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someone on instagram today told me i was too woke to function b/c i said people should not support r kelly any more after he rap*d a bunch of kids. i always get so confused if woke means letting people do nothing or letting them do everything?? LOL
Woke is a brutalized word. And it's being fashioned by right wingers to socially engineer an anti-awareness movement. It's a foundation of conservatism to co-op terms to use against people trying to progress. At this point woke "means" nothing unless you are actually woke in your ideals and understanding.. plus
"The phrase "stay woke" began within the everyday language of some African Americans in the 1930s, because in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) woke is instead of woken, the usual past participle form of wake.[1]"
Just read that Rammstein thread, what a fucking horrifying man and situation. Can only imagine how long it’s been going on too. Till can get absolutely fucked if it turns out to be true
Post by xfinitypass on Jun 11, 2023 10:10:41 GMT -5
I’m bored today, so I’m going to stir the pot in here. Is anyone else left wing, but can’t stand the idea of cancel culture? I feel like it’s antithetical to a lot of key progressive ideas, particularly reformative justice. How can we on one hand say that even murderers deserve a second chance in society through prisons that teach rather than purely punish, then on the other hand try and destroy peoples entire livelihoods for their biggest mistake? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not with the right wing approach of apathy, victim blaming, or pretending many of these things people get accursed of aren’t even issues, but there’s got to be a middle ground between that and trying to torch someone’s life to the ground. Maybe I just have a unique perspective as someone with OCD who sometimes has a topic of fear of getting cancelled that tends to make me more risk averse in my social life, but it just feels like a very regressive idea to me.
I’m bored today, so I’m going to stir the pot in here. Is anyone else left wing, but can’t stand the idea of cancel culture? I feel like it’s antithetical to a lot of key progressive ideas, particularly reformative justice. How can we on one hand say that even murderers deserve a second chance in society through prisons that teach rather than purely punish, then on the other hand try and destroy peoples entire livelihoods for their biggest mistake? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not with the right wing approach of apathy, victim blaming, or pretending many of these things people get accursed of aren’t even issues, but there’s got to be a middle ground between that and trying to torch someone’s life to the ground. Maybe I just have a unique perspective as someone with OCD who sometimes has a topic of fear of getting cancelled that tends to make me more risk averse in my social life, but it just feels like a very regressive idea to me.
Absolutely. Obviously, some of these situations are explicitly terrible and those involved should be in prison or shunned from public influence. But I think a huge portion of cancel culture lies in a very murky grey area where context can get lost.
I’m bored today, so I’m going to stir the pot in here. Is anyone else left wing, but can’t stand the idea of cancel culture? I feel like it’s antithetical to a lot of key progressive ideas, particularly reformative justice. How can we on one hand say that even murderers deserve a second chance in society through prisons that teach rather than purely punish, then on the other hand try and destroy peoples entire livelihoods for their biggest mistake? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not with the right wing approach of apathy, victim blaming, or pretending many of these things people get accursed of aren’t even issues, but there’s got to be a middle ground between that and trying to torch someone’s life to the ground. Maybe I just have a unique perspective as someone with OCD who sometimes has a topic of fear of getting cancelled that tends to make me more risk averse in my social life, but it just feels like a very regressive idea to me.
How do you define “cancel culture”, and who do you believe has actually been canceled?
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I’m bored today, so I’m going to stir the pot in here. Is anyone else left wing, but can’t stand the idea of cancel culture? I feel like it’s antithetical to a lot of key progressive ideas, particularly reformative justice. How can we on one hand say that even murderers deserve a second chance in society through prisons that teach rather than purely punish, then on the other hand try and destroy peoples entire livelihoods for their biggest mistake? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not with the right wing approach of apathy, victim blaming, or pretending many of these things people get accursed of aren’t even issues, but there’s got to be a middle ground between that and trying to torch someone’s life to the ground. Maybe I just have a unique perspective as someone with OCD who sometimes has a topic of fear of getting cancelled that tends to make me more risk averse in my social life, but it just feels like a very regressive idea to me.
