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Were you wanting Quinn? Looks like for us it will be out of Allen or Glenn unless they go left field.
Preference for me is firing McCarthy and Moore and promoting Quinn, as of right now. Would hurt to lose Quinn. He turned a horrid defense into the strength of the team.
Someone sent me this:
ProFootballTalk’s Mike Florio has a book releasing soon called Playmakers, and in the aftermath of the Payton news, he decided to share an excerpt from it where he notes that the Cowboys were set to trade for Payton in early 2019 until Anthony Davis asked to be traded away from the New Orleans Pelicans. Yes. You read all of those words correctly.
Maybe? I would understand Mrs. Benson’s position on that (still fuck you AD and Rich Paul). Seems like a maybe but it also would be interesting if it was corroborated. It’s not that I don’t trust Florio but he’s put out bogus shit on us over the years.
Preference for me is firing McCarthy and Moore and promoting Quinn, as of right now. Would hurt to lose Quinn. He turned a horrid defense into the strength of the team.
Maybe? I would understand Mrs. Benson’s position on that (still fuck you AD and Rich Paul). Seems like a maybe but it also would be interesting if it was corroborated. It’s not that I don’t trust Florio but he’s put out bogus shit on us over the years.
Yeah, but it's Florio. That's what I'm saying. He and Payton have a negative history. It doesn't mean there's not something to it. SI is reporting on the story to saying "...at least according to Florio.." We know the old where there's smoke there's fire. We also know that Jerry's wanted Sean for a long time. So it's possible. But I'm not taking it as Gospel unless it is later corroborated by someone on the inside of the deal.
My local sports talk just said it’s a rebuild in New Orleans.
lol
Information seems like a merry-go-round these days. The cap is no issue here other than we'll lose some vets like we do every year. Brees' dead money ($11.5MM) goes away after 2022, so there is some dead cap space. Here are the free agents this year.
Terron Armstead (all-pro LT was hurt just about all year) Marcus Williams (Safety, we'll probably re-sign him) Jameis Winston (QB, possibly will sign him to a mid-term deal) P.J. Williams (CB3, probably will let him walk though I love me some PJ) Tre'Quan Smith (WR3, probably will let him walk unless we get a cheap 2 or 3 year deal) Kwon Alexander (LB - probably the biggest loss, but he'll make bank in free agency) Dwayne Washington (RB - is a 3/4 RB and was out most of the year tallying 16 yards on 4 carries) Ty Montgomery (RB converted from WR - let him walk) Jeff Heath (backup Saftey - had 10 tackles this year)
Does this really look like a rebuild to you? Might want to change that channel.
My local sports talk just said it’s a rebuild in New Orleans.
lol
Information seems like a merry-go-round these days. The cap is no issue here other than we'll lose some vets like we do every year. Brees' dead money (or most of it) goes away after 2022, so there is some dead cap space. Here are the free agents this year.
Terron Armstead (all-pro LT was hurt just about all year) Marcus Williams (Safety, we'll probably re-sign him) Jameis Winston (QB, possibly will sign him to a mid-term deal) P.J. Williams (CB3, probably will let him walk though I love me some PJ) Tre'Quan Smith (WR3, probably will let him walk unless we get a cheap 2 or 3 year deal) Kwon Alexander (LB - probably the biggest loss, but he'll make bank in free agency) Dwayne Washington (RB - is a 3/4 RB and was out most of the year tallying 16 yards on 4 carries) Ty Montgomery (RB converted from WR - let him walk) Jeff Heath (backup Saftey - had 10 tackles this year)
Does this really look like a rebuild to you? Might want to change that channel.
Do you have the math on their cap situation (or like an article about it)? I’m bad with understanding cap stuff so I just see like 70M over cap and assume it’s gonna be a bloodbath
My local sports talk just said it’s a rebuild in New Orleans.
lol
Information seems like a merry-go-round these days. The cap is no issue here other than we'll lose some vets like we do every year. Brees' dead money ($11.5MM) goes away after 2022, so there is some dead cap space. Here are the free agents this year.
Terron Armstead (all-pro LT was hurt just about all year) Marcus Williams (Safety, we'll probably re-sign him) Jameis Winston (QB, possibly will sign him to a mid-term deal) P.J. Williams (CB3, probably will let him walk though I love me some PJ) Tre'Quan Smith (WR3, probably will let him walk unless we get a cheap 2 or 3 year deal) Kwon Alexander (LB - probably the biggest loss, but he'll make bank in free agency) Dwayne Washington (RB - is a 3/4 RB and was out most of the year tallying 16 yards on 4 carries) Ty Montgomery (RB converted from WR - let him walk) Jeff Heath (backup Saftey - had 10 tackles this year)
Does this really look like a rebuild to you? Might want to change that channel.
