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BTW, did everyone notice the hootin' and holler' (cheers, applause , boos, etc.) during the Fox debate. It was like the British Parliment. Is this a Fox thing or what?
I prefer when the audience is told to be quiet as this just delays answering, consumes scarce time and interferes with the debate. The debate is about the candidates opinions and I could care less what the audience thinks. But maybe that's just me.
Post by fiveleavesleft on May 16, 2007 21:09:41 GMT -5
i never said i was happy with all the executions, thats why i said that the big question is what exactly makes someone guilty enough to be executed, and you are telling me that i am playing God and therefore violating the commandment of not to worship false gods; your statement (if you mean what i think you mean) misinterprets that commandment because death penalties do exist in the same books of law that you are quoting from.
also anyone who is pro-choice is pro-abortion
and because you are not God you can't make the choice to kill what may be a human being, you better be pretty sure that its not a human being before killing it because there is that chance that it is and by killing it you are murdering (of course i would never treat someone who has had an abortion as a murderer because someone who kills a human that has already been born is 100% aware that it is a person).
Far too many absolutes in that for me to even address. Try to help your fellow human being rather than judge them. your heaven is not theirs, and for good reason. wwjd ? what would jerry do ? Bonnaroooooooooooooooooo.
Just because someone believes that abortion should remain legal does not mean that if a pregnant woman walks by they are gonna try and talk her into an abortion or believe that the only solution to an unwanted pregnancy is an abortion.
Pro choice means that there is just that... a choice.
i'm sorry that you thought i was judging someone, i wasn't.
I didn't mean that you were judging someone on this board.
But calling ANYONE who has an abortion a murderer is most certainly passing a judgement without knowing the situation. Is your god so absolute that he/she would rather you label a rape victim than comfort her ? Or, at least, try to understand her situation?
Or how about a 17 year old who grew up with no parents and lives with her grandmother? Now she's pregnant and a nervous wreck because she realizes that she doesn't have the resources, maturity, or ability to raise a child. Would your god prefer that you try to understand her pain and situation and help her in some small way ? Or better to slap a murderer label on her ?
What about the woman who lives in constant fear of her husband and has no voice. She knows that she wants to end the relationship, but her husband regularly beats her ass and also wants her to give him a son. How will the life of that child turn out ? Will you be there to help her, or will you be passing judgement on her without trying to understand her situation ? just another murderer ?
Pro is a word that comes from the Latin to be "in favor of", or "for" something. To call someone pro-abortion is to act like they somehow are joyous or happy to be in such a situation. It's apparent that you have not spent much/any time with suffering women. And if your god would have you burden these humans with your labels rather than exhibit compassion, then who am I to blow against the wind ?
I'm not saying you have to change your beliefs. I'm saying you ought to do something POSITIVE if you are gonna do it in god's name !
Let's let this bull$hit macho super christian holier than thou self righteousness die with Jerry Fallwell.
Last Edit: May 17, 2007 9:02:17 GMT -5 by snoochio - Back to Top
Post by oleander124 on May 17, 2007 9:08:34 GMT -5
fiveleavesleft said:
also anyone who is pro-choice is pro-abortion
I'm pro-choice, but definitely not pro-abortion. I have known people that have had abortions, and I know how hard of a choice it was for them. I don't even think those people are pro-abortion, but at least they had a choice and knew what was best for them.
I'm pro choice but I think that the biological father should have at least some input, or at the MINIMUM be notified..
A good friend of mine did not find out that his girlfriend had an abortion until 5 months after the fact. He wasn't happy. I know pregnancy isnt easy, but this guy would've raised the kid on his own if he could've.. and I think he wouldve done a damn fine job too.
As long as it isnt something done on a whim(which it is for some people, not most) I'm ok with it.
I'm pro choice but I think that the biological father should have at least some input, or at the MINIMUM be notified..
A good friend of mine did not find out that his girlfriend had an abortion until 5 months after the fact. He wasn't happy. I know pregnancy isnt easy, but this guy would've raised the kid on his own if he could've.. and I think he wouldve done a damn fine job too.
As long as it isnt something done on a whim(which it is for some people, not most) I'm ok with it.
I use to think this same thing after it happened to my brother but I don't completly agree anymore. I think the guy should be notified and involved in the decision but ultimately it is her decision. She is the one who has to carry the child and go through the process. It is her choice. No one should be able to make another person do something they don't want.
I'm pro choice but I think that the biological father should have at least some input, or at the MINIMUM be notified..
A good friend of mine did not find out that his girlfriend had an abortion until 5 months after the fact. He wasn't happy. I know pregnancy isnt easy, but this guy would've raised the kid on his own if he could've.. and I think he wouldve done a damn fine job too.