I did and said a lot of stupid shit when I was younger. I was an asshole back in the late aughts. A lot of anger, depression, ignorance, trying to bully others as a response for being bullied myself.
I feel like (most) people have the ability to grow, realize they've made mistakes, and should be given an opportunity to redeem themselves.
I’m bored today, so I’m going to stir the pot in here. Is anyone else left wing, but can’t stand the idea of cancel culture? I feel like it’s antithetical to a lot of key progressive ideas, particularly reformative justice. How can we on one hand say that even murderers deserve a second chance in society through prisons that teach rather than purely punish, then on the other hand try and destroy peoples entire livelihoods for their biggest mistake? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not with the right wing approach of apathy, victim blaming, or pretending many of these things people get accursed of aren’t even issues, but there’s got to be a middle ground between that and trying to torch someone’s life to the ground. Maybe I just have a unique perspective as someone with OCD who sometimes has a topic of fear of getting cancelled that tends to make me more risk averse in my social life, but it just feels like a very regressive idea to me.
I did and said a lot of stupid shit when I was younger. I was an asshole back in the late aughts. A lot of anger, depression, ignorance, trying to bully others as a response for being bullied myself.
I feel like (most) people have the ability to grow, realize they've made mistakes, and should be given an opportunity to redeem themselves.
Agreed. The problem is that so few have any genuine sincerity in growing. The only person that comes to mind who really seems to have taken shit to heart is Dan Harmon (I think, might be misremembering, please don't cancel me). I think the nature of the offense matters too - R. Kelly and Danny Masterson and the like should absolutely be in jail and have no chance at redemption. But if you said some offensive shit twenty years ago as a "joke" and now it's coming back to bite you...eh if you show genuine remorse I can probably look past it depending on what it was. Like Eminem (like a lot of hiphop) was unapologetically and blatantly homophobic when he was getting big, and then fast forward 15 years and he's got a cameo in The Interview where he comes out as gay and he's the one at the butt of the joke. He's obviously grown and while I tend to skip his more offensive older stuff and would certainly be against any artist putting out music like that today, Eminem himself doesn't bother me or need to be canceled for it (not that anyone's trying).
I did and said a lot of stupid shit when I was younger. I was an asshole back in the late aughts. A lot of anger, depression, ignorance, trying to bully others as a response for being bullied myself.
I feel like (most) people have the ability to grow, realize they've made mistakes, and should be given an opportunity to redeem themselves.
Agreed. The problem is that so few have any genuine sincerity in growing. The only person that comes to mind who really seems to have taken shit to heart is Dan Harmon (I think, might be misremembering, please don't cancel me). I think the nature of the offense matters too - R. Kelly and Danny Masterson and the like should absolutely be in jail and have no chance at redemption. But if you said some offensive shit twenty years ago as a "joke" and now it's coming back to bite you...eh if you show genuine remorse I can probably look past it depending on what it was. Like Eminem (like a lot of hiphop) was unapologetically and blatantly homophobic when he was getting big, and then fast forward 15 years and he's got a cameo in The Interview where he comes out as gay and he's the one at the butt of the joke. He's obviously grown and while I tend to skip his more offensive older stuff and would certainly be against any artist putting out music like that today, Eminem himself doesn't bother me or need to be canceled for it (not that anyone's trying).
i agree with this take the most. rapists and pedos deserve zero redemption but if you say some stupid bullshit and genuinely apologize and grow as a person (Like Tyler the Creator), i think thats ok. I also think that if someone is actively supporting or engaging in racism/transphobia/etc then they should face consequences for it
I’m bored today, so I’m going to stir the pot in here. Is anyone else left wing, but can’t stand the idea of cancel culture? I feel like it’s antithetical to a lot of key progressive ideas, particularly reformative justice. How can we on one hand say that even murderers deserve a second chance in society through prisons that teach rather than purely punish, then on the other hand try and destroy peoples entire livelihoods for their biggest mistake? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not with the right wing approach of apathy, victim blaming, or pretending many of these things people get accursed of aren’t even issues, but there’s got to be a middle ground between that and trying to torch someone’s life to the ground. Maybe I just have a unique perspective as someone with OCD who sometimes has a topic of fear of getting cancelled that tends to make me more risk averse in my social life, but it just feels like a very regressive idea to me.