I think the main issue is qb. You’ve had Brees and now you have no idea what you have. You can’t count on Jameis. You can’t count on Hill at qb, the guy that pumped him up so much is leaving. I think the whole qb situation is why he’s gone.
It's complicated. I've addressed it a few times before in the thread. What it comes down to is that the team pays pretty high salaries and bonuses up front and then restructures those deals and lets some people walk. Mickey Loomis has his own methodology to the cap which ensures that the Saints are always competitive (which we pretty much have been since he's been here). As I also said yesterday, $70MM isn't that much as we often start the offseason $100MM or more over that year's cap. Let me go find some shit that might explain it in lay terms. Essentially, we pay a lot of money to sign the free agents that we want and push the cap hits into the future. We're always a little hamstrung on being able to get super high priced talent. But in the offseason, we will renegotiate several veterans' contracts to move pro-rations a year or two down the line. In other words, we're always facing cap hell with the tradeoff of having a quality roster - just one where you can't keep everyone you might want to.
Here's an article from last offseason where we were $100MM over the cap which they figured would shrink after COVID. We were able to resign Ram and Lattimore to giant deals but ended up losing Jackrabbit Jenkins and Emmanuel Sanders (admittedly cost us with Thomas' ending up being out for the entire season with no one else stepping up). Here's an article from ESPN that shows exactly how we did it:
If you have subscriber access to The Atlantic (which I don't), there's a great article called "Salary Cap Magic?" that discusses Loomis' tactics.
Summary is that we do the same thing every year. One day it could bite us in the ass considering all the sideline money that keeps us from a giant free agent haul. But when you're as good as we are in the early rounds of the draft and particularly with picking up undrafted free agents and putting them on the active roster, things can be done. It comes down to player evaluation (Jeff Ireland), so I was glad the Bears passed on him.
I think the main issue is qb. You’ve had Brees and now you have no idea what you have. You can’t count on Jameis. You can’t count on Hill at qb, the guy that pumped him up so much is leaving. I think the whole qb situation is why he’s gone.
That's a legitimate point. For sure QB is the most important position on the team. Jameis was doing what he had to do for us to win before tearing knee ligaments. Hill, absolutely you can't count on him. I'm pretty sure he had season ending injuries every year in college and has had several here including the Lisfranc injury (and subsequent surgery) he sustained late this year. His contract is 4 years $140MM but voidable each year. It was done that way to create space for the future.
But if Loomis is sold on Winston and has a coach in mind (or in house) that potentially agrees with him, I think you ride that horse and maybe draft someone to compete with Ian Book for the #3 (or #4 depending on Hill) in the 3rd or 4th round. I'm not saying it's not a major piece item. But (if healthy) we have a roster than can win with a signal caller that doesn't necessarily have to win a lot of games by his own efforts.
I think it's a matter of "Do you trust national media to be able to accurately evaluate every team as well as local media and people inside the actual organization?" The easy, "obvious" headline for a national audience who doesn't follow a team day in and day out is to say that "Big Time Coach Leaves Smaller Market Team in Flux to Join Larger Market Team".
It's a combination of looking for an obvious answer and creating a narrative that will keep people interested for multiple days. The reality is a lot less interesting - he's just burnt out. He doesn't want to coach right now. And he knows the organization has such a great culture, owner, and leadership team that he wants to end things now before Dennis Allen has a chance to sign on with another team.
He's a head coach who came into a city in 2006 directly after our city was in shambles from Katrina, who took that team and rebuilt the franchise while symbolically rebuilding that city. He turned the team into one of the winningest teams in the last two decades, including a Super Bowl, 7 division titles, 9 ten win seasons, 63% winning percentage. He dealt with the Bountygate scandal. He dealt with the multiple seasons of aftermath from that scandal with all the lost draft picks. He dealt with season after season of the Saints losing in HEARTBREAKING fashion in the playoffs - Beastquake, the No Call, the Minnesota Miracle, and the disappointing loss last year in Brees' final game. He dealt with two years of Covid protocols. He dealt with this past season where he had to try to replace Brees, his talented replacement going out for the season in Game 7, SO MANY INJURIES on both sides of the ball, an impossible MNF game in which over 20 players were out with Covid.. all to think they were still on the cusp of a playoff run until the 9ers made an INSANE come from behind victory against the Rams in Week 18.
