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How can something so wrong be said with such confidence?
Are you actually denying that rappers rap about sexual things or brag about their wealth?
No. There’s a lot of hip hop I can’t stand. But I am saying that there are immeasurably more examples of awesome, creative, forward thinking hip-hop over a longer period of time that make a comparison to reggaeton absurd.
There's some good hardcore but most of it sucks and people who are into it are usually annoying assholes.
Esteban is super nice though I've met him irl.
Things were different in the mid 1980's before the metal-crossover brought in different types of people. In the hardcore days as we called them later (83-86), the scene was all DIY with friends and acquaintances booking shows at independent venues and VFW halls, allies and allied bands around, fanzines which we had. It was as anti-corporate and anti-Reagan as anything going. The anarchist-left politics educated a lot of kids who were just out there to kick it to some tunes. Very cool movement during its heyday before it got watered down by time. I got a couple covers from a fanzine me and my buddy did that I'll throw up later when I can dig it up. Wait, I found it. haha.
Side note: I saw a lot of talk about how annoying coffee/wine/beer snobs are during the last survivor. If we had any self awareness, we’d know that music snobs like us are way more annoying to the general public.
There's some good hardcore but most of it sucks and people who are into it are usually annoying assholes.
Esteban is super nice though I've met him irl.
Things were different in the mid 1980's before the metal-crossover brought in different types of people. In the hardcore days as we called them later (83-86), the scene was all DIY with friends and acquaintances booking shows at independent venues and VFW halls, allies and allied bands around, fanzines which we had. It was as anti-corporate and anti-Reagan as anything going. The anarchist-left politics educated a lot of kids who were just out there to kick it to some tunes. Very cool movement during its heyday before it got watered down by time. I got a couple covers from a fanzine me and my buddy did that I'll throw up later when I can dig it up. Wait, I found it. haha.
Side note: I know, at some point, everyone's going to come for grunge, but it was the music that made me really fall in love with music, including playing music, as a yungin', so it will forever hold the most special of places in my flannel-clad heart.
This was hair metal for me, largely replaced by grunge a couple years later.
Are you actually denying that rappers rap about sexual things or brag about their wealth?
No. There’s a lot of hip hop I can’t stand. But I am saying that there are immeasurably more examples of awesome, creative, forward thinking hip-hop over a longer period of time that make a comparison to reggaeton absurd.
Good, then why are you talking to me like I'm some dumbass. Actually hot take, I don't think calling people out for their sometimes unwilling ignorant takes is healthy for a discussion, or by extention this whole survivor thing. I'd rather have a conversation with someone explaining me stuff, sharing their knowledge than people talking each other down or calling them out. Appreciate esteban and snowman sharing their knowledge so far tbh.
On topic; I disagree, there is or used to be a whole culture, movement of rappers being braggadocious, ignorant, offensive. Moreover, I think reggaeton is more regarded and used as party music (in comparison to hiphop, atleast back in the day / 2000s) therefor resulting in easier on the ears lyrics (see your take) than forward thinking, consciencious, socially critical ones as in hiphop (also not saying, it can't exist in reggaeton. There probably are examples). I also feel like you gross over the thing that a lot of artists put out hiphop, but not every hiphop artist is therefor considered 'good' or 'forward thinking'.
Last Edit: Jul 26, 2022 12:25:15 GMT -5 by Bing - Back to Top
Side note: I know, at some point, everyone's going to come for grunge, but it was the music that made me really fall in love with music, including playing music, as a yungin', so it will forever hold the most special of places in my flannel-clad heart.
i'm just getting a sense that the hyperpop fans are not going down in this survivor without a fight. i respect that but also will enjoy the kicking and screaming.
Post by piggy pablo on Jul 26, 2022 12:57:19 GMT -5
Grunge is just such a loose genre to me. There's Nirvana who I consider to be pretty much a punk band and then there's PJ and Soundgarden and stuff which is one step removed from like hair metal. I like plenty of grunge but I don't really need it to stick around.
No. There’s a lot of hip hop I can’t stand. But I am saying that there are immeasurably more examples of awesome, creative, forward thinking hip-hop over a longer period of time that make a comparison to reggaeton absurd.
Good, then why are you talking to me like I'm some dumbass. Actually hot take, I don't think calling people out for their sometimes unwilling ignorant takes is healthy for a discussion, or by extention this whole survivor thing. I'd rather have a conversation with someone explaining me stuff, sharing their knowledge than people talking each other down or calling them out. Appreciate esteban and snowman sharing their knowledge so far tbh.
On topic; I disagree, there is or used to be a whole culture, movement of rappers being braggadocious, ignorant, offensive. Moreover, I think reggaeton is more regarded and used as party music (in comparison to hiphop, atleast back in the day / 2000s) therefor resulting in easier on the ears lyrics (see your take) than forward thinking, consciencious, socially critical ones as in hiphop (also not saying, it can't exist in reggaeton. There probably are examples). I also feel like you gross over the thing that a lot of artists put out hiphop, but not every hiphop artist is therefor considered 'good' or 'forward thinking'.
