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All i’m sayin is, if every state had Vax mandates for restaurants, we’d effectively end Covid in the US. Republican Boomers hate being told what to do but they like being served a lot more
this is far from true. essentially everyone in LA, NYC, DC are vaccinated and COVID is not over in those places. its here to stay
As much as 73% fully vaccinated in NYC seems like a win.. the disproportionate levels in the Bronx and Brooklyn should not be missed. I'm using usafacts.org - so I would need to go deeper into the NYC DOH website to get the exact percentages but Manhattan has the clear highest vaccine rate with Queens right behind it. Ignoring that 27 percent and then a larger group of only one dosers who constantly go back and forth across the city - is a problem
data specific to my zip code:
We have a fucking problem
Last Edit: Jan 27, 2022 10:57:34 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
3post1jack1
Which Ditch Bridge Troll Wannabe God-King of the Cone
its just mindboggling that this all could have been avoided if most countries had enforced lockdowns for two weeks in the beginning
Yeah it's really traumatic thinking of how many lives could easily have been saved. Just Trump throwing his logo on a bunch of masks would've probably saved over 100,000 lives. Lives continue to be lost because of poor vaccine uptake. Frustrating time to live.
the funny thing is Trump thought he was acting in his own self interest, but if he could've approached covid with a modicum of seriousness imo he would've breezed to re-election.
There's still one thing I wonder about and have been trying to read up more on. I think there's some evidence to support the notion that minor exposure to the virus or a variant itself can help boost your immune system. I can only offer my own anecdotal evidence and guess, but I think the passing exposure I've had to many over the last six to nine months has helped me and the wife in some respects. I'd never say that only that is enough, but I think in addition to a lot of immune boosting vitamins and two OG shots and the booster, it's made a big difference. I wouldn't really recommend that unless there was some real peer reviewed science to back it up though.
Maybe keep thoughts like this to yourself. Best case people think you're ignorant, worst case you inadvertently spread misinformation.
Post by jorgeandthekraken on Jan 27, 2022 11:06:38 GMT -5
One thing to note for people calling this endemic: It's not, yet. It will be, but what's happening now anywhere in the world does not fit the scientific definition of endemicity, I'm very sorry to say.
There's still one thing I wonder about and have been trying to read up more on. I think there's some evidence to support the notion that minor exposure to the virus or a variant itself can help boost your immune system. I can only offer my own anecdotal evidence and guess, but I think the passing exposure I've had to many over the last six to nine months has helped me and the wife in some respects. I'd never say that only that is enough, but I think in addition to a lot of immune boosting vitamins and two OG shots and the booster, it's made a big difference. I wouldn't really recommend that unless there was some real peer reviewed science to back it up though.
Maybe keep thoughts like this to yourself. Best case people think you're ignorant, worst case you inadvertently spread misinformation.
As I said, I most likely wouldn't actually suggest that unless there was peer reviewed publications to back it up. It's merely something that's been on my mind I'm trying to understand better.
Also, I wonder about what truly defines an endemic. Isn't it already if it's destined to be in the future anyways?
Maybe keep thoughts like this to yourself. Best case people think you're ignorant, worst case you inadvertently spread misinformation.
As I said, I most likely wouldn't actually suggest that unless there was peer reviewed publications to back it up. It's merely something that's been on my mind I'm trying to understand better.
Also, I wonder about what truly defines an endemic. Isn't it already if it's destined to be in the future anyways?
i think for covid endemic would mean that the virus is still regularly found, but it's no longer causing mass hospitalizations. we're still at the phase with mass hospitalizations, primarily amongst the non-vaccinated.
Maybe keep thoughts like this to yourself. Best case people think you're ignorant, worst case you inadvertently spread misinformation.
As I said, I most likely wouldn't actually suggest that unless there was peer reviewed publications to back it up. It's merely something that's been on my mind I'm trying to understand better.
Also, I wonder about what truly defines an endemic. Isn't it already if it's destined to be in the future anyways?