HE IS BURNT OUT. He wants to step down from coaching. It's boring, but it's reality. I watched his hour and half long press conference last night. He LOVES this organization. There is no coaching job he'd rather have.
I might be wrong about this. And maybe in a year if he announces he's going to coach the Cowboys, I'll gladly eat crow. But I whole-heartedly believe that this man is not going to be the Cowboys coach in one year's time. That's not what this is.
Also, I'd be SHOCKED if Dennis Allen isn't the head coach next season. The man deserves it and it's the best way to keep our culture as strong as it is.
I think it's a matter of "do you trust national media to be able to accurately evaluate every team as well as local media and people inside the actual organization?" The easy, "obvious" headline for a national audience who doesn't follow a team day in and day out is to say that "Big Time Coach Leaves Smaller Market Team in Flux to Join Larger Market Team".
It's a combination of looking for an obvious answer and creating a narrative that will keep people interested for multiple days. The reality is a lot less interesting - he's just burnt out. He doesn't want to coach right now. And he knows the organization has such a great culture, owner, and leadership team that he wants to end things now before Dennis Allen has a chance to sign on with another team.
He's a head coach who came into a city in 2006 directly after our city was in shambles from Katrina, who took that team and rebuilt the franchise while symbolically rebuilding that city. He turned the team into one of the winningest teams in the last two decades, including a Super Bowl, 7 division titles, 9 ten win seasons, 63% winning percentage. He dealt with the Bountygate scandal. He dealt with the multiple seasons of aftermath from that scandal with all the lost draft picks. He dealt with season after season of the Saints losing in HEARTBREAKING fashion in the playoffs - Beastquake, the No Call, the Minnesota Miracle, and the disappointing loss last year in Brees' final game. He dealt with two years of Covid protocols. He dealt with this past season where he had to try to replace Brees, his talented replacement going out for the season in Game 7, SO MANY INJURIES on both sides of the ball, an impossible MNF game in which over 20 players were out with Covid.. all to think they were still on the cusp of a playoff run until the 9ers made an INSANE come from behind victory against the Rams in Week 18.
HE IS BURNT OUT. He wants to step down from coaching. It's boring, but it's reality. I watched his hour and half long press conference last night. He LOVES this organization. There is no coaching job he'd rather have.
I might be wrong about this. And maybe in a year if he announces he's going to coach the Cowboys, I'll gladly eat crow. But I whole-heartedly believe that this man is not going to be the Cowboys coach in one year's time. That's not what this is.
Also, I'd be SHOCKED if Dennis Allen isn't the head coach next season. The man deserves it and it's the best way to keep our culture as strong as it is.
You’re right home team media is always right. Trust me, I listen to Clemson sports talk radio all day I know. There’s a positive spin on everything.
I think it's a matter of "do you trust national media to be able to accurately evaluate every team as well as local media and people inside the actual organization?" The easy, "obvious" headline for a national audience who doesn't follow a team day in and day out is to say that "Big Time Coach Leaves Smaller Market Team in Flux to Join Larger Market Team".
It's a combination of looking for an obvious answer and creating a narrative that will keep people interested for multiple days. The reality is a lot less interesting - he's just burnt out. He doesn't want to coach right now. And he knows the organization has such a great culture, owner, and leadership team that he wants to end things now before Dennis Allen has a chance to sign on with another team.
He's a head coach who came into a city in 2006 directly after our city was in shambles from Katrina, who took that team and rebuilt the franchise while symbolically rebuilding that city. He turned the team into one of the winningest teams in the last two decades, including a Super Bowl, 7 division titles, 9 ten win seasons, 63% winning percentage. He dealt with the Bountygate scandal. He dealt with the multiple seasons of aftermath from that scandal with all the lost draft picks. He dealt with season after season of the Saints losing in HEARTBREAKING fashion in the playoffs - Beastquake, the No Call, the Minnesota Miracle, and the disappointing loss last year in Brees' final game. He dealt with two years of Covid protocols. He dealt with this past season where he had to try to replace Brees, his talented replacement going out for the season in Game 7, SO MANY INJURIES on both sides of the ball, an impossible MNF game in which over 20 players were out with Covid.. all to think they were still on the cusp of a playoff run until the 9ers made an INSANE come from behind victory against the Rams in Week 18.
