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I think adding Dalton means the Saints won’t use our first pick on a QB. Hopefully they grab an O line or WR
This qb class is not the one to take a flyer on with a first rounder. Theres a decent number of mocks that have maybe 2 qbs in the first at most. Hopefully its like one this time.
We build through the lines pretty often. We get quality linemen elsewhere besides the first (Armstead). But I don’t ever have a problem with grabbing someone who is going to start 5-10 years regardless of it not being a sexy type pick. Since we drafted DE Cam Jordan In 2011, we got two years with no picks, Mark Ingram, Kenny Vaccaro, Marshon Lattimore, Brandin Cooks, Stephone Anthony (a bust) but also Sheldon Rankins, Ryan Ramczyk, Cesar Ruiz (jury still out) Peyton Turner and Marcus Davenport. We usually have good lines though a bunch of injuries last year on the online were consequential.
Malcolm Jenkins is retiring. He was a great safety for us, and I'm glad he got 2 rings even if one was with the Eagles. He's been a bow-tie designer for a while, and he's very active in justice and PSA work on behalf of breast cancer. I love that motherfucker and wish him the best in his post-NFL life.
We build through the lines pretty often. We get quality linemen elsewhere besides the first (Armstead). But I don’t ever have a problem with grabbing someone who is going to start 5-10 years regardless of it not being a sexy type pick. Since we drafted DE Cam Jordan In 2011, we got two years with no picks, Mark Ingram, Kenny Vaccaro, Marshon Lattimore, Brandin Cooks, Stephone Anthony (a bust) but also Sheldon Rankins, Ryan Ramczyk, Cesar Ruiz (jury still out) Peyton Turner and Marcus Davenport. We usually have good lines though a bunch of injuries last year on the online were consequential.
IMO, unless you're landing a stud LT then your investment is better elsewhere. QB,WR,CB,DE. That elite talent is super expensive so you get it cost controlled for four years with a fifth year option and then you can kick the can down the road with a franchise tag if you need to.
We build through the lines pretty often. We get quality linemen elsewhere besides the first (Armstead). But I don’t ever have a problem with grabbing someone who is going to start 5-10 years regardless of it not being a sexy type pick. Since we drafted DE Cam Jordan In 2011, we got two years with no picks, Mark Ingram, Kenny Vaccaro, Marshon Lattimore, Brandin Cooks, Stephone Anthony (a bust) but also Sheldon Rankins, Ryan Ramczyk, Cesar Ruiz (jury still out) Peyton Turner and Marcus Davenport. We usually have good lines though a bunch of injuries last year on the online were consequential.
IMO, unless you're landing a stud LT then your investment is better elsewhere. QB,WR,CB,DE. That elite talent is super expensive so you get it cost controlled for four years with a fifth year option and then you can kick the can down the road with a franchise tag if you need to.
Jim Finks was the architect of the 1985 Bears Super Bowl Champs and was our GM when we first got good on a consistent basis (Jim Mora years). He was a proponent of building a team from the lines, so that's where I got that opinion from. I don't think it's mandatory that a team does that, but we got our RT and C in the last few years. Our RT (Ram) is a perennial probowler and also an All Pro. Ruiz remains to be seen if he pans out at C, but he also can play G. I don't disagree with your idea and have no problem getting an impact weapon or skill player on O or D. I don't know about QB's though. Seems as though many recent and highly successful QB's have come from later in the draft. Brady was a 6th. Brees was a 2nd. Rodgers was a later first rounder but he was the second QB drafted that day. Roethlisberger was a first. Prescott was a 4th. Stafford was the first overall as was Jameis. But there are plenty of possible busts as well at or near the very top - JaMarcus Russell, Tim Couch, Aikili Smith, RG3, Ryan Leaf, Johnny Football, Leinart, Vince Young, Harrington, etc.
Some additional information from Bleacher Report
Bust rates among first-round picks, 25-year sample
QB 57 40.4%
DL 170 35.3%
WR 99 30.3%
CB 91 26.4%
In my world, you draft the best player on your board unless it's a position you don't need and you're already stacked there. Then you look to alternative scenarios beyond BPA to things like BPA at position, trade downs, etc.
