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He was the only one to bring up the war in Yemen, he stayed on message, he stayed above the fray, and everyone else is chasing him on policy.
I feel like you're the first person that got that impression. Don't get me wrong, I think he did fine but I don't think he did anything to pick up any support.
Maybe I'm wrong. Polling should start coming out in a few days. I expect Harris, Warren, Booker, Buttigieg and Gabbard to pick up a few points.
Post by piggy pablo on Jun 29, 2019 14:48:41 GMT -5
Hmm..
I don't think he necessarily picked up any support as far as generating any potent soundbites, but he stayed on message and his message is a very popular one to begin with.
You cannot deny that candidates are piggybacking off of his ideas. And he has the record to back up those ideas being central to his platform, whereas virtually no one else can do so.
Also, I think it is necessary and vital for him to express the reality that electing a president will not solve all of these problems, that it is important for the people to be mobilized moreso than electing one figure as president, which again, no one else is articulating in this primary.
I think he did a pretty good job. He stayed out of the bullshit, and he appealed to a segment of the population that would otherwise be disenchanted with a cop arguing with a segregationist about bussing.
As far as Harris and Buttigieg picked up voters, they probably picked them up from Biden, not Bernie.
Probably an unpopular opinion here but I don’t feel Bernie is a good candidate to follow Trump. I agree with him ideologically and voted for him in the primaries of last election, but I feel that it may be swinging too far left at one time. People don’t like sudden change and Bernie would be a tremendous change. I believe if we want long-lasting liberal policies and a hold on the Oval Office we need to elect someone a little less liberal this time around. At least someone who can pass things such as climate change and gun control. I honestly feel that Bernie self identifying as a socialist hurts him amongst certain populations. Even if his beliefs aren’t anything too out of the ordinary for the Democratic Party
Post by piggy pablo on Jun 29, 2019 15:33:47 GMT -5
Bernie doesn't identify as a socialist. He identifies as a democratic socialist. He is essentially an FDR-type New Dealer.
Candidates who run against the system have won over the past twelve or so years. Obama won on Hope and Change. Trump won on blowing up the system.
We only have so many opportunities to actually win back power for the people. Bernie is, in my opinion, the only such chance we have really seen in my lifetime.
The point isn't who's president. The point is people waking up to a political paradigm that doesn't hate and condescend to them.
Post by SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal on Jun 29, 2019 15:36:54 GMT -5
Climate change legislation that's worth even bothering with and gun control would both be radical changes to a lot of people.
We live in a shitty, reactionary society. There will be pushback no matter what. Placating these people does us zero good.
The only real argument is how much is too much at once. I'd say focus on the ones with popular support that will almost certainly keep a certain floor of popularity. Those would be some form of single payer and the GND.
I don't think he necessarily picked up any support as far as generating any potent soundbites, but he stayed on message and his message is a very popular one to begin with.
You cannot deny that candidates are piggybacking off of his ideas. And he has the record to back up those ideas being central to his platform, whereas virtually no one else can do so.
Also, I think it is necessary and vital for him to express the reality that electing a president will not solve all of these problems, that it is important for the people to be mobilized moreso than electing one figure as president, which again, no one else is articulating in this primary.
I think he did a pretty good job. He stayed out of the bullshit, and he appealed to a segment of the population that would otherwise be disenchanted with a cop arguing with a segregationist about bussing.
As far as Harris and Buttigieg picked up voters, they probably picked them up from Biden, not Bernie.
Two things...
I think that if everyone has a platform pretty near his (because they're 'piggybacking' off him) then it may just come down to personality and not policy. In which case, they might choose someone other than an old white male.
And second, I think that the 'Harris is a cop' thing is pretty played out. She's been asked about why she took the prosecutorial route and said that she thought that she could do more good that way since there were not a lot of women or people of color on that side of the table. I think that's a solid point.
I don't think he necessarily picked up any support as far as generating any potent soundbites, but he stayed on message and his message is a very popular one to begin with.
You cannot deny that candidates are piggybacking off of his ideas. And he has the record to back up those ideas being central to his platform, whereas virtually no one else can do so.
Also, I think it is necessary and vital for him to express the reality that electing a president will not solve all of these problems, that it is important for the people to be mobilized moreso than electing one figure as president, which again, no one else is articulating in this primary.
I think he did a pretty good job. He stayed out of the bullshit, and he appealed to a segment of the population that would otherwise be disenchanted with a cop arguing with a segregationist about bussing.
As far as Harris and Buttigieg picked up voters, they probably picked them up from Biden, not Bernie.
Two things...
I think that if everyone has a platform pretty near his (because they're 'piggybacking' off him) then it may just come down to personality and not policy. In which case, they might choose someone other than an old white male.
And second, I think that the 'Harris is a cop' thing is pretty played out. She's been asked about why she took the prosecutorial route and said that she thought that she could do more good that way since there were not a lot of women or people of color on that side of the table. I think that's a solid point.
I think policy and consistency are more important than identity and being born a certain way than you do. You choose to label Bernie as an "old white male" not because you are interested in identity politics (because you are also an old white white male, let's be honest) but because you hate left policies. Bernie is trying to advocate for minorities in a way that Buttigieg and Harris and Warren actually are not.
If only we could have a candidate with Bernie's integrity, Warren's ability to articulate clear policies, Harris' strength and fierceness, and Buttigieg's effortless intelligence. Bernie and Warren's experience and progressive ideas, with Harris and Buttigieg's more youthful charisma
I think that if everyone has a platform pretty near his (because they're 'piggybacking' off him) then it may just come down to personality and not policy. In which case, they might choose someone other than an old white male.