HE IS BURNT OUT. He wants to step down from coaching. It's boring, but it's reality. I watched his hour and half long press conference last night. He LOVES this organization. There is no coaching job he'd rather have.
I might be wrong about this. And maybe in a year if he announces he's going to coach the Cowboys, I'll gladly eat crow. But I whole-heartedly believe that this man is not going to be the Cowboys coach in one year's time. That's not what this is.
Also, I'd be SHOCKED if Dennis Allen isn't the head coach next season. The man deserves it and it's the best way to keep our culture as strong as it is.
You’re right home team media is always right. Trust me, I listen to Clemson sports talk radio all day I know. There’s a positive spin on everything.
I can't tell if you're actually agreeing with me or not. But who do you trust more when it comes to issues regarding Clemson - your local Clemson sports talk radio, the folks who spend hours every day of every week during the season talking about the team and players and coaches and games, or ESPN? I'm not talking about the biased opinionated stuff. I mean who do think understands the organization better?
haha. I don't think he's saying that. I think he's more saying listen to guys like Mike Triplet (who writes for ESPN but is local) who have a better pulse on the team than stitching together narratives. OTOH, I wouldn't be surprised if he's back in coaching in 2023 or 2024 with someone else.
Ja,
One argument some people I know that follow the Saints as closely as me are making is that Allen doesn't really seem to fit the bill since he's pretty reserved and soft-spoken and maybe not an insider with the powers that be. He was an initial Sean Payton hire in 2006 and stayed through 2010 as a positional coach before going to Denver to be Defensive Coordinator for a year before getting the Raiders Head Coaching job. We brought him back in 2015 as interim DC then dropped the "interim" to be our DC since 2016. I'd like to think he's the choice, but I'm not quite 100% on it.
You’re right home team media is always right. Trust me, I listen to Clemson sports talk radio all day I know. There’s a positive spin on everything.
I can't tell if you're actually agreeing with me or not. But who do you trust more when it comes to issues regarding Clemson - your local Clemson sports talk radio, the folks who spend hours every day of every week during the season talking about the team and players and coaches and games, or ESPN? I'm not talking about the biased opinionated stuff. I mean who do think understands the organization better?
The local people definitely know more. But it’s also hard to tell what’s real with all of the positive spin they put on everything.
Local people can be way more hit or miss honestly. Cleveland media is horrible and all negative clickbait to purposely stir up drama. Ohio state media is so positive it’s kinda weird especially with the whole urban scandal.
Local people can be way more hit or miss honestly. Cleveland media is horrible and all negative clickbait to purposely stir up drama. Ohio state media is so positive it’s kinda weird especially with the whole urban scandal.
Yeah. Tennessee's fan base is so volatile that sports writers are almost forced to slant everything to the mood. I can't remember which it was, but I remember a veteran sports writer wrote an article that was deservedly critical of a coach in his honeymoon phase. People absolutely lost their shit on him calling him every name in the book talking like he needed to be fired for his hack writing skills. It was amazing to watch.
Post by potentpotables on Jan 26, 2022 13:17:13 GMT -5
Interesting question, and I don't think there's really an answer. The local guys obviously have a better pulse on the team - sources, relationships, being on the ground, etc. But I think that can lead to some clouded judgment. I think I'd believe local guys for the most part, but if someone said something different at the national level, I'd certainly consider who likely sources are and what motivations may be. It also depends on the national reporter, right? I think for the most part I'd listen if Peter King said something, for example. I think he's got his problems - he's an access guy - but also think he does his best to be impartial.
Local people can be way more hit or miss honestly. Cleveland media is horrible and all negative clickbait to purposely stir up drama. Ohio state media is so positive it’s kinda weird especially with the whole urban scandal.
Yeah. Tennessee's fan base is so volatile that sports writers are almost forced to slant everything to the mood. I can't remember which it was, but I remember a veteran sports writer wrote an article that was deservedly critical of a coach in his honeymoon phase. People absolutely lost their shit on him calling him every name in the book talking like he needed to be fired for his hack writing skills. It was amazing to watch.
No doubt. But I'm sure you know who's credible and go-to for information on the radio, tv or the News Sentinel and who are the rabble-rousers and slanted reporters. Fans in general tend to be emotionally-driven idiots. Some reporters grift on that, and some can't separate their own fandom from the job of a journalist. We have plenty unobjective and emotional-responder local Saints beat writers and radio hosts. And there are some who actually cover the realities without trying to play to the crowd.