Post by jorgeandthekraken on Jan 27, 2022 11:23:31 GMT -5
Also, I find the insistence I've seen here and elsewhere that "there has to be an off-ramp" interesting. Like...does there? Did people stop using condoms because they were just tired of worrying about HIV? We're going to have to live with this virus. At some point, medicine may advance such that we don't have to worry about it in the slightest, but it's going to be a while. I think if you're holding your breath for a time when we're going live exactly like we did pre-2020, a readjustment of expectations might be in order.
As I said, I most likely wouldn't actually suggest that unless there was peer reviewed publications to back it up. It's merely something that's been on my mind I'm trying to understand better.
Also, I wonder about what truly defines an endemic. Isn't it already if it's destined to be in the future anyways?
i think for covid endemic would mean that the virus is still regularly found, but it's no longer causing mass hospitalizations. we're still at the phase with mass hospitalizations, primarily amongst the non-vaccinated.
Very good point, you're right. I think it's pretty clear the situation would be drastically different if the vax rates were higher.
As I said, I most likely wouldn't actually suggest that unless there was peer reviewed publications to back it up. It's merely something that's been on my mind I'm trying to understand better.
Also, I wonder about what truly defines an endemic. Isn't it already if it's destined to be in the future anyways?
This is all very true, there's no one size fits all option since everyone has different factors involved. It's certainly not like chicken pox parties and such. And when we're still at the peak of a spike in many states, it's certainly not a great idea to even pose any marginal risk to bring those numbers up.
As I said, I most likely wouldn't actually suggest that unless there was peer reviewed publications to back it up. It's merely something that's been on my mind I'm trying to understand better.
Also, I wonder about what truly defines an endemic. Isn't it already if it's destined to be in the future anyways?
i think for covid endemic would mean that the virus is still regularly found, but it's no longer causing mass hospitalizations. we're still at the phase with mass hospitalizations, primarily amongst the non-vaccinated.
I feel a distinction between the non-vaxxed and vaxxed is everything. As Biden said last year, it's a "pandemic of the unvaccinated."
Also, I find the insistence I've seen here and elsewhere that "there has to be an off-ramp" interesting. Like...does there? Did people stop using condoms because they were just tired of worrying about HIV? We're going to have to live with this virus. At some point, medicine may advance such that we don't have to worry about it in the slightest, but it's going to be a while. I think if you're holding your breath for a time when we're going live exactly like we did pre-2020, a readjustment of expectations might be in order.
the off ramp i'm looking for is some semblance of consistency in public policy so while covid is always something we're reacting to, our conversations aren't as focused on chaotic things we can't really control. Vax requirement for restaurants and bars in mpls got instituted at the peak of omicron, there should be parameters of hospitalizations, infections, death that guide these changes so people aren't as stressed due to the constant change around them.
When Biden said that last year, he was right. But now things have changed, Omicron has a comparably higher percentage of breakthrough cases than past flavors did. Boosters change those numbers up a bit, but unvaccinated cases and breakthrough cases aren't exactly the smoking and non-smoking sections anymore.
I think there was this fantasy for a few months that things would move on and return to normal for the vaccinated, and the unvaccinated could just keep doing their thing until they found themselves in a meeting with Darwin. But further data is showing that isn't so clean cut.
Also, I find the insistence I've seen here and elsewhere that "there has to be an off-ramp" interesting. Like...does there? Did people stop using condoms because they were just tired of worrying about HIV? We're going to have to live with this virus. At some point, medicine may advance such that we don't have to worry about it in the slightest, but it's going to be a while. I think if you're holding your breath for a time when we're going live exactly like we did pre-2020, a readjustment of expectations might be in order.
the off ramp i'm looking for is some semblance of consistency in public policy so while covid is always something we're reacting to, our conversations aren't as focused on chaotic things we can't really control. Vax requirement for restaurants and bars in mpls got instituted at the peak of omicron, there should be parameters of hospitalizations, infections, death that guide these changes so people aren't as stressed due to the constant change around them.
I agree, policy could be better implemented, although that requires buy-in from the populace. When you can't even get agreement from the citizenry as to whether anything should be done at all and you have a not-insignificant number of them - and the officials they choose to represent them - denying there's a problem at all, how are you supposed to shape policy?
