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It seems to be the most divisive episode among watchers. A lot of people calling it boring or filler (even more so than episode 3). Considering it's part of the video game extra content I think fans of the game are much more open to it and probably enjoyed it more than just show watchers overall.
I enjoyed it but I could see people disliking some elements of it. Especially how they kind of tried to do a fakeout by not being totally clear at the beginning that this was a flashback.
Got it, good to get some context.
I am also predisposed to hate flashback episodes, so that doesn't help, but overall I found it to be a very boring episode that didn't reveal anything about our characters we don't already know.
I think, like Joel learning some lessons in episodes that push him more towards saving Ellie, this episode was mainly about how Ellie and her fear of being alone was pushed to save Joel at any cost. She couldn't save Riley and she couldn't save Sam but goddamn is she not going to let Joel go so easily.
But it was a long walk to get there.
I think it was nice seeing Ellie truly happy for once and it did produce a pretty big reveal with the kiss/crush.
Post by Jim Watson on Feb 27, 2023 21:40:52 GMT -5
It was definitely my least favorite episode so far but it wasn't terrible or anything. Just kind of mid, but the show has started really strong which created high expectations for me.
Kinda boring flashback episode while something critical is happening in the "present" is pretty typical for TV which is another point against it but its fine. I hope I'm surprised by what happens next
I am also predisposed to hate flashback episodes, so that doesn't help, but overall I found it to be a very boring episode that didn't reveal anything about our characters we don't already know.
I think, like Joel learning some lessons in episodes that push him more towards saving Ellie, this episode was mainly about how Ellie and her fear of being alone was pushed to save Joel at any cost. She couldn't save Riley and she couldn't save Sam but goddamn is she not going to let Joel go so easily.
But it was a long walk to get there.
I think it was nice seeing Ellie truly happy for once and it did produce a pretty big reveal with the kiss/crush.
Very much agree. Also we've had a history of "flashback" episodes - or good chunks of episodes - before, none of which were called "filler". It's Ellie's narrative now, babes, so it's time for Ellie's flashback.
In relation to the last episode, this is starting to fester more and more for me. I think the standalone episodes are robbing the audience of the relationship between Joel and Ellie. Through the games many action parts, you could see them bond with how many times Joel protected Ellie. It showed him being the father he’s always meant to be. Without that in the show, they don’t seem that dependent on each other as I felt playing the game. I get the limitations of the show but rushing through the story isn’t helping. The whole focus on TLOU2 is exactly what was built from TLOU.
I think the show is great, don’t get me wrong. I want to see this all pan out. I just wish they gave more time between the two to give the emotional impacts more weight for me.
1. i didn't buy the relationship at all. no chemistry. and it's made so much worse because this is the same show that had me in absolute shambles over bill and frank. and we have the benefit here of knowing ellie and knowing some of her story, so that should make the job easier. i don't know how much of the blame to lay at the feet of the writing vs Storm Reid, but i just kept looking at her and thinking this is an actor, i am watching a tv show. makes me think this was just a fan service kick down to video game players who already know the character. and i know teenagers are awkward, but man the dialogue was just super awkward.
2. already mentioned, but doing a flashback episode on a week-to-week show when the previous episode had pedro pascal bleeding out is some primo TV bullshit. i know they aren't going to kill joel (yet?) but i'd much prefer to see ellie heroically save joel.
3. coupled with all that we have all this retro fan service for elder millenials, of which i am: malls, arcades, mortal kombat, etc. normally i'd happily lap this shit up, but only if it's in the confines of a great episode. kind of made me resent it even more.
4. as soon as they entered the mall, my wife said "so this is when ellie gets bit?". and if this is when ellie gets bit we know Riley is probably going to die as well (fwiw my wife enjoyed the episode and made sure to inform me i was alone in my critique).
5. i didn't need this story to know that ellie is chock full of abandonment issues and has a million little defenses to keep herself from caring about others. the previous episodes have laid this out well.
this is the first episode i wasn't absolutely lapping up every last drop and shouted at the TV for "moar" when the credits rolled.