Not saying there isn't first round talent in other positions, just that you can get more bang for your buck at those skill positions.
Certainly. I mean we have Michael Thomas (formerly the greatest active WR starting his career in the game), Marshon Lattimore (one of the best CB's there is) and a couple other skill guys. But look at the 25-year 1st round bust rates for those 4 positions you mentioned that I posted in the reply...
QB 40.4%
DL 35.3%*
WR 30.3%
CB 26.4%
*You said DE, they weren't excluded from the whole D-line, so I had to use what they had.
I know where you're coming from, but I fell like it's a little hard to figure how you can get more bang for you buck on the selection of the position alone considering 2 of 5 QB's would bust, 1 of 3 DL's, 1 of 3 WR's and 1 of 4 CB's. Obviously for all those misses, if you hit you hit. They don't all become superstars or anything, but the flip is that 3 of 5 QB's won't bust, 2 of 3 DL's and WR's and 3 of 4 CB's wont.
Well sure there are busts in every round but if I remember right, the success rates decline the deeper you get into the draft and then tick up a bit with UDFAs.
Well sure there are busts in every round but if I remember right, the success rates decline the deeper you get into the draft and then tick up a bit with UDFAs.
That’s correct. You can also bring in longevity per round drafted to prove that. Im just saying that the 4 positions mentioned were the 4 highest bust rates. Different GM’s and player personnel people take different approaches to the draft. The disagreement was over whether or not you’re wasting money getting the big guys (and more to the point o-line) in the first round. It’s worked out for us for decades on both sides of the ball except DT Jonathan Sullivan who flopped and cost us 2 firsts to move up to get him. But guys like Willie Roaf, Joe Johnson, Will Smith, Wayne Martin et al prove to me that you can get a career out of a first round lineman pretty often. We did anyway going back to the late 1980’s.
Patrick Peterson is staying in Minnesota on a one year deal. Mathieu and Ceedy traded some tweets today. That could take the sting out of losing both Jenkins and Marcus Williams at Safety. We have the money if he’s not looking to break the bank. I said two weeks ago we could find a way to afford him if we had to. Who knows?
Well sure there are busts in every round but if I remember right, the success rates decline the deeper you get into the draft and then tick up a bit with UDFAs.
That’s correct. You can also bring in longevity per round drafted to prove that. Im just saying that the 4 positions mentioned were the 4 highest bust rates. Different GM’s and player personnel people take different approaches to the draft. The disagreement was over whether or not you’re wasting money getting the big guys (and more to the point o-line) in the first round. It’s worked out for us for decades on both sides of the ball except DT Jonathan Sullivan who flopped and cost us 2 firsts to move up to get him. But guys like Willie Roaf, Joe Johnson, Will Smith, Wayne Martin et al prove to me that you can get a career out of a first round lineman pretty often. We did anyway going back to the late 1980’s.
I see your point. I just think that financial trends support the first round investment for this positions as a cost control.
You’re right on that too I think. We at one time had the two highest paid guards in the league or the highest salary for guards or something with Carl Nicks and Jahri Evans. I fee like it would come down to the type of offense a team is running and certainly skill set at QB. We had to protect Brees the last 16 years as a main element because he’s generally not going to run. Some teams have super mobile quarterbacks or emphasize zone blocking or whatever in their running scheme. So they have to have players for those systems which certainly can be found later in the draft or small schools. Shit we just lost our starting LT in Armstead to the Dolphins. He was a 3rd rounder out of Arkansas Pine Bluff in 2013. He was a mainstay when healthy. Now he’s a Dolphin with a 5 year 75MM contract.
idk Leftwich was pretty much running the offense, and I think bowles has done pretty much the same. iirc arians leaving the Cardinals was about health issues and then he came back when Bucs job opened up, probably less stress. if anything I'd wonder if he's more comfortable w doing that knowing Brady is back and they don't need to reset
