): My "$900"/mos meds would be impossible by now. It would have drained my family because they would have paid for them. Only thing I'm glad Obama did, was start a conversation that healthcare becomes a basic right. Slow as fuck. but true.
Healthcare can get much more expensive than 12k/yr very quickly.
That's not what I meant to say. I'm saying that the theme of more and more people being displaced from their jobs because of automation could and probably will turn into a larger / more divisive issue than healthcare the further we go along avoiding the topic. Thankfully, Yang is bringing it to the spotlight.
Right now, Healthcare can and does cost much more than 12k per month for some people.
I think this is not a disagreement but a different angle of how we economically structured. Speculation is a huge part of the marketplace instead of actual spending, inventory, and inflation. So when that comes into play as legal capitalism, we get entangled in a messed up process. Which is a lot of what this is all about
Healthcare can get much more expensive than 12k/yr very quickly.
That's not what I meant to say. I'm saying that the theme of more and more people being displaced from their jobs because of automation could and probably will turn into a larger / more divisive issue than healthcare the further we go along avoiding the topic. Thankfully, Yang is bringing it to the spotlight.
Right now, Healthcare can and does cost much more than 12k per month for some people.
I think that automation is an interesting thing to talk about, but things have been increasingly automated since the invention of tools. It may be a problem in the future, but how many advances in robotics have already been made, how many construction jobs and agricultural jobs have been eliminated with machines already, how many jobs have already been eliminated by software?
I think we probably will approach a tipping point eventually, but I don't think automation is a top priority yet, and I also think that it would be more beneficial to humanity to define labors' rights, as well as other rights, than to simply give everyone some (not even really that much, well below a median household income) money. It can be part of the conversation, but making it so much of a focus is maybe missing the forest for the trees?
Healthcare can get much more expensive than 12k/yr very quickly.
That's not what I meant to say. I'm saying that the theme of more and more people being displaced from their jobs because of automation could and probably will turn into a larger / more divisive issue than healthcare the further we go along avoiding the topic. Thankfully, Yang is bringing it to the spotlight.
Right now, Healthcare can and does cost much more than 12k per month for some people.
But if you don't focus on the systematic problems and regulate it there you're just creating further class devision.
You're also using tax money to subsidize the existing economic structure that heavly favors those of means. Nothing is stopping them from raising prices... rent, etc.
Not saying UBI is doomed to fail but Yang needs to work on regulatory ideas or it's just prolonging the problem.
That's not what I meant to say. I'm saying that the theme of more and more people being displaced from their jobs because of automation could and probably will turn into a larger / more divisive issue than healthcare the further we go along avoiding the topic. Thankfully, Yang is bringing it to the spotlight.
Right now, Healthcare can and does cost much more than 12k per month for some people.
I think that automation is an interesting thing to talk about, but things have been increasingly automated since the invention of tools. It may be a problem in the future, but how many advances in robotics have already been made, how many construction jobs and agricultural jobs have been eliminated with machines already, how many jobs have already been eliminated by software?
I think we probably will approach a tipping point eventually, but I don't think automation is a top priority yet, and I also think that it would be more beneficial to humanity to define labors' rights, as well as other rights, than to simply give everyone some (not even really that much, well below a median household income) money. It can be part of the conversation, but making it so much of a focus is maybe missing the forest for the trees?
The automation that Yang is worried about is already here. This is too close to his stump speech for comfort but...
We already automated away 4 million manufacturing jobs in all of those states that Trump needed to win and did by speaking directly to those people while Hillary ignored them. Retraining programs had a success rate of less than 15%. Many of those people have not worked since losing that manufacturing job. Half filed for disability and the opiod crisis has spiked in those communities.
There already is a direct line to automation destroying communities that relied on manufacturing jobs, and that is only the beginning. 30% of malls will close in the next 4 years, self driving trucks are happening in the 2020s, fast food and retail will be donezo soon. And its not just blue collar work. Radiology, entry level legal and clerical work, etc...
Yang's ubi isn't a solution, but it is meant to serve as a landing pad to ease the transition. He has like 10-20 other policies listed on his website meant to also combat this problem in tandem with the UBI.
That's not what I meant to say. I'm saying that the theme of more and more people being displaced from their jobs because of automation could and probably will turn into a larger / more divisive issue than healthcare the further we go along avoiding the topic. Thankfully, Yang is bringing it to the spotlight.
Right now, Healthcare can and does cost much more than 12k per month for some people.
But if you don't focus on the systematic problems and regulate it there you're just creating further class devision.
You're also using tax money to subsidize the existing economic structure that heavly favors those of means. Nothing is stopping them from raising prices... rent, etc.
Not saying UBI is doomed to fail but Yang needs to work on regulatory ideas or it's just prolonging the problem.
It's really only rent that I don't believe Yang has a good plan for. There aren't many other areas where inflation makes sense. He also plans to increase the UBI with inflation.
In the end I think Yang views a world where there are going to be massive winners and a majority of losers. He wants to transform our definition of value in our economy which is currently too closely attached to work considering where we are going. The $1000 is not a silver bullet, but I believe he is the person most clearly understanding this problem and working to find innovative ways to combat it.
I think Yang would admit that there will likely be unforeseen consequences that he will need to prep for after testing / rolling out the UBI. THe thing I've liked about him is that he admits when he is wrong about something and adjusts his plan accordingly. Some call that weakness or flip-flopping, but I think it's critical if you are trying to pass something this massive.
If you can’t see that Trump is about to win in a landslide, then you really shouldn’t be commenting on politics.
And I thought I was pessimistic. He will with that attitude. I'll go down fighting to the end to stop that shit. And I'm going to keep commenting on politics.
If you can’t see that Trump is about to win in a landslide, then you really shouldn’t be commenting on politics.
You're so fucking clueless about politics you think Trump could win in a landside.
He could very well win. We've all discussed this. History will be on his side in this economy. The electoral college is also a huge boon. But thinking it could be a landslide makes you either a dumbfuck or a troll.
If you can’t see that Trump is about to win in a landslide, then you really shouldn’t be commenting on politics.
You're so fucking clueless about politics you think Trump could win in a landside.
He could very well win. We've all discussed this. History will be on his side in this economy. The electoral college is also a huge boon. But thinking it could be a landslide makes you either a dumbfuck or a troll.
You seem like a completely stable and reasonable individual.
You're so fucking clueless about politics you think Trump could win in a landside.
He could very well win. We've all discussed this. History will be on his side in this economy. The electoral college is also a huge boon. But thinking it could be a landslide makes you either a dumbfuck or a troll.
You seem like a completely stable and reasonable individual.
and you seem to have the cognitive ability of something I'd shit out after a week's worth of gas station sushi and Slim Jims.
What states is he going to win that he didn’t win last time? Why?
Because people who were originally on the #NeverTrump bandwagon are starting to come around. The left is so much of a clusterfuck that they are making him seem like the most stable option.
Ah yes, the “Obama was just as bad” lie Republicans tell themselves so they can sleep at night.
Obama did the exact same things. So did Bush, Clinton, Bush, etc.
I really don’t care who wins, because the presidency is just a spectacle that truly has zero control over the general population. It’s the people behind the scenes that pull the strings, and no election will ever change that. I’m just saying Trump is easily winning 2020 at this rate, because I’m smarter than you and can see it.