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Good, then why are you talking to me like I'm some dumbass. Actually hot take, I don't think calling people out for their sometimes unwilling ignorant takes is healthy for a discussion, or by extention this whole survivor thing. I'd rather have a conversation with someone explaining me stuff, sharing their knowledge than people talking each other down or calling them out. Appreciate esteban and snowman sharing their knowledge so far tbh.
On topic; I disagree, there is or used to be a whole culture, movement of rappers being braggadocious, ignorant, offensive. Moreover, I think reggaeton is more regarded and used as party music (in comparison to hiphop, atleast back in the day / 2000s) therefor resulting in easier on the ears lyrics (see your take) than forward thinking, consciencious, socially critical ones as in hiphop (also not saying, it can't exist in reggaeton. There probably are examples). I also feel like you gross over the thing that a lot of artists put out hiphop, but not every hiphop artist is therefor considered 'good' or 'forward thinking'.
Hip-hop is an art form that’s been popular for 40 years and has undergone a ton of divergent waves and movements. It’s a giant category that covers a really wide range of music styles. Everything from Kanye to Tupac to Tribe Called Quest to Death Grips to Kreayshawn and Vanilla Ice is considered “hip-hop.” You can listen to 15 random “hip-hop” songs consecutively that sound nothing like each other. Some of it is overtly political. Some of it is intensely personal. Some of it is party music. Some of it is experimental. Some of it is objectifying and awful. Some of it is art at its finest and some of it is complete trash. That said, it’s been the primary popular musical art form in America for a couple of decades now.
What we know as reggaeton has been around for less than half the time and is just now beginning to see some signs of innovation and change. It’s purely party music, as you said. Even with some changes to the vibe and sound in recent years, it is still very much one note - “let’s drink and/or fuck and/or have a good time.” I guess it’s possible that if you give it another 20 years, we’ll see it shape and form into something totally different. But we have little proof of that as of right now. We’ve seen that over and over again with hip-hop. Given that, I don’t think it’s unfair for me to call comparing one to the other absurd.
PS: didn’t mean to talk to you like a dumbass. Just thought your take was bad.
Yeah, for sure. You can defenitly see people trying to break bounderies, trying out new things since the boom of the genre 7 (?) years ago. Weird thing is that the splash Yankee made back in the day did not the same thing as J Balvin or Bad Bunny have been doing since they broke through.
I do feel you can already see changes happening below the surface. Perreo was born not so long ago and in even in other genres, you're seeing people using the classic dembow beat - maybe it's the genre being white washed. The dembow, just like the 4x4 in techno is so much integrained with the genre that reggaeton will only work as a starting point (see again perreo) for new, other genres. Though I feel like Bad Bunny is certainly doing his thing with the genre incorporating rock on 'El Ultimo' and various genres (thanks to several guests shining on the record) on his latest. And other latin pop stars incorporate r&b or pop influences in their sound. People like Kelman Duran or C. Tangana are also doing interesting things. Feel like it's not so black and white that the genre is still in his child's shoes, but I agree with most that it's still very much a young genre.
Then there were bands like Candlebox and Ugly Kid Joe who peaked briefly around that transitional period. Were they grunge or hair metal? Both? Neither?
I'd classify them both as buttrock.
I’ve never really understood what buttrock is. If we go with all the shitty bands that came after the grunge wave I’m down with getting rid of that next.
I’ve never really understood what buttrock is. If we go with all the shitty bands that came after the grunge wave I’m down with getting rid of that next.
Neither of these would be *after* the grunge wave, so by my definition, not buttrock.
I’ve never really understood what buttrock is. If we go with all the shitty bands that came after the grunge wave I’m down with getting rid of that next.
Buttrock comes from music that is played on stations with tag lines like "Nothing but rock! 92.3QROK!! Turn it uuuupppppppp"
I’ve never really understood what buttrock is. If we go with all the shitty bands that came after the grunge wave I’m down with getting rid of that next.
Neither of these would be *after* the grunge wave, so by my definition, not buttrock.
Candlebox were definitely after. Immediately after they tried to sound exactly like AIC.
Post by 3post1jack1 on Jul 26, 2022 13:28:16 GMT -5
i should probably be more defensive of grunge since it was one of the first genres i felt was "mine" as a kid, but I don't feel like going to bat for it. there are some great artists and great grunge songs but the elements of grunge don't necessarily move me in a way other genres do.
but grunge did give me the one song that musically describes how i felt as a teenager better than any song ever written. if you ever wonder what it was like in teenage postjack's head in high school:
i didn't even particularly love this song at the time, it was kind of a retrospective thing, hearing it later i was like "yeah that was the late 90s in one 3 minute track".
i should probably be more defensive of grunge since it was one of the first genres i felt was "mine" as a kid, but I don't feel like going to bat for it. there are some great artists and great grunge songs but the elements of grunge don't necessarily move me in a way other genres do.
but grunge did give me the one song that musically describes how i felt as a teenager better than any song ever written. if you ever wonder what it was like in teenage postjack's head in high school:
i didn't even particularly love this song at the time, it was kind of a retrospective thing, hearing it later i was like "yeah that was the late 90s in one 3 minute track".