And second, I think that the 'Harris is a cop' thing is pretty played out. She's been asked about why she took the prosecutorial route and said that she thought that she could do more good that way since there were not a lot of women or people of color on that side of the table. I think that's a solid point.
I think policy and consistency are more important than identity and being born a certain way than you do. You choose to label Bernie as an "old white male" not because you are interested in identity politics (because you are also an old white white male, let's be honest) but because you hate left policies. Bernie is trying to advocate for minorities in a way that Buttigieg and Harris and Warren actually are not.
First of all, I don't hate left policies. Let's clear that up. I don't think that every policy the far left espouses is the perfect solution, true. But I'm on board with probably 90% of what the rest of the posters here support. I'm just willing to accept that with some of the left's goals it's probably going to take a series of steps to get there.
When I talk about identity politics I'm taking about Democratic voters in general. Hell, there were a bunch of candidates at the debates taking about letting a younger generation lead.
I think policy and consistency are more important than identity and being born a certain way than you do. You choose to label Bernie as an "old white male" not because you are interested in identity politics (because you are also an old white white male, let's be honest) but because you hate left policies. Bernie is trying to advocate for minorities in a way that Buttigieg and Harris and Warren actually are not.
First of all, I don't hate left policies. Let's clear that up. I don't think that every policy the far left espouses is the perfect solution, true. But I'm on board with probably 90% of what the rest of the posters here support. I'm just willing to accept that with some of the left's goals it's probably going to take a series of steps to get there.
When I talk about identity politics I'm taking about Democratic voters in general. Hell, there were a bunch of candidates at the debates taking about letting a younger generation lead.
I'm not interested in this or that generation leading. I'd rather someone with integrity and a track record lead. There's one person like that in the race.
First of all, I don't hate left policies. Let's clear that up. I don't think that every policy the far left espouses is the perfect solution, true. But I'm on board with probably 90% of what the rest of the posters here support. I'm just willing to accept that with some of the left's goals it's probably going to take a series of steps to get there.
When I talk about identity politics I'm taking about Democratic voters in general. Hell, there were a bunch of candidates at the debates taking about letting a younger generation lead.
I'm not interested in this or that generation leading. I'd rather someone with integrity and a track record lead.
And that's fine.
The thing that I was saying was that other factors may matter to other voters and so if they can still get some flavor of Bernie's policies while voting for someone that they like better for demographic or personality reasons then they might.
Post by piggy pablo on Jun 29, 2019 18:07:49 GMT -5
No one is going to press as hard for the same policies that Bernie is. He says as much himself. It's not about this person or that person or this demo or that. It's not about old or young. It's fighting your whole life vs adopting a platform when its "flavor" becomes personally expedient.
I think policy and consistency are more important than identity and being born a certain way than you do. You choose to label Bernie as an "old white male" not because you are interested in identity politics (because you are also an old white white male, let's be honest) but because you hate left policies. Bernie is trying to advocate for minorities in a way that Buttigieg and Harris and Warren actually are not.
First of all, I don't hate left policies. Let's clear that up. I don't think that every policy the far left espouses is the perfect solution, true. But I'm on board with probably 90% of what the rest of the posters here support. I'm just willing to accept that with some of the left's goals it's probably going to take a series of steps to get there.
When I talk about identity politics I'm taking about Democratic voters in general. Hell, there were a bunch of candidates at the debates taking about letting a younger generation lead.
Remember always, if your minds right, be a hustla and not a consumer. They don't owe any of us shit, especially if they haven't deeply espoused values worth backing -- so just keep that as a mindset as we have to also push people in areas to vote with us. We can't expect their votes without having real discussions, because I know they are tired of being "hoes" and consumers. That's what Trump is about, and is the missing puzzle piece in our talks about this. They are OUR representatives and also politics is politics, and may have an element of self-interest and psychopathic peoples that we can't control. But the point of our open discussions and our Constitution is constant amendment. We should take it as a sign when nothing has been amended in almost 3 generations, that's why the call for revolution Bernie started is proper. And why the people who are angry about it, but know Warren/Harris will win easily -- pisses me the fuck off. We need a great candidate, and not one orchestrated by the politics of visuals or all hope is lost. And I mean the hope of the most engaged will be lost and we will lose even more time on this Earth in constant rotation. That's why are wars and consumer interests are coming into open question and now it looks like time is either up or we are going to lose to a cult leader. I don't know how else to have a healthy discussion about it than fight it out, until we see who really has beliefs and not just platitudes.
He was the only one to bring up the war in Yemen, he stayed on message, he stayed above the fray, and everyone else is chasing him on policy.
I feel like you're the first person that got that impression. Don't get me wrong, I think he did fine but I don't think he did anything to pick up any support.
Maybe I'm wrong. Polling should start coming out in a few days. I expect Harris, Warren, Booker, Buttigieg and Gabbard to pick up a few points.
Harris raised $2 million in the 24 hours after the debate, so yeah, she's gotta bump up a couple points soon.
Ok guys. I mean you are both correct, but now you are just being mad over a 4 point slide in either direction. And that's dumb right now. Either way you've both proven Sanders has still a lead in some polls, which seem scattered as fuck depending on methodology currently. Also both proved in some form that Harris and Warren are doing really well.. what have we learned? Only the debates, mattered and that other than playing the margins this is all bullshit until Ohio.
Post by piggy pablo on Jun 29, 2019 19:58:23 GMT -5
It's just a lot of skirting around the margins. I think Bernie did well in the debates. It would be hard for him to increase his rep substantially, as he and his policies are already super popular.