Also, it could be that constant change is the norm, now. To paraphrase Marlo in The Wire: We want things to be one way, but maybe it's the other way. If so, we have to learn to live with that rather than just insisting it's going to be the way we want it to be because reasons.
Again, I am not suggesting that. I'm just saying I'm interested in reading more study from people who know better than me, none of which are even on a forum about live music.
Also, I find the insistence I've seen here and elsewhere that "there has to be an off-ramp" interesting. Like...does there? Did people stop using condoms because they were just tired of worrying about HIV? We're going to have to live with this virus. At some point, medicine may advance such that we don't have to worry about it in the slightest, but it's going to be a while. I think if you're holding your breath for a time when we're going live exactly like we did pre-2020, a readjustment of expectations might be in order.
Because living a life of isolation is extremely depressing and unfulfilling and people want something better for themselves? Not getting to make friends, date, travel, go to shows, play sports, etc for the majority of 23 months isn't how I want to live my life, so it's fair to ask when I won't have to live like that again. Life eventually returned to normal after the 1917 influenza pandemic, and it likely will after Covid. Pre-delta, and then post-delta but pre-Omicron, hospitalizations were extremely low. Even now, hospitalizations of the vaxxed remain extremely low. It's seems logical to think that once Omicron starts to fade, that living life like it's normal again is possible, at least in the absence of another variant. The risk to a vaxxed person is incredibly low, the primary issue right now is hospital capacity being low due to selfish antivaxxers getting sick to Omicron. Once there isn't a surging variant causing that problem, allowing people at least the option to return to nromal seems fair, a reasonable light at the end of the tunnel, one that's only taken away again when there's cause (such as a variant like Omicron causing a surge). I could see restrictions coming and going with surges, but they just aren't necessary in times where it isn't surging, and surges get less and less likely with every person who gets vaccinated and/or catches it. Variants can also slowly become weaker, as Omicron is, as happened to the Spanish Influenza. I don't think it's a unrealistic at all to suggest life will go back to normal once the pandemic phase is over... that's what happened in every other airborne pandemic in history.
Also, I find the insistence I've seen here and elsewhere that "there has to be an off-ramp" interesting. Like...does there? Did people stop using condoms because they were just tired of worrying about HIV? We're going to have to live with this virus. At some point, medicine may advance such that we don't have to worry about it in the slightest, but it's going to be a while. I think if you're holding your breath for a time when we're going live exactly like we did pre-2020, a readjustment of expectations might be in order.
Because living a life of isolation is extremely depressing and unfulfilling and people want something better for themselves? Not getting to make friends, date, travel, go to shows, play sports, etc for the majority of 23 months isn't how I want to live my life, so it's fair to ask when I won't have to live like that again.
This. You've got to weigh physical health and mental health on the same plane sometimes.
When Biden said that last year, he was right. But now things have changed, Omicron has a comparably higher percentage of breakthrough cases than past flavors did. Boosters change those numbers up a bit, but unvaccinated cases and breakthrough cases aren't exactly the smoking and non-smoking sections anymore.
I think there was this fantasy for a few months that things would move on and return to normal for the vaccinated, and the unvaccinated could just keep doing their thing until they found themselves in a meeting with Darwin. But further data is showing that isn't so clean cut.
It has more breakthrough "cases" but breakthrough hospitalizations remain very low, and deaths (the most important thing to prevent), even lower. I think people are underestimating just how protected they are with these vaccines, they are a work of art.
Because living a life of isolation is extremely depressing and unfulfilling and people want something better for themselves? Not getting to make friends, date, travel, go to shows, play sports, etc for the majority of 23 months isn't how I want to live my life, so it's fair to ask when I won't have to live like that again.
This. You've got to weigh physical health and mental health on the same plane sometimes.
Exactly. As a vaccinated person, I've come to genuinely believe my mental health and obesity (both made hard to fix by isolation) are bigger threats to my health than Covid. I feel like the data backs that up.