1. i didn't buy the relationship at all. no chemistry. and it's made so much worse because this is the same show that had me in absolute shambles over bill and frank. and we have the benefit here of knowing ellie and knowing some of her story, so that should make the job easier. i don't know how much of the blame to lay at the feet of the writing vs Storm Reid, but i just kept looking at her and thinking this is an actor, i am watching a tv show. makes me think this was just a fan service kick down to video game players who already know the character. and i know teenagers are awkward, but man the dialogue was just super awkward.
2. already mentioned, but doing a flashback episode on a week-to-week show when the previous episode had pedro pascal bleeding out is some primo TV bullshit. i know they aren't going to kill joel (yet?) but i'd much prefer to see ellie heroically save joel.
3. coupled with all that we have all this retro fan service for elder millenials, of which i am: malls, arcades, mortal kombat, etc. normally i'd happily lap this shit up, but only if it's in the confines of a great episode. kind of made me resent it even more.
4. as soon as they entered the mall, my wife said "so this is when ellie gets bit?". and if this is when ellie gets bit we know Riley is probably going to die as well (fwiw my wife enjoyed the episode and made sure to inform me i was alone in my critique).
5. i didn't need this story to know that ellie is chock full of abandonment issues and has a million little defenses to keep herself from caring about others. the previous episodes have laid this out well.
this is the first episode i wasn't absolutely lapping up every last drop and shouted at the TV for "moar" when the credits rolled.
Sounds like when people got upset in the latter Watchmen episodes cause of the flashbacks/origins to certain things.
1. i didn't buy the relationship at all. no chemistry. and it's made so much worse because this is the same show that had me in absolute shambles over bill and frank. and we have the benefit here of knowing ellie and knowing some of her story, so that should make the job easier. i don't know how much of the blame to lay at the feet of the writing vs Storm Reid, but i just kept looking at her and thinking this is an actor, i am watching a tv show. makes me think this was just a fan service kick down to video game players who already know the character. and i know teenagers are awkward, but man the dialogue was just super awkward.
2. already mentioned, but doing a flashback episode on a week-to-week show when the previous episode had pedro pascal bleeding out is some primo TV bullshit. i know they aren't going to kill joel (yet?) but i'd much prefer to see ellie heroically save joel.
3. coupled with all that we have all this retro fan service for elder millenials, of which i am: malls, arcades, mortal kombat, etc. normally i'd happily lap this shit up, but only if it's in the confines of a great episode. kind of made me resent it even more.
4. as soon as they entered the mall, my wife said "so this is when ellie gets bit?". and if this is when ellie gets bit we know Riley is probably going to die as well (fwiw my wife enjoyed the episode and made sure to inform me i was alone in my critique).
5. i didn't need this story to know that ellie is chock full of abandonment issues and has a million little defenses to keep herself from caring about others. the previous episodes have laid this out well.
this is the first episode i wasn't absolutely lapping up every last drop and shouted at the TV for "moar" when the credits rolled.
Sounds like when people got upset in the latter Watchmen episodes cause of the flashbacks/origins to certain things.
I adored Watchmen, flashbacks and all. The love story flashback episode still plays in my head. Like a goddamn ice cream sundae.
Goes to show I can start with a bias against flashback episodes but they can still win me over if executed well. Or for that matter tangent episodes, The Leftovers was like 90% tangents and it's one of the greatest series of all time.
Post by 3post1jack1 on Feb 28, 2023 0:26:24 GMT -5
Also y'all feel free to call me out when the Fallout show drops and it's garbage and I call every episode the best thing that's ever happened on a screen.
It seems to be the most divisive episode among watchers. A lot of people calling it boring or filler (even more so than episode 3). Considering it's part of the video game extra content I think fans of the game are much more open to it and probably enjoyed it more than just show watchers overall.
I enjoyed it but I could see people disliking some elements of it. Especially how they kind of tried to do a fakeout by not being totally clear at the beginning that this was a flashback.
Got it, good to get some context.
I am also predisposed to hate flashback episodes, so that doesn't help, but overall I found it to be a very boring episode that didn't reveal anything about our characters we don't already know.