How do you define “cancel culture”, and who do you believe has actually been canceled?
I guess it’s more of an abstract discussion I’m trying to have about what the goals of cancel culture should be rather than a discussion about what it is. In practice, it ends up working out kinda how I’d like it, I think that the intent some (mostly the chronically online sort) go into these “cancellations” with aren’t right. I’d rather have it be called “accountability culture”, because then there’s some room for growth compared to the rather close ended cancellation. Like when people tried to end Aziz Ansari or Evans Stephens Hall (Pinegrove singer) over the things that they did that were clearly shitty, but also clearly fell under an umbrella of things that someone can learn and come back a better person from. And I’m aware they both did that get that opportunity, but I’m more discussing the people out there (and they do exist) that wouldn’t have wanted them to have that second opportunity.
How do you define “cancel culture”, and who do you believe has actually been canceled?
I guess it’s more of an abstract discussion I’m trying to have about what the goals of cancel culture should be rather than a discussion about what it is. In practice, it ends up working out kinda how I’d like it, I think that the intent some (mostly the chronically online sort) go into these “cancellations” with aren’t right. I’d rather have it be called “accountability culture”, because then there’s some room for growth compared to the rather close ended cancellation. Like when people tried to end Aziz Ansari or Evans Stephens Hall (Pinegrove singer) over the things that they did that were clearly shitty, but also clearly fell under an umbrella of things that someone can learn and come back a better person from. And I’m aware they both did that get that opportunity, but I’m more discussing the people out there (and they do exist) that wouldn’t have wanted them to have that second opportunity.
Doesn't your position here assume that it was labeled "cancel culture" by people in good faith? I guess I don't know for sure but my knowledge is that "cancel culture" became a thing to rail about from the right wing. Your proposed label of "accountability culture" would be much more accurate but that ignores that it either was invented or coopted by the right wing to become another thing in the culture wars that they can fire people up over.
Agreed. The problem is that so few have any genuine sincerity in growing. The only person that comes to mind who really seems to have taken shit to heart is Dan Harmon (I think, might be misremembering, please don't cancel me). I think the nature of the offense matters too - R. Kelly and Danny Masterson and the like should absolutely be in jail and have no chance at redemption. But if you said some offensive shit twenty years ago as a "joke" and now it's coming back to bite you...eh if you show genuine remorse I can probably look past it depending on what it was. Like Eminem (like a lot of hiphop) was unapologetically and blatantly homophobic when he was getting big, and then fast forward 15 years and he's got a cameo in The Interview where he comes out as gay and he's the one at the butt of the joke. He's obviously grown and while I tend to skip his more offensive older stuff and would certainly be against any artist putting out music like that today, Eminem himself doesn't bother me or need to be canceled for it (not that anyone's trying).
i agree with this take the most. rapists and pedos deserve zero redemption but if you say some stupid bullshit and genuinely apologize and grow as a person (Like Tyler the Creator), i think thats ok. I also think that if someone is actively supporting or engaging in racism/transphobia/etc then they should face consequences for it
disagree to an extent. Obviously those are heinous crimes that merit severe punishment, but if we’re going to say someone who did xyz is irredeemable, we might as well just give the death penalty for all those crimes. No point in existing if you don’t have a chance at redemption. I think it’s just a more progressive mindset to believe in the possibility of growth and having empathy even for the worst of criminals. I think creating a society that empathizes even with the worst of people would end up being a lot more safe and free of that sort of behavior in the long run.
I’m also literally reading a book on self esteem and on the compassion chapter as I write this, so that might be influencing my position.