Because living a life of isolation is extremely depressing and unfulfilling and people want something better for themselves? Not getting to make friends, date, travel, go to shows, play sports, etc for the majority of 23 months isn't how I want to live my life, so it's fair to ask when I won't have to live like that again.
This. You've got to weigh physical health and mental health on the same plane sometimes.
Sure. And I want to be clear that I'm not suggesting everyone isolate forever. But there's a pretty wide spectrum between that and just going back in every way to the way we lived before 2020. Maybe mask use becomes more widespread. Maybe there's going to be a period where going on a first date means you both do a rapid test that day before meeting in person, the same way folks who play casually these days sometimes want to see a clean bill of health STD-wise. I don't think anyone but the most extreme people are advocating for no human contact ever. But there are some things that just might be forever changed, is all I'm trying to say, and that I think we can still live fulfilling lives given those adjustments.
I've got a lot of concern for how this has a long term mental health effect on younger people. You can say that generations in prior viral outbreaks made it just fine, but every generation has different social structures and standards that affect them differently.
Gen Z has never known a time where they weren't hyper-connected to literally everyone, and before all this the digital component was just a springboard to in-person stuff. Now they had the rug of personal connections and much else ripped out from under them and even with much returning, it hasn't been the same ever since.
I've got a lot of concern for how this has a long term mental health effect on younger people. You can say that generations in prior viral outbreaks made it just fine, but every generation has different social structures and standards that affect them differently.
Gen Z has never known a time where they weren't hyper-connected to literally everyone, and before all this the digital component was just a springboard to in-person stuff. Now they had the rug of personal connections and much else ripped out from under them and even with much returning, it hasn't been the same ever since.
And that's all I'm really trying to point out here. There are other health risks than Covid that are exacerbated by Covid restrictions. In the pre vax age, and even during surges rn, I understand the need to take extreme mitigations. But in non surge times when we've got a vaccine, those other associated health risks begin to look like bigger threats than Covid. It's about balancing restrictions with their mental/physical health setbacks based on relative level of Covid risk due to a number of variables (case rate, hospital capacity, vax rate, etc). It's not so black and white.
Also, I find the insistence I've seen here and elsewhere that "there has to be an off-ramp" interesting. Like...does there? Did people stop using condoms because they were just tired of worrying about HIV? We're going to have to live with this virus. At some point, medicine may advance such that we don't have to worry about it in the slightest, but it's going to be a while. I think if you're holding your breath for a time when we're going live exactly like we did pre-2020, a readjustment of expectations might be in order.
Because living a life of isolation is extremely depressing and unfulfilling and people want something better for themselves? Not getting to make friends, date, travel, go to shows, play sports, etc for the majority of 23 months isn't how I want to live my life, so it's fair to ask when I won't have to live like that again. Life eventually returned to normal after the 1917 influenza pandemic, and it likely will after Covid. Pre-delta, and then post-delta but pre-Omicron, hospitalizations were extremely low. Even now, hospitalizations of the vaxxed remain extremely low. It's seems logical to think that once Omicron starts to fade, that living life like it's normal again is possible, at least in the absence of another variant. The risk to a vaxxed person is incredibly low, the primary issue right now is hospital capacity being low due to selfish antivaxxers getting sick to Omicron. Once there isn't a surging variant causing that problem, allowing people at least the option to return to nromal seems fair, a reasonable light at the end of the tunnel, one that's only taken away again when there's cause (such as a variant like Omicron causing a surge). I could see restrictions coming and going with surges, but they just aren't necessary in times where it isn't surging, and surges get less and less likely with every person who gets vaccinated and/or catches it. Variants can also slowly become weaker, as Omicron is, as happened to the Spanish Influenza. I don't think it's a unrealistic at all to suggest life will go back to normal once the pandemic phase is over... that's what happened in every other airborne pandemic in history.
I’m a little confused by your position, and I’m trying to figure out if it’s a regional thing or if it’s your own situation skewing your perspective. There’s middle ground between total lockdown and completely back to how things were pre-pandemic. Doing things like requiring school children to wear masks is a middle ground. Many people who want kids to have to wear masks in school seem to want that so that their children can go to school and have the interaction that they need to help with the mental health problems that arose from lack of socialization.