Ellie's queer identity is one of the driving factors of the second game, and the show has previously alluded to it very little, if at all.
So yeah it might take a little bit of time to pay off, but this is a narratively necessary episode.
2. already mentioned, but doing a flashback episode on a week-to-week show when the previous episode had pedro pascal bleeding out is some primo TV bullshit. i know they aren't going to kill joel (yet?) but i'd much prefer to see ellie heroically save joel.
3. coupled with all that we have all this retro fan service for elder millenials, of which i am: malls, arcades, mortal kombat, etc. normally i'd happily lap this shit up, but only if it's in the confines of a great episode. kind of made me resent it even more.
4. as soon as they entered the mall, my wife said "so this is when ellie gets bit?". and if this is when ellie gets bit we know Riley is probably going to die as well (fwiw my wife enjoyed the episode and made sure to inform me i was alone in my critique).
5. i didn't need this story to know that ellie is chock full of abandonment issues and has a million little defenses to keep herself from caring about others. the previous episodes have laid this out well.
Ellie's not a hero. She's a scared, desperate teenage girl stuck in a world she doesn't understand.
It's not retro fan service if pop culture is literally stuck in 2003.
The basic layout of the episode (present-flashback-present) mirrors the pacing of the DLC, with some exceptions. The entire point is that Riley is at the front of Ellie's mind while she's desperately searching for what she needs to save Joel.
This isn't about Ellie being abandoned. It's about her abandoning other people. Or not abandoning them, as the case turns out to be.
Also y'all feel free to call me out when the Fallout show drops and it's garbage and I call every episode the best thing that's ever happened on a screen.
can't wait for that inevitable dumpster fire lol. I'm also real curious how the Twisted Metal show ends up, the cast seems cool (Anthony Mackie, Stephanie Beatriz, Will Arnett/Samoa Joe, Thomas Haden Church) and the style is apparently heavily influenced by the first Zombieland movie.
I am also predisposed to hate flashback episodes, so that doesn't help, but overall I found it to be a very boring episode that didn't reveal anything about our characters we don't already know.
Ellie's queer identity is one of the driving factors of the second game, and the show has previously alluded to it very little, if at all.
So yeah it might take a little bit of time to pay off, but this is a narratively necessary episode.
got it, i will take your word for it. i'm open to the idea that this episode will make more sense in retrospect.
2. already mentioned, but doing a flashback episode on a week-to-week show when the previous episode had pedro pascal bleeding out is some primo TV bullshit. i know they aren't going to kill joel (yet?) but i'd much prefer to see ellie heroically save joel.
3. coupled with all that we have all this retro fan service for elder millenials, of which i am: malls, arcades, mortal kombat, etc. normally i'd happily lap this shit up, but only if it's in the confines of a great episode. kind of made me resent it even more.
4. as soon as they entered the mall, my wife said "so this is when ellie gets bit?". and if this is when ellie gets bit we know Riley is probably going to die as well (fwiw my wife enjoyed the episode and made sure to inform me i was alone in my critique).
5. i didn't need this story to know that ellie is chock full of abandonment issues and has a million little defenses to keep herself from caring about others. the previous episodes have laid this out well.
Ellie's not a hero. She's a scared, desperate teenage girl stuck in a world she doesn't understand.
It's not retro fan service if pop culture is literally stuck in 2003.
The basic layout of the episode (present-flashback-present) mirrors the pacing of the DLC, with some exceptions. The entire point is that Riley is at the front of Ellie's mind while she's desperately searching for what she needs to save Joel.
This isn't about Ellie being abandoned. It's about her abandoning other people. Or not abandoning them, as the case turns out to be.
to preface this question, i'm coming from a place of ignorance because i've never played the game, and while i've clocked a tremendous amount of time playing games, it's pretty much been just three games that i play. so i'm ignorant not only of Last of Us, but probably the type of game it is in general.
so i understand this episode was based on a DLC, and you say the basic layout of the episode mirrors the pacing of the DLC. is the DLC generally liked by fans? is it an engaging play through?