As long as it isnt something done on a whim(which it is for some people, not most) I'm ok with it.
I use to think this same thing after it happened to my brother but I don't completly agree anymore. I think the guy should be notified and involved in the decision but ultimately it is her decision. She is the one who has to carry the child and go through the process. It is her choice. No one should be able to make another person do something they don't want.
I agree with it ultimately being her choice but I do think that if you know who the biological father is(and it isnt a case of rape or some bullcrap like that..) he should be atleast notified and given an opportunity to participate in the decision process
Post by oleander124 on May 17, 2007 11:22:15 GMT -5
And what if the woman doens't want the child, but the man wants the child and says he will do it alone, so she ends up having the baby but he changes his mind. Does she have to pay child support?
^^ I would say the guy would have to sign something when the agreement took place that says she does not have to pay support.
I'm not sure exactly how the rape clause would work. If a woman files a police report claiming she was raped.. wouldn't that be enough? If someone falsely claimed it just to avoid telling the father, thats pretty low though.
As a guy... I would be absolutely furious if my child was aborted without at least a consultation.
^^^ I agree that lying about rape or not telling a guy is bad.
There are SOOOO many variables that can come up though...
A girl might not know 100% who the dad is the boyfriend/husband could be an abusive d*ck a woman could have 6 other kids and is in poverty but the husband is clueless incest no police report (for many reasons)
^^^ I agree that lying about rape or not telling a guy is bad.
There are SOOOO many variables that can come up though...
A girl might not know 100% who the dad is the boyfriend/husband could be an abusive d*ck a woman could have 6 other kids and is in poverty but the husband is clueless incest no police report (for many reasons)
etc. etc. etc.
I def. think that given any one of those variables consultation shouldn't be required except for the not knowing bit.. I think that while asking potentials to get tested may be embarrasing.. an abortion is a very serious thing, at least an attempt should be made to find out. If that doesn't work? no consultation. In the end it should be a joint decision by the woman and her doctor as to whether it should happen..
I know that it's not an option in many situations, but I have a ton of respect for a woman who chooses to give the baby up for adoption rather than have an abortion. Abortion should be the last option for women, not a method of birth control, which some women use it for........
But yeah, getting back to the candidates.......All the news organizations are making a big deal out of Guliani's big moment with McCain. But what he said is completely ridiculous. He was basically saying that we're justified in using whatever methods we have to (including all kinds of torture) to combat terrorism. And Romney thinks we should have double the number of detainees in GITMO. These guys are a bunch of clowns that pander to their redneck hick base. How bout a common sense approach. What?!?!? Common sense?!?!?! That's crazy liberal leftist commie talk. I mean who believes this garbage? I guess 29% of America does, cause that's Bush's approval numbers at the moment.
I'm just sick and tired of the need for the republican candidates to appeal to that far right base.. whats wrong with center right? The second a republican shows some slightly left views he/she is absolutely 'shunned' by the far right
And I'm sorry but if a candidate comes out and says they don't believe in evolution... theres no freaking way they're getting my vote.
Post by fiveleavesleft on May 17, 2007 17:46:53 GMT -5
i stand corrected on the pro-choice pro-abortion statement.
however, i never said that anyone who has an abortion is a murderer. I said that if the fetus is a human and someone has an abortion then they are a murderer. Unless you define murder differently than I do (i define it as killing a fellow human being) then i wasn't calling people that have abortions murderers. what i was saying was that there is a possibility that the fetus is a human being and anyone having an abortion should be aware that if it is a human then they are murdering, it may be or it may not be there really isnt any 100% concrete evidence either way.
Post by fiveleavesleft on May 17, 2007 17:58:41 GMT -5
snoochio said:
fiveleavesleft said:
i'm sorry that you thought i was judging someone, i wasn't.
I'm not saying you have to change your beliefs. I'm saying you ought to do something POSITIVE if you are gonna do it in god's name !
Let's let this bull$hit macho super christian holier than thou self righteousness die with Jerry Fallwell.
the only times i refered to God was when i was refering to a previous posts of someone else accusing me of playing God. and if that second phrase is refering to me as the bullshit macho super christian, then i resent the fact that you are presupposing that i am the jerry fallwell type christian.
You're right. I jumped the gun and got got defensive. I went back and re-read everything and though, we have entirely different beliefs on this(and probably many other issues), i was wrong to make the assumption that you were coming from the moral majority perspective.
Post by fiveleavesleft on May 17, 2007 22:59:18 GMT -5
cheers, yea its all right; its hard to tell what kind of person certain christians are because we're so divided. but i think southern baptists currently hold the majority in the united states right now (i'm not one).