Hip-hop is an art form that’s been popular for 40 years and has undergone a ton of divergent waves and movements. It’s a giant category that covers a really wide range of music styles. Everything from Kanye to Tupac to Tribe Called Quest to Death Grips to Kreayshawn and Vanilla Ice is considered “hip-hop.” You can listen to 15 random “hip-hop” songs consecutively that sound nothing like each other. Some of it is overtly political. Some of it is intensely personal. Some of it is party music. Some of it is experimental. Some of it is objectifying and awful. Some of it is art at its finest and some of it is complete trash. That said, it’s been the primary popular musical art form in America for a couple of decades now.
What we know as reggaeton has been around for less than half the time and is just now beginning to see some signs of innovation and change. It’s purely party music, as you said. Even with some changes to the vibe and sound in recent years, it is still very much one note - “let’s drink and/or fuck and/or have a good time.” I guess it’s possible that if you give it another 20 years, we’ll see it shape and form into something totally different. But we have little proof of that as of right now. We’ve seen that over and over again with hip-hop. Given that, I don’t think it’s unfair for me to call comparing one to the other absurd.
PS: didn’t mean to talk to you like a dumbass. Just thought your take was bad.
Grunge is just such a loose genre to me. There's Nirvana who I consider to be pretty much a punk band and then there's PJ and Soundgarden and stuff which is one step removed from like hair metal. I like plenty of grunge but I don't really need it to stick around.
Then there were bands like Candlebox and Ugly Kid Joe who peaked briefly around that transitional period. Were they grunge or hair metal? Both? Neither?
Grunge is just such a loose genre to me. There's Nirvana who I consider to be pretty much a punk band and then there's PJ and Soundgarden and stuff which is one step removed from like hair metal. I like plenty of grunge but I don't really need it to stick around.
im on buttrock currently but down to go for grunge first
well yes if I wanted a perfect sensory experience to focus or relax I would fly to my secluded meditation cave in Malaysia where, sitting on my expansive rugs with the smell of incense wafting over me, all I can hear are the dulcet tones of the wind bouncing off the rocks in the background, but in a pinch ambient music will do.
Link me some ambient music that simulates that specific experience? sounds relaxing
Completely unarbitrairy categories but whatever.
Dreamy: - Grouper - Ana Roxanne
Field recordings: - Celer - Claire Rousay - Girls in Airports - Jana Winderen
Droney: - KMRU - How To Disappear Completely - Rafael Anton Irisarri
Jazzy - Eli Keszler - Steiger - Oliver Coates
Classical-influenced: - Kali Malone - Sarah Davachi - Bing & Ruth - Ryuichi Sakamoto - Max Richter - Winged Victory For a Sullen
Electronics infused: - Tim Hecker - William Basinski - Fennesz - Perila - Malibu - early Yves Tumor - early Oneohtrix Point Never
Ambient techno: - GAS - Prince Of Denmark / Traumprinz - early Autechre - Boards Of Canada - Efdemin
vaporwave? - 2814 - telepath - virtual dream plaza
Last Edit: Jul 26, 2022 13:07:44 GMT -5 by Bing - Back to Top
Grunge is just such a loose genre to me. There's Nirvana who I consider to be pretty much a punk band and then there's PJ and Soundgarden and stuff which is one step removed from like hair metal. I like plenty of grunge but I don't really need it to stick around.
im on buttrock currently but down to go for grunge first
Does reggaeton really have its equivalent to The Message? Like *that* song that opened the door for more socially conscious lyrics?
There’s a couple of artists like Residente and Calle 13 that have tried to lean into that realm. However, funnily enough, they both skew a little away from reggaeton and more into what we would consider rap or hip-hop.
Figured this is what would get quoted, doesn't mean I hate reggaeton though. I don't actively dislike it (or any genre, really), but I do find there's less variation within the genre compared to others. I love house (techno not nearly as much), but house doesn't nearly give me the same feeling of "I've heard this before" as reggaeton does. Or reggae, for that matter.
also i took your quote out of context just for inforoo fun.
regarding variation, i take your point. but i also expect variation or growth in some genres and artists, but not others. i honestly don't know enough about reggae or reggaeton to comment on it, but like, i never needed or wanted Slayer to grow or really do anything at all different than what they did on their first few records. many artists try to grow and critically fail (Metallica) and then are widely lauded when they just get back to doing what they used to (Metallica). while i don't necessarily dislike what MMJ became, I'd prefer to live in a parallel universe where they recorded "Z" but then every record after that was just them doing the same thing they did on "It Still Moves" and Jim James never released a solo record.
techno is a good genre example. there is room to play around in the genre, but for the most part it's a very restrictive genre. the next thing i'm going to say is going to sound genre-gatekeepy, but when i used to read RA they'd review an album and call it "techno", and i'd listen to it and it would basically be all the sounds of a techno record but with no kick drum or hi-hat. i'm sorry to be the one to take on the burden of defining techno, but if you can't dance to it it's not techno, it's something else. calling music without a beat techno is like calling a flute solo rock and roll.
Grunge is just such a loose genre to me. There's Nirvana who I consider to be pretty much a punk band and then there's PJ and Soundgarden and stuff which is one step removed from like hair metal. I like plenty of grunge but I don't really need it to stick around.
Then there were bands like Candlebox and Ugly Kid Joe who peaked briefly around that transitional period. Were they grunge or hair metal? Both? Neither?