Post by itrainmonkeys on Feb 28, 2023 9:34:45 GMT -5
I'd say the DLC is liked generally. But you have to keep in mind it was after the full game so people really just wanted more TLOU content to play. I'm sure more would have liked even more focus on fighting over backstory. But you do get more action in the DLC (in the present day, anyway, when flashing back and forth)
Damn posty I thought the episode was underwhelming too but wanting Neil Druckmann tarred and feathered seems a little much
oooohhh ok this episode was written solely by Druckmann. i didn't realize that before. i don't really want him tarred and feathered but the dialogue differences between this and the other episodes are pretty jarring.
Post by 3post1jack1 on Feb 28, 2023 9:38:15 GMT -5
and i need to shut up about it and i will, i realize the train has left the being critical station and is headed towards the just me being a dick station. i do like when people like things and am glad many enjoyed this episode, but i'm fascinated when an episode of TV is so polarizing. i'm digging into Last of Us reddit for the first time and the differing opinions are stark.
and i need to shut up about it and i will, i realize the train has left the being critical station and is headed towards the just me being a dick station. i do like when people like things and am glad many enjoyed this episode, but i'm fascinated when an episode of TV is so polarizing. i'm digging into Last of Us reddit for the first time and the differing opinions are stark.
I find your criticisms valid. No need to hide complaints. We , who played the game, can def be more biased and again.....I've seen many people online pretty divides about this ep so you're not alone
Post by Jake Jortles on Feb 28, 2023 10:11:52 GMT -5
I thought it was pretty decent and not my least favorite ep.
Does seem like we are getting into a thing where in every other ep you just meet someone that they are trying to get you attached to even though you know they're donzo... in 5 cases now by the end of the ep.
Even while knowing where it was going I will admit that I was super on edge the entire time when they were in the mall after we had seen the zombie. Certain points I had to look away to avoid a hard attack from a huge jump scare. I'm surprised they didn't take advantage of that and you kinda hear the guy fumbling and bumbling through some clothes racks or whatever before coming into view in an un-scary way. Actually kinda happy about it I guess because they had me on a string.
I also thought it was weird that we didn't see the conclusion there?
I guess every ep can't end with a loved one shooting another loved one in the head.
And finally, idk why they are milking this Joel injury thing. I know he's not dying here even without ever playing the games. In the off chance that he did die in the next episode, it would not be Ned Stark's beheading. The fact that they've dragged it out would make it wildly unimpactful at this point compared to what it could have been if they actually tried to Ned Stark it. So you just know it's either not a big moment or the show is botching it's biggest moment (doubt).
3post1jack1 I kinda fucked with their relationship. I think the lack of chemistry you mentioned is just more teenage awkwardness and the look on Ellie's face after they kiss was great as if she gained some clarity after sorting through that awkwardness the whole time.
It's hard to criticize time capsule eps right now when Ep 3 was the best of the season by far. In my opinion when you are doing an ep that doesn't advance the plot much (Fly in Breaking Bad) you just have to knock it out of the park or you'll have to expect some impatience / criticism. So idk I like good flashback eps and don't prefer meh ones.
Post by man1cpixiedreamgirl on Feb 28, 2023 10:16:08 GMT -5
Echoing Jortles - it was very important we kept the age appropriate behavior for two girls - who are 14 and 17 - having a romantic moment. Like, for the love of god, let’s not have it for adult men to “enjoy”. Teenagers - real ones - don’t have chemistry.
and now that I think about it, even Tess & Joel don’t have like “chemistry”. It’s a dystopian world.
The hottest thing so far was the strawberry scene with Frank & bill, followed by the piano scene. And that’s because they had the safe space to make it!
I never played the game, and don't watch the previews for the upcoming episodes, but as soon as Riley showed up and wanted to show her something, I knew exactly where the episode was going. pretty good for building dramatic irony, but the tension dissipated (for me) as the episode went on. when they were at the victoria's secret my wife even said "it's not gonna happen til after they make out."