I never really liked stone temple pilots all that much. Something about them always came off as grunge lite
i should probably be more defensive of grunge since it was one of the first genres i felt was "mine" as a kid, but I don't feel like going to bat for it. there are some great artists and great grunge songs but the elements of grunge don't necessarily move me in a way other genres do.
but grunge did give me the one song that musically describes how i felt as a teenager better than any song ever written. if you ever wonder what it was like in teenage postjack's head in high school:
i didn't even particularly love this song at the time, it was kind of a retrospective thing, hearing it later i was like "yeah that was the late 90s in one 3 minute track".
I never really liked stone temple pilots all that much. Something about them always came off as grunge lite
I feel like their first album was too much a carbon copy of Pearl Jam, but they found their own voice after that. Purple is a kick-ass record.
I’ve never really understood what buttrock is. If we go with all the shitty bands that came after the grunge wave I’m down with getting rid of that next.
See this picture of the guy from Staind looking like he really needs to take a shit? That’s buttrock.
Figured this is what would get quoted, doesn't mean I hate reggaeton though. I don't actively dislike it (or any genre, really), but I do find there's less variation within the genre compared to others. I love house (techno not nearly as much), but house doesn't nearly give me the same feeling of "I've heard this before" as reggaeton does. Or reggae, for that matter.
also i took your quote out of context just for inforoo fun.
regarding variation, i take your point. but i also expect variation or growth in some genres and artists, but not others. i honestly don't know enough about reggae or reggaeton to comment on it, but like, i never needed or wanted Slayer to grow or really do anything at all different than what they did on their first few records. many artists try to grow and critically fail (Metallica) and then are widely lauded when they just get back to doing what they used to (Metallica). while i don't necessarily dislike what MMJ became, I'd prefer to live in a parallel universe where they recorded "Z" but then every record after that was just them doing the same thing they did on "It Still Moves" and Jim James never released a solo record.
techno is a good genre example. there is room to play around in the genre, but for the most part it's a very restrictive genre. the next thing i'm going to say is going to sound genre-gatekeepy, but when i used to read RA they'd review an album and call it "techno", and i'd listen to it and it would basically be all the sounds of a techno record but with no kick drum or hi-hat. i'm sorry to be the one to take on the burden of defining techno, but if you can't dance to it it's not techno, it's something else. calling music without a beat techno is like calling a flute solo rock and roll.
Ian Anderson would have some words about this I'm sure since he does flute solos and Jethro Tull is rock and roll.
The other thing I'd say is there is an element of people who are around 40 now who refer to almost all EDM as "Techno" because that's what was up and was a generic term for EDM when they were coming up - just like a "coke" or "hoovering" the rug became generic terms for soft drinks and vacuuming.
Just want to post some Soundgarden that doesn't get played on the radio. Not hair metal. They can get pretty sludgy
Who would call Soundgarden hair metal? They were blamed by hair metal bands for being one of the main reasons hair metal became mocked and ridiculed. People were looking for a return to rock and a move away from the traps of glam-fashion and predictable, wimpy power ballads of the hair bands. They didn't need bullet belts, teased up bleached-blonde hair, spandex pants and shit to go harder than the hair metal bands themselves were going.
i should probably be more defensive of grunge since it was one of the first genres i felt was "mine" as a kid, but I don't feel like going to bat for it. there are some great artists and great grunge songs but the elements of grunge don't necessarily move me in a way other genres do.
You were like 6 or 7 when it reached peak popularity. You have to be referring to several years later that's what you started listening to, right?
Wait, 3post1jack1 was 6 or 7 when grunge hit? That was like 1991. Thank you esteban for making me feel old.
Yeah, I think he said he was 38. I saw Soundgarden in 1989 (and '92), Pearl Jam in 1992, Alice in Chains and Primus in 1993. I was fast closing in on 30. I saw a few metal bands but proudly never saw any hair metal bands except Anthrax in the 20-teens. And I consider them a cut above regular hair metal bands since they played more thrash styled.
Wait, 3post1jack1 was 6 or 7 when grunge hit? That was like 1991. Thank you esteban for making me feel old.
Yeah, I think he said he was 38. I saw Soundgarden in 1989 (and '92), Pearl Jam in 1992, Alice in Chains and Primus in 1993. I was fast closing in on 30. I saw a few metal bands but proudly never saw any hair metal bands except Anthrax in the 20-teens. And I consider them a cut above regular hair metal bands since they played more thrash styled.
Yeah, I think he said he was 38. I saw Soundgarden in 1989 (and '92), Pearl Jam in 1992, Alice in Chains and Primus in 1993. I was fast closing in on 30. I saw a few metal bands but proudly never saw any hair metal bands except Anthrax in the 20-teens. And I consider them a cut above regular hair metal bands since they played more thrash styled.
Did you just call anthrax hair metal?
This anthrax?
I said they were a cut above regular hair metal bands since they played more thrash (and had a NY sensibility). They were a hybrid band that had a signer who sounds like a hair metal singer. But the music is harder. Thrash and hair-metal scenes overlapped in the mid to late 1980's. Anthrax goes back to way before hair metal got popular though. They are one of those acts that overlap a lot of genres.