I guess it’s more of an abstract discussion I’m trying to have about what the goals of cancel culture should be rather than a discussion about what it is. In practice, it ends up working out kinda how I’d like it, I think that the intent some (mostly the chronically online sort) go into these “cancellations” with aren’t right. I’d rather have it be called “accountability culture”, because then there’s some room for growth compared to the rather close ended cancellation. Like when people tried to end Aziz Ansari or Evans Stephens Hall (Pinegrove singer) over the things that they did that were clearly shitty, but also clearly fell under an umbrella of things that someone can learn and come back a better person from. And I’m aware they both did that get that opportunity, but I’m more discussing the people out there (and they do exist) that wouldn’t have wanted them to have that second opportunity.
Doesn't your position here assume that it was labeled "cancel culture" by people in good faith? I guess I don't know for sure but my knowledge is that "cancel culture" became a thing to rail about from the right wing. Your proposed label of "accountability culture" would be much more accurate but that ignores that it either was invented or coopted by the right wing to become another thing in the culture wars that they can fire people up over.
yeah that is true. I’m definitely aware there are plenty of people with a more moderate take on things and the right wing media likes to hyperbolize it to fear monger, but there are definitely a lot of people (particularly online) who do believe in the idea of a more strict sort of cancellation
i agree with this take the most. rapists and pedos deserve zero redemption but if you say some stupid bullshit and genuinely apologize and grow as a person (Like Tyler the Creator), i think thats ok. I also think that if someone is actively supporting or engaging in racism/transphobia/etc then they should face consequences for it
disagree to an extent. Obviously those are heinous crimes that merit severe punishment, but if we’re going to say someone who did xyz is irredeemable, we might as well just give the death penalty for all those crimes. No point in existing if you don’t have a chance at redemption. I think it’s just a more progressive mindset to believe in the possibility of growth and having empathy even for the worst of criminals. I think creating a society that empathizes even with the worst of people would end up being a lot more safe and free of that sort of behavior in the long run.
I’m also literally reading a book on self esteem and on the compassion chapter as I write this, so that might be influencing my position.
tbh i actually do think rapists should face the death penalty or at least physical or chemical castration but i’m aware thats not a popular opinion. seeing the direct and permanent impact it causes to people close to me who have been raped or sexually assaulted and the acquittal and lack of consequences their assailants faced is what led me to having this position. so i’m aware that i’m biased but i have a strong moral conviction on this.
I think its much easier to humanize rapists and want to believe in their redemption when you havent seen or felt the direct impact of the harm they cause
Last Edit: Jun 11, 2023 13:49:57 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
i agree with this take the most. rapists and pedos deserve zero redemption but if you say some stupid bullshit and genuinely apologize and grow as a person (Like Tyler the Creator), i think thats ok. I also think that if someone is actively supporting or engaging in racism/transphobia/etc then they should face consequences for it
disagree to an extent. Obviously those are heinous crimes that merit severe punishment, but if we’re going to say someone who did xyz is irredeemable, we might as well just give the death penalty for all those crimes. No point in existing if you don’t have a chance at redemption. I think it’s just a more progressive mindset to believe in the possibility of growth and having empathy even for the worst of criminals. I think creating a society that empathizes even with the worst of people would end up being a lot more safe and free of that sort of behavior in the long run.
I’m also literally reading a book on self esteem and on the compassion chapter as I write this, so that might be influencing my position.
This is my take on things too.
I was SA'ed and for a while I really... really wanted to hurt her. But after some therapy and reflection ultimately I realized I was just processing things in a terrible way and led to bad behavior from me also. I look back at them and while I hate what happened, I don't want to hurt them anymore and can even accept she is capable of change and worthy of live from someone else.
That being said there is extreme cases tho where I do think the death penalty applies but in extremely .... extremely rare conditions
Cancel culture doesn't truly exist. The people who are targeted who didn't do a "jail"-worthy crime sell out stadiums. The idea this thread is more than an alarm, to those who don't want to support someone who did a crime/sexually-related act is, asking too much. None of these folks ever get truly get cancelled. They have fucking golden parachutes from work and from personal wealth or connections to the next stop.