I thought Bella Ramsey did a great acting job as a girl with a crush. her facial expressions and side eyes at Riley were spot on. The mall set was pretty amazing to look at.
Overall though I thought the flashback was too long. everything in the bill/frank episode felt necessary and it was well-paced. some of the scenes here definitely felt like some CW-type fluff and i'd start to lose interest. pacing sorta dragged. overall I found the episode kind of boring.
other random thoughts: i was the most tense when they were dancing on the glass cases in the halloween store and I kept thinking "that seems really dumb" bella ramsey and storm reid sound like game of thrones character names. Imagine having to shoot your friend who has turned, and thinking you're next only to...wait and wait and it never comes? that anxiety has to be insane.
Post by Dave Maynar on Feb 28, 2023 13:15:47 GMT -5
One time, an article for a ranking of Succession episodes came up on my socials. I didn't read it bc I'm not quite caught up, but I did catch the byline which said that there's no bad episodes. Some are better than others though. I feel like the same thing applies for this show so far. I have liked every episode, but this one did fall a little flat for me. I really wanted to defend it more but recognized that my main feeling at the end of the episode was, "That's it?" Maybe it's finding out that the season is only nine episodes and the finale is short, but I felt like there could have been time better spent elsewhere even if it was more of an update on what was going on with Ellie and Joel. Part of me is probably also annoyed with the cliffhanger nature of "Will Joel be OK?" which I know the answer to obviously, but it appears even the non game players also feel 99.9999% sure of whether he is going to make it. For me, it feels like a trope (one that gets on my nerves especially) at this point where a show will act like someone with plot armor is in danger when everyone knows they're going to be fine.
I have seen A LOT of, "Of course Joel is going to be OK, Pedro Pascal has total plot armor!" talk from non-gamer friends of mine who are into the show, which is going to make the reaction to the events of Season 2/TLOU2 very interesting. People freaked over Ned Stark's beheading, and they didn't even get a full season to get to know him. It's going to be a real shock moment for so many viewers.
I have seen A LOT of, "Of course Joel is going to be OK, Pedro Pascal has total plot armor!" talk from non-gamer friends of mine who are into the show, which is going to make the reaction to the events of Season 2/TLOU2 very interesting. People freaked over Ned Stark's beheading, and they didn't even get a full season to get to know him. It's going to be a real shock moment for so many viewers.
Eagle-eyed fans may have uncovered Shannon Berry as Abby's actress. Druckmann follows her on Instagram, she looks like Abby, and is a pretty solid actress judging from her performance on The Wilds.
I loved Part II, but to make it really, really work, they need to deeply develop Abby, her motivations, her friends, etc. I hope we hear about her, or better yet see her, in the final episode of this season. Either way, I think Joel will last a bit longer than he does in the second game. I'd be shocked if they killed him before the middle of the season.
Eagle-eyed fans may have uncovered Shannon Berry as Abby's actress. Druckmann follows her on Instagram, she looks like Abby, and is a pretty solid actress judging from her performance on The Wilds.
I loved Part II, but to make it really, really work, they need to deeply develop Abby, her motivations, her friends, etc. I hope we hear about her, or better yet see her, in the final episode of this season. Either way, I think Joel will last a bit longer than he does in the second game. I'd be shocked if they killed him before the middle of the season.
Damn posty I thought the episode was underwhelming too but wanting Neil Druckmann tarred and feathered seems a little much
oooohhh ok this episode was written solely by Druckmann. i didn't realize that before. i don't really want him tarred and feathered but the dialogue differences between this and the other episodes are pretty jarring.
oh I was making a joke, I didn't notice that either
Imagine having to shoot your friend who has turned, and thinking you're next only to...wait and wait and it never comes? that anxiety has to be insane.
I think it's lame that me may only ever get to imagine it. Now that you wrote it out like that it makes me realized we were robbed of a unique on screen moment. Maybe that is still to come but i'd be surprised if they split the flashback across two episodes with 90% being in the first and 10% being in the second. But I guess it could still happen because I kinda expect to see Ellie meet with the rest of the fireflies on screen at some point.
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