As far as living a normal life, we aren’t living in the mid-2020 everything is shut down, there’s nothing to do but sit home working puzzles world anymore. I live in the south, so maybe this is different for me, but literally everything is open here. Other than continuing to work from home (completely by choice because I prefer it, almost everyone else in my office is back there now), my life is only really different from before covid in that I wear a mask everywhere and almost never eat in restaurants. But I have the option to eat in restaurants. Some places require masks, most here don’t, but even if they all did, we’re not being stopped from going to them. We just have to have part of our faces covered when we get there. That doesn’t seem like a big restriction to me.
I guess what I’m asking is what is it exactly that you’re looking for as far as this return to normalcy?
I hate to tell you this but covid isn’t what’s stopping you from getting laid. I’m almost 40 and all my single friends who want to actively date, absolutely are. I am not exaggerating when I say they are having sex with like 3 different people in one week sometimes.
Also, I find the insistence I've seen here and elsewhere that "there has to be an off-ramp" interesting. Like...does there? Did people stop using condoms because they were just tired of worrying about HIV? We're going to have to live with this virus. At some point, medicine may advance such that we don't have to worry about it in the slightest, but it's going to be a while. I think if you're holding your breath for a time when we're going live exactly like we did pre-2020, a readjustment of expectations might be in order.
Because living a life of isolation is extremely depressing and unfulfilling and people want something better for themselves? Not getting to make friends, date, travel, go to shows, play sports, etc for the majority of 23 months isn't how I want to live my life, so it's fair to ask when I won't have to live like that again. Life eventually returned to normal after the 1917 influenza pandemic, and it likely will after Covid. Pre-delta, and then post-delta but pre-Omicron, hospitalizations were extremely low. Even now, hospitalizations of the vaxxed remain extremely low. It's seems logical to think that once Omicron starts to fade, that living life like it's normal again is possible, at least in the absence of another variant. The risk to a vaxxed person is incredibly low, the primary issue right now is hospital capacity being low due to selfish antivaxxers getting sick to Omicron. Once there isn't a surging variant causing that problem, allowing people at least the option to return to nromal seems fair, a reasonable light at the end of the tunnel, one that's only taken away again when there's cause (such as a variant like Omicron causing a surge). I could see restrictions coming and going with surges, but they just aren't necessary in times where it isn't surging, and surges get less and less likely with every person who gets vaccinated and/or catches it. Variants can also slowly become weaker, as Omicron is, as happened to the Spanish Influenza. I don't think it's a unrealistic at all to suggest life will go back to normal once the pandemic phase is over... that's what happened in every other airborne pandemic in history.
I think most people agree with a lot of your argument but you are acting like everyone is arguing for strict lockdowns when most people are just saying we should be a little cautious and wear masks when appropriate. No one is making you isolate. There are no lockdowns. You are making the decision to do so to protect your vulnerable loved ones which I find commendable. Don't you think we should take practical precautions to help protect other people's vulnerable loved ones as well?
I hate to tell you this but covid isn’t what’s stopping you from getting laid. I’m almost 40 and all my single friends who want to actively date, absolutely are. I am not exaggerating when I say they are having sex with like 3 different people in one week sometimes.
Exactly. Are there any states or major cities with any sort of restrictions right now on restaurants, bars, etc? If you really want you can go wild and it's been like that for a while now.
I've got a lot of concern for how this has a long term mental health effect on younger people. You can say that generations in prior viral outbreaks made it just fine, but every generation has different social structures and standards that affect them differently.
Gen Z has never known a time where they weren't hyper-connected to literally everyone, and before all this the digital component was just a springboard to in-person stuff. Now they had the rug of personal connections and much else ripped out from under them and even with much returning, it hasn't been the same ever since.
Right, I get this. But what I find interesting is that the conversation around this tends to culminate in “…so, we need things to go back to the way they were,” vs. “…so, we need to be providing the proper mental health care to help people adjust to a new reality.” Mindful acceptance of things we can’t control and finding ways to be happy in harmony with, or even in spite of, them is as much a part of the work as anything else.