All I know is rebuild or not, the eagles kicked the crap out of the ultimate defense and scared sean payton into retiring. I mean thats just how I see it.
Cowboys arent gonna go after Payton. McCarthy stays the year, he gets axed if they lose a playoff game or miss them altogether, Kellen Moore takes over and thatll be that.
Besides, this is an upgrade for Dallas? Looks more like a lateral move
Post by potentpotables on Jan 26, 2022 13:40:46 GMT -5
I went to high school with Brandon Hunt (and then grad school as well). Great, great guy - was the one pounding the table for the Steelers to acquire Minkah Fitzpatrick for a first from the Dolphins. He's one of the two internal candidates for the Steelers (assuming Colbert retires) so I wonder if this is creating leverage or if he's tired or waiting. I don't think I should text and ask, but I'm tempted.
All I know is rebuild or not, the eagles kicked the crap out of the ultimate defense and scared sean payton into retiring. I mean thats just how I see it.
Cowboys arent gonna go after Payton. McCarthy stays the year, he gets axed if they lose a playoff game or miss them altogether, Kellen Moore takes over and thatll be that.
Besides, this is an upgrade for Dallas? Looks more like a lateral move
lol
We're 7-4 vs. y'all in the Payton era including a couple of times we knocked you out of the playoffs.
You literally had all of Jack Anderson out for that game. Of those not already on IR, we were missing Kamara, both of our pro bowl/all-pro tackles (Armstead & Ramczyk), two major Dline contributors in Kpassagnon and Malcolm Roach and the beast himself, CGJJ. We had Trevor Siemian starting. You beat us 40-29 even though like 21 or 22 of our points came in the 4th if I remember. Hurts had 3 TD's rushing, Slay 1 Interception TD and 4 field goals or whatever. You can boast over that game from that timespan. We'll probably kick the shit out of you again soon enough.
All I know is rebuild or not, the eagles kicked the crap out of the ultimate defense and scared sean payton into retiring. I mean thats just how I see it.
Cowboys arent gonna go after Payton. McCarthy stays the year, he gets axed if they lose a playoff game or miss them altogether, Kellen Moore takes over and thatll be that.
Besides, this is an upgrade for Dallas? Looks more like a lateral move
lol
We're 7-4 vs. y'all in the Payton era including a couple of times we knocked you out of the playoffs.
You literally had all of Jack Anderson out for that game. Of those not already on IR, we were missing Kamara, both of our pro bowl/all-pro tackles (Armstead & Ramczyk), two major Dline contributors in Kpassagnon and Malcolm Roach and the beast himself, CGJJ. We had Trevor Siemian starting. You beat us 40-29 even though like 21 or 22 of our points came in the 4th if I remember. Hurts had 3 TD's rushing, Slay 1 Interception TD and 4 field goals or whatever. You can boast over that game from that timespan. We'll probably kick the shit out of you again soon enough.
I had almost forgotten how awful those Trever Siemian games were to watch this season. Jesus Christ. Horse shit ugly games
We're 7-4 vs. y'all in the Payton era including a couple of times we knocked you out of the playoffs.
You literally had all of Jack Anderson out for that game. Of those not already on IR, we were missing Kamara, both of our pro bowl/all-pro tackles (Armstead & Ramczyk), two major Dline contributors in Kpassagnon and Malcolm Roach and the beast himself, CGJJ. We had Trevor Siemian starting. You beat us 40-29 even though like 21 or 22 of our points came in the 4th if I remember. Hurts had 3 TD's rushing, Slay 1 Interception TD and 4 field goals or whatever. You can boast over that game from that timespan. We'll probably kick the shit out of you again soon enough.
I had almost forgotten how awful those Trever Siemian games were to watch this season. Jesus Christ. Horse shit ugly games
He did what he could usually with our 4 best o lineman out and no receivers but Harris. I don’t hate him and wouldn’t mind him sticking around as the backup or third qb for a year or two. But hopefully we won’t need him in too many games.
I had almost forgotten how awful those Trever Siemian games were to watch this season. Jesus Christ. Horse shit ugly games
He did what he could usually with our 4 best o lineman out and no receivers but Harris. I don’t hate him and wouldn’t mind him sticking around as the backup or third qb for a year or two. But hopefully we won’t need him in too many games.
I'm not putting the blame squarely on his shoulders here, but coincidence or not those four games that he was the starter were arguably some of the worst games I've ever seen the Saints play in the past decade. I mean, even dating back to the Bountygate season. Just unwatchable garbage
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