I hate, as a [redated] person, that they keep stealing our terms and applying it backwards. R. Kelly should be cancelled - Tyler and Em have explained why they said their words. And they were words not actions.
People who deserve to be truly cancelled, do violent crimes and most often get away with it. R. Kelly got away with it for maybe 20 years. We knew. We still listened to "Ignition" as if we didn't know what was going on. We made a (maybe) bad choice at the time supporting him and continual pain he was inflicting. We also let too many things just go, and now we have this term. The term means nothing in relation with the access to power and monetary balance.
disagree to an extent. Obviously those are heinous crimes that merit severe punishment, but if we’re going to say someone who did xyz is irredeemable, we might as well just give the death penalty for all those crimes. No point in existing if you don’t have a chance at redemption. I think it’s just a more progressive mindset to believe in the possibility of growth and having empathy even for the worst of criminals. I think creating a society that empathizes even with the worst of people would end up being a lot more safe and free of that sort of behavior in the long run.
I’m also literally reading a book on self esteem and on the compassion chapter as I write this, so that might be influencing my position.
tbh i actually do think rapists should face the death penalty or at least physical or chemical castration but i’m aware thats not a popular opinion. seeing the direct and permanent impact it causes to people close to me who have been raped or sexually assaulted and the acquittal and lack of consequences their assailants faced is what led me to having this position. so i’m aware that i’m biased but i have a strong moral conviction on this.
I think its much easier to humanize rapists and want to believe in their redemption when you havent seen or felt the direct impact of the harm they cause
I’m on the opposite end here where I don’t even think mass murderers should get the death penalty.
I think its much easier to humanize rapists and want to believe in their redemption when you havent seen or felt the direct impact of the harm they cause
I think basically any adult human has dealt with this scenario and most probably still believe that rape shouldn't be punishable by death.
Post by kingvamp999wrld on Jun 11, 2023 15:22:55 GMT -5
Cancel couture is such a stupied term. Wtf does it even mean. I know people who are in prison and certainly wouldn't say they canceled lol they just in prison.
R Kelly ain't canceled, I still hear his music at family bbqs all the time. I ain't like he's music is banned from every site.
Cancel culture doesn't truly exist. The people who are targeted who didn't do a "jail"-worthy crime sell out stadiums. The idea this thread is more than an alarm, to those who don't want to support someone who did a crime/sexually-related act is, asking too much. None of these folks ever get truly get cancelled. They have fucking golden parachutes from work and from personal wealth or connections to the next stop.
I hate, as a [redated] person, that they keep stealing our terms and applying it backwards. R. Kelly should be cancelled - Tyler and Em have explained why they said their words. And they were words not actions.
People who deserve to be truly cancelled, do violent crimes and most often get away with it. R. Kelly got away with it for maybe 20 years. We knew. We still listened to "Ignition" as if we didn't know what was going on. We made a (maybe) bad choice at the time supporting him and continual pain he was inflicting. We also let too many things just go, and now we have this term. The term means nothing in relation with the access to power and monetary balance.
I think it's unfair to blame the masses when in reality it's the justice system, corporations and billionaires who enable these evil people.
Like I mentioned, my grandparents love R Kelly and most 90s rnb and still play his music at bbqs. I don't really think that makes them bad people nor they are not enabling him more than people who have real power.
agree to disagree. at the very least i think if someone is found guilty of rape there should be mandatory chemical or physical castration. It is extremely difficult and rare for someone to even be convincted of this crime so if there is enough overwhelming evidence for them to be convicted than the penalties should be very harsh
agree to disagree. at the very least i think if someone is found guilty of rape there should be mandatory chemical or physical castration. It is extremely difficult and rare for someone to even be convincted of this crime so if there is enough overwhelming evidence for them to be convicted than the penalties should be very harsh
luckily no one has ever been convicted for a crime they didn’t commit
